The Debt.

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Bruce Rioja
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:13 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:So, in consequence I declare the person who seriously suggested this as a solution to be...wait for it...a knob. (I'm not putting the boot in Bruce, but come on get with me on this!).
I think he may well wish to review his position on this one, Spotty, yes. ;)
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Re: The Debt.

Post by jaffka » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:14 pm

I wonder if he wrote that letter to the club suggesting this.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:16 pm

jaffka wrote:I wonder if he wrote that letter to the club suggesting this.
I hope so, just in case Eddie hasn't spotted the maths. Would hate Eddie not to notice.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by bobo the clown » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:31 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:
bobo the clown wrote:I know a couple of people who, having driven up huge personal debt, went into personal bankruptcy and more or less wrote off their debts. It meant fckg up their credit rating, but also putting any assets they had out of their control. In the cases I know there was lawyer supported fancy-footwork with house ownership and car etc.

It was quite a craze 6 or 7 years ago. In fact it's hard, and dubious and all too often the person seems to rebuild the debt in due course.

I think some simple-thinking people see this as an option for a football blub. We've seen Leeds, Leicester, Derby, Bristol City and many others do this over the years. Well ... first of all the FA/FL etc. have made that harder to do. It also means your assets get raided and you get bottom book for what you have.

We can't do this and keep Euxton, the ground, the offices, the hotel, the Middlebrook assets. The money raised goes to the creditors, players, taxman.

I tried to point this out, above, and yet it's not going in.

Further, people owed money after assets are sold only get x in the £. So local Painters and Decorators, News Vendors, Carpet Companies, Cleaners etc., etc. all get thoroughly ripped off.
Apart from all that, any downsides we should be aware of at all?
We lose 10 points .... 20 points if we do it again. We can't buy players until we're out of administration, players on contract can walk if we create a new entity. All sorts of ne'er-do-wells try to muscle in.

Bury and Wigan fans get to laugh at us.

Apart from those, no, it's generally pain-free.


Oh, & any new owner could decide we play in red and we change our name to "Horwich United".
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: The Debt.

Post by Izual_Rebirth » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:08 pm

Do people honestly think at this stage we can avoid administration? If people legit think it's possible we can recover I will enjoy bringing this thread up in 2 or 3 years time when all hell breaks loose. It's a slow painful death. No one wants to admit it and everyone wants to bury there heads in the sand.

The reason I mention it is not because it's an easy get out of jail free card. The reason I mention it is because we're already too far gone and I'd rather the s*** hit the fan today and we can get on with rebuilding the club rather than suffer the same embarrassment teams like Portsmouth have over the years of it dragging on and on and on and one.
Last edited by Izual_Rebirth on Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by jaffka » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:09 pm

Izual_Rebirth wrote:Do people honestly think at this stage we can avoid administration? If people legit think it's possible we can recover I will enjoy bringing this thread up in 2 or 3 years time when all hell breaks loose. It's a slow painful death. No one wants to admit it and everyone wants to bury there heads in the sand.

So be it.
Have you actually read any of the posts?

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Izual_Rebirth » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:11 pm

jaffka wrote:
Izual_Rebirth wrote:Do people honestly think at this stage we can avoid administration? If people legit think it's possible we can recover I will enjoy bringing this thread up in 2 or 3 years time when all hell breaks loose. It's a slow painful death. No one wants to admit it and everyone wants to bury there heads in the sand.

So be it.
Have you actually read any of the posts?
You caught me just as I was editing my post.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Lord Kangana » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:13 pm

But not their.
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Re: The Debt.

Post by bobo the clown » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:14 pm

jaffka wrote:
Izual_Rebirth wrote:Do people honestly think at this stage we can avoid administration? If people legit think it's possible we can recover I will enjoy bringing this thread up in 2 or 3 years time when all hell breaks loose. It's a slow painful death. No one wants to admit it and everyone wants to bury there heads in the sand.

So be it.
Have you actually read any of the posts?
bobo the clown wrote:I tried to point this out, above, and yet it's not going in.
Maybe I should have been plainer ?!?1
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
"I understand you are a very good footballer" ... "I try".

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Re: The Debt.

Post by jaffka » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:32 pm

bobo the clown wrote:
jaffka wrote:
Izual_Rebirth wrote:Do people honestly think at this stage we can avoid administration? If people legit think it's possible we can recover I will enjoy bringing this thread up in 2 or 3 years time when all hell breaks loose. It's a slow painful death. No one wants to admit it and everyone wants to bury there heads in the sand.

So be it.
Have you actually read any of the posts?
bobo the clown wrote:I tried to point this out, above, and yet it's not going in.
Maybe I should have been plainer ?!?1
It was very clear to me.

Then when a new poster appears with such a direct purpose and not involved in any other debate, I always wonder about their legitimacy.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Prufrock » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:03 am

I'm glad someone got there!

A peculiar wind-up though, pretending to be an idiot regarding the administration of a football club.
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Re: The Debt.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:08 am

We won't be going into administration, what would Eddie do? Strike a deal for one of his companies to pay another one £1 in every 5?

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Re: The Debt.

Post by bobo the clown » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:We won't be going into administration, what would Eddie do? Strike a deal for one of his companies to pay another one £1 in every 5?
mmmmmmm ....... now there's an idea.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
"I understand you are a very good footballer" ... "I try".

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:13 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
bobo the clown wrote:Further, people owed money after assets are sold only get x in the £. So local Painters and Decorators, News Vendors, Carpet Companies, Cleaners etc., etc. all get thoroughly ripped off.
Indeed - I remember reading how when Portsmouth first went bust, whilst the multi-millionaire footballer Sol Campbell was digging his heels in over £1m worth of image rights, the newsagent that supplied the club's papers was owed about £4K. The c*nts.
"Football creditors" get preference. So, as David Conn has pointed out, St. John's get nowt they're owed.
Izual_Rebirth wrote:I will enjoy bringing this thread up in 2 or 3 years time when all hell breaks loose. It's a slow painful death.
I've sometimes suspected some posters of wanting us to lose a game in order to be proved right. You've upped the ante significantly there, by wanting our club to die a slow painful death. Nice.

"Would you rather be right or be happy?"

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Izual_Rebirth » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:22 pm

I'm just being realistic and not burying my head in the sand.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by a1 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:18 pm

as someone said about 4 post ago, he's never going to bankrupt a business that he owns 90% of the debts of on behalf of another business which he also owns.

he must do this for a reason, i think its the same income tax dodge that amazon does , were they intentionally make next to no profit, by buying companies and stuff.

if they (bolton) go bankrupt , its because these 'fair play' rules are designed (intentionally or not) to keep small teams small (because i think theyre turnover or profit based) . if they backdated any adminstration penalties to ,say, the mid 70s , then that would be fairer. but it seems if you did it before about 2009 , you've got away scott free.

if the supers got bought by a conglomerate , my guess is theyd be alright.

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Re: The Debt.

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:00 am

I can see plenty reasons why you'd pay yourself 10p in the pound if you were paying everyone else 10p in the pound. All things being equal. Which they aren't of course.
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Re: The Debt.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:57 am

a1 wrote:as someone said about 4 post ago, he's never going to bankrupt a business that he owns 90% of the debts of on behalf of another business which he also owns.

he must do this for a reason, i think its the same income tax dodge that amazon does , were they intentionally make next to no profit, by buying companies and stuff.

if they (bolton) go bankrupt , its because these 'fair play' rules are designed (intentionally or not) to keep small teams small (because i think theyre turnover or profit based) . if they backdated any adminstration penalties to ,say, the mid 70s , then that would be fairer. but it seems if you did it before about 2009 , you've got away scott free.

if the supers got bought by a conglomerate , my guess is theyd be alright.
That is absolutely on the money. FFP stinks, it is an absolutely awful and mis-conceived idea that is and will hurt clubs like us disproportionately and mean that effectively you are "kept in your box".

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Re: The Debt.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:05 am

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/109 ... d_company/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps someone with more knowledge of company structure and the implications of this would like to comment?

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Re: The Debt.

Post by jaffka » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:40 am

The obvious one is that a limited company can be owned by one person, therefore making that company easier to sell.

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