Grand my arse, up the Whites! - Brighton (H) 15/3/14

[Worthy4England]

I'm afraid the days when you just pile people into the box and knock balls in from all angles are gone in football. Second half showed that. Brighton were too clever too good in possession and you have to match if not better those sides in the centre of midfield. That means putting players in there who can win the ball and then ideally ones who can use it.

I shall add this to the lengthening list of "gone are the days" quotes.

At the minute, I have on the list.

1) decent signings from abroad, or anywhere else, because footballers don't exist anymore.
2) centre forwards who can head and hold up a ball and score. We need more N'gog's, so we can have 6 in midfield, which means there's no fcuker in the box anyhow.
3) Any sort of forward, because Spain managed without for a game.

I think we rather over complicate the game these days. Gone are the days when a simple game was, well, simple.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm afraid the days when you just pile people into the box and knock balls in from all angles are gone in football. Second half showed that. Brighton were too clever too good in possession and you have to match if not better those sides in the centre of midfield. That means putting players in there who can win the ball and then ideally ones who can use it.

I shall add this to the lengthening list of "gone are the days" quotes.

At the minute, I have on the list.

1) decent signings from abroad, or anywhere else, because footballers don't exist anymore.
2) centre forwards who can head and hold up a ball and score. We need more N'gog's, so we can have 6 in midfield, which means there's no fcuker in the box anyhow.
3) Any sort of forward, because Spain managed without for a game.

I think we rather over complicate the game these days. Gone are the days when a simple game was, well, simple.

But the game has changed. Two teams won away from home today for example and there was barely a cross between them.

Brighton were too good in midfield when we tried to play with 2 wingers yesterday.

You have to win the midfield battle first and foremost now, then you bring your creative players in and hope they can produce some goals.

[bobo the clown]

Trotter's a winger ??????

[BWFC_Insane]

Trotter's a winger ??????

No but Hall and LCY are.....

[bobo the clown]

Trotter's a winger ??????

No but Hall and LCY are.....

Phew.

[Hoboh]

I'm afraid the days when you just pile people into the box and knock balls in from all angles are gone in football. Second half showed that. Brighton were too clever too good in possession and you have to match if not better those sides in the centre of midfield. That means putting players in there who can win the ball and then ideally ones who can use it.

I shall add this to the lengthening list of "gone are the days" quotes.

At the minute, I have on the list.

1) decent signings from abroad, or anywhere else, because footballers don't exist anymore.
2) centre forwards who can head and hold up a ball and score. We need more N'gog's, so we can have 6 in midfield, which means there's no fcuker in the box anyhow.
3) Any sort of forward, because Spain managed without for a game.

I think we rather over complicate the game these days. Gone are the days when a simple game was, well, simple.

But the game has changed. Two teams won away from home today for example and there was barely a cross between them.

Brighton were too good in midfield when we tried to play with 2 wingers yesterday.

You have to win the midfield battle first and foremost now, then you bring your creative players in and hope they can produce some goals.

So Big Sam style
a plan feckin' B
You play over the top of them!

That is assuming you have the brain to compute a plan B and have players attuned to carrying it out.

[StaffsTrotter]

funny old game

we forced their keeper to make a couple of good saves and had what now seems to have been a good goal chalked off. they didn't really work Boggers but scored a couple of goals. But notwithstanding it didn't feel like we deserved anything. We started brightly but quickle fizzled out and had a decent spell just before the ruled out goal, but other than that, it was dirge. One team had a progressive pattern to their play, one didn't.

Was this really the same team that had performed with such attacking intensity and movement as against Blackburn. No it clearly wasn't as the educated one had decided to teach us another lesson. Is it the manager, is it the system, is it the players, is it the opposition, is it the fans, is it the weather. Point is the kind of performance has happened more times with this mon in charge than not. Talking with all the S-T holders around me yesterday about renewal and the club need to be worried.

[Bruce Rioja]

I'd have played Danns instead of Trotter. But I think saying that is the reason we lost is stretching it. We played ok.

We did indeed play OK, and 0-2 is harsh. However, we'd have created more chances had he not picked a, frankly, fecking ridiculous midfield to which he then added the worthless Hall rather than Danns. I posted on here early on in Coyle's tenure that my friend that used to play at left back for us told me that Coyle's stubbornness would be his undoing. Goodness me, if Coyle was stubborn then the words simply don't exist to describe Freedman.

[SOTWA]

Went to the match yesterday and was really encouraged by our start, until we suffered the scabbiest goal in the world, or a brilliant finish? As for the rest of the first half? Some excellent football bringing out three brilliant saves (sign that keeper up!)
I'm pretty sure Freedman had just told the team at halftime that he'd just received a text that his pet cat twiddles had just died after a freak letter box/cat flap mix up, because they all came out a different team, almost depressed and lost.
The only positive for me was Hutton's performance. Always positive and wanting to attack that right flank (well he had to, Lee certainly wasn't)

And whoever keeps texting Bogman, telling him his left bollock will explode if he leaves his six yard area, can you please stop! This isn't headers and volleys!

[Worthy4England]

I'm afraid the days when you just pile people into the box and knock balls in from all angles are gone in football. Second half showed that. Brighton were too clever too good in possession and you have to match if not better those sides in the centre of midfield. That means putting players in there who can win the ball and then ideally ones who can use it.

I shall add this to the lengthening list of "gone are the days" quotes.

At the minute, I have on the list.

1) decent signings from abroad, or anywhere else, because footballers don't exist anymore.
2) centre forwards who can head and hold up a ball and score. We need more N'gog's, so we can have 6 in midfield, which means there's no fcuker in the box anyhow.
3) Any sort of forward, because Spain managed without for a game.

I think we rather over complicate the game these days. Gone are the days when a simple game was, well, simple.

But the game has changed. Two teams won away from home today for example and there was barely a cross between them.

Brighton were too good in midfield when we tried to play with 2 wingers yesterday.

You have to win the midfield battle first and foremost now, then you bring your creative players in and hope they can produce some goals.

I understand, you can't win unless at some point you have the ball, but similar to the 451 v 442 debate, you also have to play to your players strengths. Watching a team with two 20m footballers up front, and pointing to the fact that those two 20m footballers approach it differently is hardly shocking. It doesn't mean every team can do that, coz they don't have that talent available. If you stop applying what Barca, can do to Bolton, coz we don't go to the same shops, it'll help some.

[LeverEnd]

Our own Tony Coffey was quoted on GMR saying that one of Freedman's problems is that he likes to think he's clever and has a view that he makes decisions that confuse or flabbergast fans almost so when it goes right (IF) he can swagger along saying "see what my greater knowledge does".

I can sympathise with Coffey's opinion. That's Freedman's reason for playing Trotter before Danns maybe. And then, once that fails bringing Hall on rather than Danns. An almost Megson-like "I know better".

I missed yesterday's game, but generally I agree completely. I think he has a plan, sticks to it and determined to prove it right even when all the signs suggest otherwise. That plan is based on caution and negativity in my view, and always will be.
This excerpt from the BN report summed it up.

Freedman has warned that this could be a game of chess – and his prediction was clearly right from the off. He had altered the shape of his side to mirror that of Brighton, with Joe Mason playing a deeper role, with mixed results.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... 2/?ref=mac
The same Joe mason who had played so brilliantly alongside the equally brilliant Juke. Like Jugs says, he's reverted to type.

I heard someone on the radio talking about Karanka and how he's come in and tried to force a system on the Boro players without taking into account their capabilities. The interviewee (some ex pro, can't remember) said that you have to play to the strengths of your players and work with what you've got, or you'll confuse the hell out of them. Dougie is the same. Sooner we're rid the better, and my view on that didn't waver slightly during recent victories. I'll happily accept I'm wrong if he turns it round but I don't expect to have to.

We played a conventional 4-4-2 second half and Brighton dominated midfield.

People wanted 2 up front, he does it, it works everyone says it is because it is playing 2 up front. Then it doesn't work and it is down to some other tactical issue.

Fact is we could easily have won yesterday. Their keeper made some great saves, we had a goal wrongly disallowed and a free kick clipped the bar.

They had 3 chances and scored 2 goals. They are a very well organised side who keep clean sheets a lot.

On another day a different story but he brought a winger in for a central midfield player so if anything it was a more attacking set up than in previous games.

I'm afraid the days when you just pile people into the box and knock balls in from all angles are gone in football. Second half showed that. Brighton were too clever too good in possession and you have to match if not better those sides in the centre of midfield. That means putting players in there who can win the ball and then ideally ones who can use it.

Well like I said, wasn't at the game, but did Mason play a withdrawn role? Did Dougie change a winning team and formation because he overanalyses the opposition? That was what that quote from the report suggested to me and is one of several things that has annoyed me about him this season.
I would never advocate playing 4-4-2 with CYL and Hall on the wings, I would prefer to see as close as possible to the team that spanked Blackburn with CYL as an admittedly inadequate stand-in for Mavies. And an attitude that says, we're going to have a go at you, let's see what you've got. And if it's better than what we've got then fair enough. Maybe I'm a naïve know nowt romantic!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Maybe I'm a naïve know nowt romantic!

Those days are gone now dontcha know

[Bruno3]

Just like to comment that Brighton are soooooo boring to watch - side ways, backwards. across he back four, back to keeper, out to full back, slightly forwards and repeat.... If it hadn't been for their keeper we could have been 4-1 up at half time. Not saying I agree with the team selection but we were well in it until half time. Seemed like in the second half we had so many chances (Trotter's miserable effort being the best) that didn't go in we just didn't believe it was going to happen and heads went down.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm afraid the days when you just pile people into the box and knock balls in from all angles are gone in football. Second half showed that. Brighton were too clever too good in possession and you have to match if not better those sides in the centre of midfield. That means putting players in there who can win the ball and then ideally ones who can use it.

I shall add this to the lengthening list of "gone are the days" quotes.

At the minute, I have on the list.

1) decent signings from abroad, or anywhere else, because footballers don't exist anymore.
2) centre forwards who can head and hold up a ball and score. We need more N'gog's, so we can have 6 in midfield, which means there's no fcuker in the box anyhow.
3) Any sort of forward, because Spain managed without for a game.

I think we rather over complicate the game these days. Gone are the days when a simple game was, well, simple.

But the game has changed. Two teams won away from home today for example and there was barely a cross between them.

Brighton were too good in midfield when we tried to play with 2 wingers yesterday.

You have to win the midfield battle first and foremost now, then you bring your creative players in and hope they can produce some goals.

I understand, you can't win unless at some point you have the ball, but similar to the 451 v 442 debate, you also have to play to your players strengths. Watching a team with two 20m footballers up front, and pointing to the fact that those two 20m footballers approach it differently is hardly shocking. It doesn't mean every team can do that, coz they don't have that talent available. If you stop applying what Barca, can do to Bolton, coz we don't go to the same shops, it'll help some.

But what are our strengths? I think we have a good target in Jutkiewicz up front and a willing runner in Mason. Spearing and Medo are pretty solid together in midfield so long as they aren't left as a two on their own ala second half on Saturday.

I think the shape we started with was the same as against Blackburn. But LCY is no Mark Davies. And yes Danns should have been in for Trotter who looks lost in the top of a diamond.

But beyond that I think first half we played to our strengths, peppered their goal with shots and were a bit unlucky to not be in the lead let alone 1-0 down but it happens.

I'd agree second half, with two wide players leaving Spearing and Medo exposed in midfield we very much did not play to our strengths apart from the early part before Hall came on. I guess Freedman gambled and it didn't pay off.

EDIT: And Freedman himself admits he should have played Danns instead of Trotter....

Freedman held up his hands after the final whistle but says January signing Trotter will recover from a difficult day.

“Everyone has a bad day at the office,” he said.

“We’d asked him to do a role similar to Dannsy and I’ve got to look at myself for that, to be honest.

[Bruce Rioja]

Right - so, let me get this right, he asked the most immobile player on earth to play like the actual human being that he decided not to play? The man's a complete fecking imbecile.

[boltonboris]

Yeah, but it's okay, because he held his hands up..

[bobo the clown]

I'm unsure whether he's more of a fckg numbwit, or less by admitting that was a stupid selection.

It's not like it was the first time he's played Trotter in preference to Danns. He did it from the moment he signed the useless lump.

Plus .... when he realised he'd made a mistake (a realisation that the fans in the stands made the moment is was announced, I might add) did he bring Danns on in place of Trotter ? Nope ... he brought Hall on. So he DIDN'T realise what he'd done. Again, his own quotes condemn him.


It reminded me of all those times Coyle didn't pick Muamba when it was clear as day that was what was needed.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm unsure whether he's more of a fckg numbwit, or less by admitting that was a stupid selection.

It's not like it was the first time he's played Trotter in preference to Danns. He did it from the moment he signed the useless lump.

Plus .... when he realised he'd made a mistake (a realisation that the fans in the stands made the moment is was announced, I might add) did he bring Danns on in place of Trotter ? Nope ... he brought Hall on. So he DIDN'T realise what he'd done. Again, his own quotes condemn him.


It reminded me of all those times Coyle didn't pick Muamba when it was clear as day that was what was needed.

See it isn't the same thing at all in my view. We were three quarters of a way through a season where we consistently got overrun in midfield and Muamba was continually left out or taken off in tight games and it allowed the opposition too much space and time and we ended up losing. It wasn't even about Muamba. It was about the way we played and the naivety we were plagued with. Leaving out our best midfield stopper was just the symptom of the problem.

But that was only Trotter's 3rd start since being here and his first at the top of a midfield 4 diamond, previously he played in a midfield 5. So yes it wasn't very good. But it isn't close to being the same sort of issue. And as much as I like Danns and think he is a good trier with decent ability he isn't close to being the difference between losing 2-0 and not losing 2-0.....

[boltonboris]

He could be the difference at 0-0 or 1-0 though.. Which is pretty bloody important.

[Harry Genshaw]

To sum up;

We told Dougie that Knight was crap. He made him captain
We told him that Ngog was worse. He insisted he was an excellent player in which to build his team around.
We all could have told him that Danns is better than Trotter.

I thought he was supposed to be educating us?