Gartside Out

[Hoboh]

Not quite HP, he then secured funding for the next 12 years in the Prem, that saw us with top 10 finishes and funded Megson's "splurge" of something approaching 30?m.

Still, does not make him any less of a wanker tbh. He's also overseen a massive decline too, don't forget that, your only as good as your last set of results, on that basis Gartside should be tied to a tree and speared!

[Lord Kangana]

Not quite HP, he then secured funding for the next 12 years in the Prem, that saw us with top 10 finishes and funded Megson's "splurge" of something approaching 30?m.

Am I not right in saying that the spending from 2007/08 to 2010/11 inclusive show the largest upsurge in our debt ? (If it does) then surely it wasn't funded spending, but reckless spending?

I remember Gartside saying, in the bloody season we were relegated(!), that we'd cracked the whole not getting relegated thing. I thought it massive hubris on his part at the time, I still do, but I also think it may have been bluff. Which would have me mostly agreeing with HP's point. The only solution Gartside saw to our soaraway costs was a PL2.

[LeverEnd]

Not quite HP, he then secured funding for the next 12 years in the Prem, that saw us with top 10 finishes and funded Megson's "splurge" of something approaching 30?m.

Still, does not make him any less of a wanker tbh. He's also overseen a massive decline too, don't forget that, your only as good as your last set of results, on that basis Gartside should be tied to a tree and speared!

You kinky beast.

[Worthy4England]

Not quite HP, he then secured funding for the next 12 years in the Prem, that saw us with top 10 finishes and funded Megson's "splurge" of something approaching 30?m.

Am I not right in saying that the spending from 2007/08 to 2010/11 inclusive show the largest upsurge in our debt ? (If it does) then surely it wasn't funded spending, but reckless spending?

I remember Gartside saying, in the bloody season we were relegated(!), that we'd cracked the whole not getting relegated thing. I thought it massive hubris on his part at the time, I still do, but I also think it may have been bluff. Which would have me mostly agreeing with HP's point. The only solution Gartside saw to our soaraway costs was a PL2.

Yes there were increases post Allardyce and fairly hefty ones - but no I don't necessarily agree with your conclusion of "reckless spending" when weighed against other PL Clubs of a similar(ish) size. Sure, if you keep using the yardstick of "normal businesses" then clearly reckless, but when has football in general, and certainly in the Premiership, ever used that particular yardstick?

Our wage bill was 13th highest, our revenue 15th highest. So not that different from say Fulham or Blackburn - our wages to revenue was less than Blackburn, Villa, City and QPR, so probably a little on the high side, but not significantly - there were I think 50% of Clubs in the 75 - 90% range of wage/revenue.

I did a year on year view somewhere a couple of seasons back and posted it on here - no idea where the thing is now. You also have to look at the Revenue side which also increased significantly post 2007 with new TV rights deals, but certainly the wonga Megson was given in his first January then first summer amounted to circa £30m if memory serves (on the headline figures) which is clearly more than any other Bolton Manager ever got in two windows.

But, if Eddie said "I agree, there's the cash go and spend it", how can it be reckless? Unless like yourself, you're prone to sleepless nights wondering if or when he'll want it back...We don't know the terms of Eddie's lending, or what will happen to his trust fund should he decide he wants out. It would be difficult enough to try and ascertain if everything was articled in the UK - it's pure speculation when it's in a black box in Bermuda.

[bobo the clown]

The biggest question of them.all is "after Eddie". I recall Jack Walker wiped the slate clean.

I'm in no rush to find out, much to Mr Davies' relief I guess, but does anyone have any ideas.

Meanwhile, "Freedman Out !!"

[H. Pedersen]

Not quite HP, he then secured funding for the next 12 years in the Prem, that saw us with top 10 finishes and funded Megson's "splurge" of something approaching 30?m.

Am I not right in saying that the spending from 2007/08 to 2010/11 inclusive show the largest upsurge in our debt ? (If it does) then surely it wasn't funded spending, but reckless spending?

I remember Gartside saying, in the bloody season we were relegated(!), that we'd cracked the whole not getting relegated thing. I thought it massive hubris on his part at the time, I still do, but I also think it may have been bluff. Which would have me mostly agreeing with HP's point. The only solution Gartside saw to our soaraway costs was a PL2.

Gartside and hubris go together like Redknapp and briefcases full of money. From the fax in his pocket, to good things in small packages, to "people who know football," he's got a history of having his boasts blow up in his face.

Regarding the spending, I think he dramatically underestimated the job Allardyce was doing on the cheap. When he saw that Lee and then Megson couldn't keep us up on the same budget, Gartside opened up the purse strings to try to save face.

[thebish]

Not quite HP, he then secured funding for the next 12 years in the Prem, that saw us with top 10 finishes and funded Megson's "splurge" of something approaching 30?m.

Am I not right in saying that the spending from 2007/08 to 2010/11 inclusive show the largest upsurge in our debt ? (If it does) then surely it wasn't funded spending, but reckless spending?

I remember Gartside saying, in the bloody season we were relegated(!), that we'd cracked the whole not getting relegated thing. I thought it massive hubris on his part at the time, I still do, but I also think it may have been bluff. Which would have me mostly agreeing with HP's point. The only solution Gartside saw to our soaraway costs was a PL2.

Gartside and hubris go together like Redknapp and briefcases full of money. From the fax in his pocket, to good things in small packages, to "people who know football," he's got a history of having his boasts blow up in his face.

Regarding the spending, I think he dramatically underestimated the job Allardyce was doing on the cheap. When he saw that Lee and then Megson couldn't keep us up on the same budget, Gartside opened up the purse strings to try to save face.

I would have though he had no power to do that at all unless Eddie sanctioned it... it's Eddie's purse, after all.

[H. Pedersen]

Perhaps "He lobbied Eddie to open the purse strings" would be more accurate.

[thebish]

Perhaps "He lobbied Eddie to open the purse strings" would be more accurate.

you say "accurate" - I say "pure guesswork"!

[H. Pedersen]

It's all guesswork until Big Sam writes his tell-all book. Can't wait for that.

[thebish]

It's all guesswork until Big Sam writes his tell-all book. Can't wait for that.

what would big sam know about the megson era?

[Lord Kangana]

According to Gartside (I think, but he's the witch we're burning, so lets run with it) it was Allardyce who suggested Megson to be his successor. I like to think it was his final f*ck off to Gartside, and he's been laughing at him for falling for it ever since.

[H. Pedersen]

I'm mostly interested to hear the exact circumstances of why he left.

The thing about the spending of the Megson era is that even players who were successes (Cahill) or relatively successes (Elmander) had their contract situations botched to the point that we didn't get anywhere near the money we should have. That would appear to be squarely on Gartside.

[H. Pedersen]

According to Gartside (I think, but he's the witch we're burning, so lets run with it) it was Allardyce who suggested Megson to be his successor. I like to think it was his final f*ck off to Gartside, and he's been laughing at him for falling for it ever since.

During the second Bush administration I remember seeing a bumper sticker that said "I never thought I'd miss Nixon."

That's sort of how Coyle has made me feel about Megson.

[Puskas]

According to Gartside (I think, but he's the witch we're burning, so lets run with it) it was Allardyce who suggested Megson to be his successor. I like to think it was his final f*ck off to Gartside, and he's been laughing at him for falling for it ever since.

I'm not sure we can blame Allardyce for that - I remember being at a London Whites meeting (in the top room at the Yorkshire Grey, IIRC), in which Gartside and his agent mate were answering questions.

It was a season or two before Allardyce left, but he was being courted by Newcastle (or possibly Sunderland, I can't quite remember). Anyway, he didn't go at the time, although apparently he gave Gartside a scare - the other club asked for permission to speak to him, and Gartside said, yes, thinking Allardyce wouldn't be interested. He was - but not enough....

Anyway, he was asked then who he thought would be a successor, and, when pushed, came up with Megson's name. This was when Megson was having his one minor successful spell (in between bouts of failure), so it possibly didn't seem quite as stupid as it may have done at other times, but it was still greeted with incredulity...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The League Cup final tickets thing was badly handled, although it's worth noting that for the semi-final we'd had 16,302 at the Reebok - assuming Villa brought say 3k, those home fans could've had three each. Obviously it doesn't work like that but if you want a final to attract more floating voters - and a shit semi-final attendance like that might suggest it's needed - then in the all-seater era you need to sell +1s or else your Mate From Work You're Trying To Indoctrinate will be sat in a different f*ckin' stand. That was the thinking; it's a pity it alienated so many hardcore wool-dyeds who were presumably mysteriously busy when Villa came to town.

He enjoyed the limelight a little too much (and was loose-lipped on occasion) but not by some standards. I still think we could do a hell of a lot worse.

I'm more with Worthy on this one. I disliked the Megson appointment, in manner and end result, but couldn't complain about him hiring Lee, Coyle and (to an extent, at the time) Freedman. He also did a lot of negotiations to get a lot of players here whom we will never forget - yes, to work with Sam paid by Eddie/PL money, but don't underestimate Gartside's role in that. As others have said, he's got a contacts book as good as most in the game, and it's needed because Eddie appears to be hands-off (he's not the CEO but the majority shareholder, because we ran out of money from other backers). In a football club without a director of football, or a sporting director, you need someone to hold the negotiations, which is often something you learn on the job. You can't just hire the impressive young CEO of the African Potash Mining Company and hope it works out, just like you can't hire a headteacher and make him first-team manager.

[Bruce Rioja]

The League Cup final tickets thing was badly handled, although it's worth noting that for the semi-final we'd had 16,302 at the Reebok - assuming Villa brought say 3k, those home fans could've had three each.

Handled badly? Now there's an understatement. As one of the the 16,303 I never envisaged having to despatch a courier to Manchester Piccadilly Box Office to desperately secure the last of the tickets in order to attend the Final.

[bobo the clown]

I agree with Barnet !!


There ... I've said it.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The League Cup final tickets thing was badly handled, although it's worth noting that for the semi-final we'd had 16,302 at the Reebok - assuming Villa brought say 3k, those home fans could've had three each.

Handled badly? Now there's an understatement. As one of the the 16,303 I never envisaged having to despatch a courier to Manchester Piccadilly Box Office to desperately secure the last of the tickets in order to attend the Final.

Fully agree, Bruce, a right old cock-up all round. I only got a ticket because a good friend won a competition on a beer-can, wouldya believe.

Would "terribly handled" make you feel better?

[bobo the clown]

I agree with Barnet !!


There ... I've said it.