The Debt.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It is football, an entirely different world. If they were judged by financial results purely it would be a different ball game.

Whatever Freedman's expenditure, I keep thinking back to that post-relegation summer when we gave Knight, Ricketts and Andrews - all unemployed thirtysomethings - and Matt Mills - clearly unwanted at Leicester - contracts of two and three years. Regrets? We've got a few.

Welcome back BWFCi and all the best.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Some interesting points from the BBC coverage, which someone did post earlier but hasn't been commented upon.

Financial don doth say:
"While they have made some really good savings in their cost base, and I think they should be applauded for the way they've managed the transition from Premier League to Championship with player costs, they've not been able to reduce those by an equivalent amount. And, because of that, they have losses for the period standing at around £30m, which is not too clever.
"The one figure that stands out is the player trading loss, in which they've lost another £20m. That is partly because they would have had to get rid of players who had relegation clauses or players they did not think were up to the standard they needed, so there would have been compensation agreements."

Turnover: £28.5m - down from £58.5m
Broadcast revenue: £19m - down from £42m
Gate receipts: £3.8m - down from £5.7m
Advertising revenue: £1.4m - down from [sic - BBC boxout doesn't say]
Net debt: £163.8m, of which £151.3m is owed to the owner

[Bijou Bob]

Judge it any way you like bwfci, financial, results on the pitch, development, investment, future potential. Tell me where the positives are?!

[Hoboh]

Judge it any way you like bwfci, financial, results on the pitch, development, investment, future potential. Tell me where the positives are?!

We ain't bankrupt yet

[mrplow]

Ah, so spending the last four years at work overseeing a slump in business that led your company to the edge of an abyss is competent is it? I suspect had that been you or I, our employers would see it somewhat differently.

hmmmm... often said - but then I doubt your company or BWFCI's relies on a bogroll millionaire to pump millions in every time you want to buy stock or equipment...

But that's how businesses work. If you want to spend money you go to your shareholders or investors, or the bank, or find another way of raising funds. I know everyone says that football is 'different', but that's no reason to just ignore the basic principles of running a business.

[thebish]

Judge it any way you like bwfci, financial, results on the pitch, development, investment, future potential. Tell me where the positives are?!

i think the positives are 10 years in the premiership and trips to europe... we've had some ace times!

[BWFC_Insane]

Judge it any way you like bwfci, financial, results on the pitch, development, investment, future potential. Tell me where the positives are?!

Tell me what the alternatives were? We either kept our powder dry and effectively settled for sitting where we could afford in the food chain and didn't enjoy watching the likes of Okocha, Anelka, etc etc and 11 years in the premiership, or we eventually end up where we are. As I say FFP is what has hurt us most and possibly couldn't have been foreseen or reasonably expected to when the decisions on spending and wage bills were made.

Of course we can pinpoint mistakes. The biggest one for me is that when the weather was fair and we had 4 seasons in the top 8, we did not create a proper legacy in a fruitful and productive academy. We might have paid it lip service but the results have proven otherwise. Who is responsible for that I'm not sure. I also suspect it is easier to want it, than it is to achieve it, especially in this part of the country.

[LeverEnd]

Judge it any way you like bwfci, financial, results on the pitch, development, investment, future potential. Tell me where the positives are?!

Tell me what the alternatives were? We either kept our powder dry and effectively settled for sitting where we could afford in the food chain and didn't enjoy watching the likes of Okocha, Anelka, etc etc and 11 years in the premiership, or we eventually end up where we are. As I say FFP is what has hurt us most and possibly couldn't have been foreseen or reasonably expected to when the decisions on spending and wage bills were made.

Of course we can pinpoint mistakes. The biggest one for me is that when the weather was fair and we had 4 seasons in the top 8, we did not create a proper legacy in a fruitful and productive academy. We might have paid it lip service but the results have proven otherwise. Who is responsible for that I'm not sure. I also suspect it is easier to want it, than it is to achieve it, especially in this part of the country.

This the bit where the creating a fantastic academy plan falls down. Too many big Prem clubs who have even better academies and pick up all the best talent. Our academy is just a breeding ground for the lower leagues.

[BWFC_Insane]

Judge it any way you like bwfci, financial, results on the pitch, development, investment, future potential. Tell me where the positives are?!

Tell me what the alternatives were? We either kept our powder dry and effectively settled for sitting where we could afford in the food chain and didn't enjoy watching the likes of Okocha, Anelka, etc etc and 11 years in the premiership, or we eventually end up where we are. As I say FFP is what has hurt us most and possibly couldn't have been foreseen or reasonably expected to when the decisions on spending and wage bills were made.

Of course we can pinpoint mistakes. The biggest one for me is that when the weather was fair and we had 4 seasons in the top 8, we did not create a proper legacy in a fruitful and productive academy. We might have paid it lip service but the results have proven otherwise. Who is responsible for that I'm not sure. I also suspect it is easier to want it, than it is to achieve it, especially in this part of the country.

This the bit where the creating a fantastic academy plan falls down. Too many big Prem clubs who have even better academies and pick up all the best talent. Our academy is just a breeding ground for the lower leagues.

May be true. But how else are we supposed to compete in the new FFP world, with our debts and losses? There isn't an answer, other than no matter how you look at it, we can't.

[LeverEnd]

Concentrate on 18-21 year olds cast off by the big boys, the ones that fall between the academy and the first team. Feed off scraps in other words. People like Dawson and Rob Hall, invest in them. Only problem is, they're hitting big wages before they've even done anything.

[Il Pirate]

I may sound too positive; but we ain't as skint as Man U............................

[BWFC_Insane]

Concentrate on 18-21 year olds cast off by the big boys, the ones that fall between the academy and the first team. Feed off scraps in other words. People like Dawson and Rob Hall, invest in them. Only problem is, they're hitting big wages before they've even done anything.

Yep, we can't afford that as those players are now already on high wages.

Unless we happen to strike gold on the next Gareth Bale I don't see a way.

[LeverEnd]

Damn. We're fooked. Happy New year! It's going to be a miserable one for BWFC I fear.

[bwfcdan94]

Judge it any way you like bwfci, financial, results on the pitch, development, investment, future potential. Tell me where the positives are?!

i think the positives are 10 years in the premiership and trips to europe... we've had some ace times!

I am actually enjoying the awaydays in the championship as well!

[Lord Kangana]

only about 14 mill of it is owed to other people, and eddie d. wud have to wait 10 years for his money if he wanted it back tomorrow. as someone previously said, its like owing money to your mam.

#champ15ons

You see, I have a great deal of an issue with this.

1) What guarantee do we have that E Davies doesn't want his money back? Now, next year, next decade?

2) If he does, how the f*ck are we meant to pay it? Its all very well saying ten years, but even if by some miracle we could somehow push the pause button on the growth of the debt (really? Can we?) we'd have to make a profit of £16.3m in each of our next ten seasons just to service this hypothetical debt. Its The Magic Faraway Tree to even contemplate that as an option.

Because, unless I missed it, whatever else has been said, I'm sure I didn't hear anyone actually say "no worries, we'll just write off the debt". No matter what I'm meant to read between whichever accounting lines.

[jaffka]

I don't think that Phil and Eddie are short of a bob or two from this and whatever happens I don't think that they will ever have to shop in Aldi.

[LeverEnd]

only about 14 mill of it is owed to other people, and eddie d. wud have to wait 10 years for his money if he wanted it back tomorrow. as someone previously said, its like owing money to your mam.

#champ15ons

You see, I have a great deal of an issue with this.

1) What guarantee do we have that E Davies doesn't want his money back? Now, next year, next decade?

2) If he does, how the f*ck are we meant to pay it? Its all very well saying ten years, but even if by some miracle we could somehow push the pause button on the growth of the debt (really? Can we?) we'd have to make a profit of £16.3m in each of our next ten seasons just to service this hypothetical debt. Its The Magic Faraway Tree to even contemplate that as an option.

Because, unless I missed it, whatever else has been said, I'm sure I didn't hear anyone actually say "no worries, we'll just write off the debt". No matter what I'm meant to read between whichever accounting lines.

In all likelihood he'll get little or none of that capital back, and he must realise this. The 10 year thing was only recently put into place, so I don't think we have anything to worry about from ED any time soon. It's the FFP rules that are screwing us over, but we'll have no Prem contracts left after this summer so that's when the reset button gets pressed I suppose.

[gizmothevoomer]

When Phil Garside and BSA joined the club in 1999 we were in the lower have of the then First division, so as a club we are around the same place we were in 1999 in the football pyramid.

The overwhelming difference is our debt has gone up from approx 20 Million in 1999 to 163 Million today which even allowing from inflation is a massive increase, the man who has overseen and authorised this is Phil Garside, surely this is the man who should go. Interestingly our debt in 2007 when BSA left had risen to 43 Million, so in six years we have lost 20 Million a year on average.

Even allowing for as many things as being written off as possible year so as not to impact us next year in Financial fair play. I would suggest the time is to look for a new chairman before a new manager.

[gcah2006]

I can't tell you how pleased I am the owners at my club (Leicester) went debt-to-equity and wiped everything away. It made it a lovely Christmas for us and we can look forward to a promising 2014.

I don't envy your position in the slightest.

You've got previous for walking away and not paying your creditors, haven't you?

Not quite accurate - Gary Lineker and Emile Heskey headed a consortium to pay up some of the debt we accrued. But then, it was £30m and not £160m.

Although, if you mean we got promoted while having an over-budget wage bill... then yes, we did.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I can't tell you how pleased I am the owners at my club (Leicester) went debt-to-equity and wiped everything away. It made it a lovely Christmas for us and we can look forward to a promising 2014.

I don't envy your position in the slightest.

You've got previous for walking away and not paying your creditors, haven't you?

Not quite accurate - Gary Lineker and Emile Heskey headed a consortium to pay up some of the debt we accrued. But then, it was £30m and not £160m.

Although, if you mean we got promoted while having an over-budget wage bill... then yes, we did.

How much, as a percentage, was "some" of the debt?