My Way...

[thebish]

I just wish he knew what "his way" was. Then he wouldn''t be such a contradictory b'stard.

yes, clowny-man - you keep trotting out this "contradictory" charge - like Blair and his cronies endlessly repeating soundbites in the belief that the more it is repeated the more it is true...

yet... I don't believe I have ever spotted you produce any contradictory quotes with their surrounding context to stack up this theory of yours... I submit that it is bollox and that he is no more "contradictory" than you or me or any other manager or bloke down the pub you care to mention...

[thebish]

open post to thebish...
Did you ever get around to reading my article? I think, when I asked, at the time, life was faaaaaaaaaaaar too tedious to contemplate reading stuff. Did you change your mind (Sorry TD for barging in on your article thread).

nahhh. nahhhh.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

open post to thebish...
Did you ever get around to reading my article? I think, when I asked, at the time, life was faaaaaaaaaaaar too tedious to contemplate reading stuff. Did you change your mind (Sorry TD for barging in on your article thread).

nahhh. nahhhh.

That's not good enough. Read the fcker.

[BWFC_Insane]

. your article seems to be suggesting that he should listen to the fans - and (presumably) do it their way instead (your final paragraph)... I just don't know how on earth that would work... (which was why I asked!)

"my way or the highway" (as you put it) far from "never really worked" - has worked plenty of times - Wenger, Ferguson, Mourinho.. in fact - is that not a pretty common characteristic of most highly successful managers?

Simply put, I'm not suggesting the fans know more than a football manager (Lord forbid that to be true). By saying Dougie should listen to them I'm indicating there is some sense being offered by some of their views and he should maybe allow the truth of some of it. If you've been following the Trotter threads you'll know exactly what the views are regarding selection of method and team set up. The article was written (as I've stated a couple of times) not as a thread topic, but mainly as a midweek fill in and to highlight our esteemed manager's seeming ability to ignore any fan opinion and possibly that of the players too in his selections. "My way or the highway" is fine if the "My way" is fair and just, and not merely a dedication to stubborness of the "Do you know who I am" elitism. No doubt, when we win the Championship title and get back in the big time, my own view will change drastically and I promise to grovel and write a new article entitled "Hail the conquering hero comes".

That's it....

Does Mourinho do what the fans want?

Did Brian Clough?

Did Fergie?

Answer is no.

Note that doesn't mean you disrespect the fans. But you realise that a load of red faced folk screaming at you without even 1% of the relevant facts available to them, are not the best qualified to inform your decisions. If you can't realise that then you probably should get your McDonald's application form in.....

[bobo the clown]

I just wish he knew what "his way" was. Then he wouldn''t be such a contradictory b'stard.

yes, clowny-man - you keep trotting out this "contradictory" charge - like Blair and his cronies endlessly repeating soundbites in the belief that the more it is repeated the more it is true...

yet... I don't believe I have ever spotted you produce any contradictory quotes with their surrounding context to stack up this theory of yours... I submit that it is bollox and that he is no more "contradictory" than you or me or any other manager or bloke down the pub you care to mention...

Well, it's not taken you long to return to being a deliberately contrary git has it ?

Mr Freedman said he didn't believe in 4-4-2 and then went -4-2. He then claimed he hadn't ever been against it, just didn't have the right players for it. ... then he went and played a game without using it.

He said what we needed was Beckford. Got him in, scoring and then dropped him.

He said we needed Danns. He got him in, played him ... was proven right, he IS s good player ... and then dropped him. For Trotter ffs.

He is a major advocate of developing youth (Yay. Good for him) ... and has barely played one. Not even off the bench in cup games. He's loaned plenty out mind.

He chose Knight as his captain. When fans expressed incredulity, he told us we didn't really understand. Then later dropped him.

He said he would use Eagles as his second, deeper lying forward. He hasn't done. Not once I think.

He tried desperately to offload Mills and Ream. Later realising they are a very good pair.

He's lambasted players, to the media despite being a believer in keeping things 'in house'.

There are many more examples. You've even agreed in the past. Maybe you're being contradictory.

[thebish]

nahh - nowhere near good enough - you are missing ANY quotes or the context in which they were made. every time one of these supposed contradictions has been exposed to the light of day (ie - evidence) it has been found to be wanting...

lots of your examples there are not contradictory anyway - it's discovering that stuff happens and stuff changes and sometimes you make a wrong decision. Would you have preferred it if he had made (say) an early assessment of Ngog and thought he might forge a good partnership with Beckford - and then found out that wasn't so - but stuck with beckford/n'gog regardless in a 4-4-2... if he'd done that I suspect you'd have been frothing at the mouth with "stubborn" accusations.. would you have preferred him, having picked knight as captain - never to drop him (see Kevin davies/Nobby Nolan)?? I suspect not. contrary git??? alongside you I'm a rank amateur!!

go on - just two pairs of contrasting quotes with the contexts they were made in - too much to ask? (and I don't mean the newspaper headline or something Iles has said... or even something an American manager once said!)

my submission is still that you are talking bollox! (I suspect you know you are!)

there are plenty of things you could legitimately criticize Freedman for (look no further than results) - but making stuff up and endlessly repeating it as fact is just tiresome..

making a mistake and rectifying it is not contradictory - it's life - and a fairly good approach to life.

[TANGODANCER]

Does Mourinho do what the fans want?
Did Brian Clough?
Did Fergie?

Answer is no.

Note that doesn't mean you disrespect the fans. But you realise that a load of red faced folk screaming at you without even 1% of the relevant facts available to them, are not the best qualified to inform your decisions. If you can't realise that then you probably should get your McDonald's application form in.....

You are definitely Dougie in forum disguise. Mauriho, Fergie Brian Clough? In what way can our esteemed leader be mentioned in the same breath as those three? We're seventeenth in the Championship after a trio of three stooges managers and relegation. Can you see a miraculous seven straight wins ahead to end the season? Even that wouldn't get us near the play-offs unless those above us lost most of their games.

How about we assume we're talking about Dougie actually reading a few comments on the internet, newspapers, fan forums and maybe wondering what all those red-faced numpties are upset about and them being unable to see or understand injury reports. They couldn't possibly ( the sensible element amongst them) know enough about football to understand a team and subs or fathom out the baffling changes our leader sometimes makes, or maybe playing a system that obviously isn't working could they? Perhaps you'll make known some revelationary facts to the fans that you are a party to and they aren't?

Come on BWFCi, I'm no bed-sheet waver and never have been, I'm not suggesting Dougie has a love in with the fans and asks advice, that's just ludicrous. He may, however, realise something is upsetting them seriously and maybe wonder if his great, as yet undivulged plan, is actually going to start working on a regular basis. If our short burst of form continues, well and good. Up to now, as our position suggests, it hasn't done that well. Time will no doubt tell.

[BWFC_Insane]

Does Mourinho do what the fans want?
Did Brian Clough?
Did Fergie?

Answer is no.

Note that doesn't mean you disrespect the fans. But you realise that a load of red faced folk screaming at you without even 1% of the relevant facts available to them, are not the best qualified to inform your decisions. If you can't realise that then you probably should get your McDonald's application form in.....

You are definitely Dougie in forum disguise. Mauriho, Fergie Brian Clough? In what way can our esteemed leader be mentioned in the same breath as those three? We're seventeenth in the Championship after a trio of three stooges managers and relegation. Can you see a miraculous seven straight wins ahead to end the season? Even that wouldn't get us near the play-offs unless those above us lost most of their games.

How about we assume we're talking about Dougie actually reading a few comments on the internet, newspapers, fan forums and maybe wondering what all those red-faced numpties are upset about and them being unable to see or understand injury reports. They couldn't possibly ( the sensible element amongst them) know enough about football to understand a team and subs or fathom out the baffling changes our leader sometimes makes, or maybe playing a system that obviously isn't working could they? Perhaps you'll make known some revelationary facts to the fans that you are a party to and they aren't?

Come on BWFCi, I'm no bed-sheet waver and never have been, I'm not suggesting Dougie has a love in with the fans and asks advice, that's just ludicrous. He may, however, realise something is upsetting them seriously and maybe wonder if his great, as yet undivulged plan, is actually going to start working on a regular basis. If our short burst of form continues, well and good. Up to now, as our position suggests, it hasn't done that well. Time will no doubt tell.

What is upsetting them is not winning games. Bottom line. It doesn't matter what he does if we don't win.

So what he needs to do is win games.

Perhaps we should write to him and tell him that.....

[thebish]

if he listened to the fans - then we'd win games. simple.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

if he listened to the fans - then we'd win games. simple.

Well he should listen to the feckin fans then... even simpler.

[Bruce Rioja]

There's no way that Tango ever worked with Frank Sinatra. I'll put money on it that Sinatra never re-filled the urinals with pineapple chunks in his life

[Hoboh]

. your article seems to be suggesting that he should listen to the fans - and (presumably) do it their way instead (your final paragraph)... I just don't know how on earth that would work... (which was why I asked!)

"my way or the highway" (as you put it) far from "never really worked" - has worked plenty of times - Wenger, Ferguson, Mourinho.. in fact - is that not a pretty common characteristic of most highly successful managers?

Simply put, I'm not suggesting the fans know more than a football manager (Lord forbid that to be true). By saying Dougie should listen to them I'm indicating there is some sense being offered by some of their views and he should maybe allow the truth of some of it. If you've been following the Trotter threads you'll know exactly what the views are regarding selection of method and team set up. The article was written (as I've stated a couple of times) not as a thread topic, but mainly as a midweek fill in and to highlight our esteemed manager's seeming ability to ignore any fan opinion and possibly that of the players too in his selections. "My way or the highway" is fine if the "My way" is fair and just, and not merely a dedication to stubborness of the "Do you know who I am" elitism. No doubt, when we win the Championship title and get back in the big time, my own view will change drastically and I promise to grovel and write a new article entitled "Hail the conquering hero comes".

That's it....

Does Mourinho do what the fans want?

Did Brian Clough?

Did Fergie?

Answer is no.

Note that doesn't mean you disrespect the fans. But you realise that a load of red faced folk screaming at you without even 1% of the relevant facts available to them, are not the best qualified to inform your decisions. If you can't realise that then you probably should get your McDonald's application form in.....

Is Mourinho succesful? yes

Was Clough? yes

Was red nose? yes

Is Freedman?

[jonnycooper]

Problem is! We had about 15years of being spoilt rotten (Thank You Uncle Eddie )and a large chunk of our current followers assume we are a PL Club and Douglas needs to pull his finger out' and return us (to where we belong).It could be a long haul to get back to the PL if ever.Leeds will undoubtedly see themselves as a PL club;yet some of our fans wont remember them ever being one.I see very lengthy mumbling and grumbling ahead! !!

[Wandering Willy]

if he listened to the fans - then we'd win games. simple.

If he listened to me and fecked off we'd win a few more than we are.

[BWFC_Insane]

. your article seems to be suggesting that he should listen to the fans - and (presumably) do it their way instead (your final paragraph)... I just don't know how on earth that would work... (which was why I asked!)

"my way or the highway" (as you put it) far from "never really worked" - has worked plenty of times - Wenger, Ferguson, Mourinho.. in fact - is that not a pretty common characteristic of most highly successful managers?

Simply put, I'm not suggesting the fans know more than a football manager (Lord forbid that to be true). By saying Dougie should listen to them I'm indicating there is some sense being offered by some of their views and he should maybe allow the truth of some of it. If you've been following the Trotter threads you'll know exactly what the views are regarding selection of method and team set up. The article was written (as I've stated a couple of times) not as a thread topic, but mainly as a midweek fill in and to highlight our esteemed manager's seeming ability to ignore any fan opinion and possibly that of the players too in his selections. "My way or the highway" is fine if the "My way" is fair and just, and not merely a dedication to stubborness of the "Do you know who I am" elitism. No doubt, when we win the Championship title and get back in the big time, my own view will change drastically and I promise to grovel and write a new article entitled "Hail the conquering hero comes".

That's it....

Does Mourinho do what the fans want?

Did Brian Clough?

Did Fergie?

Answer is no.

Note that doesn't mean you disrespect the fans. But you realise that a load of red faced folk screaming at you without even 1% of the relevant facts available to them, are not the best qualified to inform your decisions. If you can't realise that then you probably should get your McDonald's application form in.....

Is Mourinho succesful? yes

Was Clough? yes

Was red nose? yes

Is Freedman?

But then the point is that you look at successful examples to create your points of reference. Otherwise what is the point?

And all managers have times when they struggle. Did Fergie in his early days at Man Utd, when he was disliked by the fans, change his ways after listening to them? No. Does Allardyce do that at West Ham? No. Did Mourinho at Madrid? No.

[jaffka]

Why are you equating Duggie to the likes of Mourinho and company?

[Gravedigger]

Why are you equating Duggie to the likes of Mourinho and company?

He speaks English with an accent?

[thebish]

Why are you equating Duggie to the likes of Mourinho and company?

It's not a question of equating anyone to anyone. It was merely a list of managers that seem to kick against Tango's assertion that "my way or the highway" has never worked.

[StaffsTrotter]

Why are you equating Duggie to the likes of Mourinho and company?

It's not a question of equating anyone to anyone. It was merely a list of managers that seem to kick against Tango's assertion that "my way or the highway" has never worked.

Given there are a number of forum members whose sole purpose seems to be that state that no-one can ever make observations or comment on how DF goes about his managerial business, because how can they possibly know the full picture, its astonishing that one of those proponents is putting forward a case based on apparent intimate knowledge of the methods and practices of other managers.

I'd bet the managerial style of every one of those changed through their career and certainly in respect of red nose & mourinho, I've always thought they develop a sense of collective team against the world mentality and good personal relationship with players - red noses recent book just spoiling the illusion. I don't get a sense of any of that at BWFC at the mo.

[thebish]

I can only marvel at how easily astonished you are! May it continue!