Problems with Gartside

[bobo the clown]

I think it does show that he really didn't want to bin him and that, left to him, DF would still be in post regardless of results or league position. Also that the pressure was, as we all suspected, getting to Freedman and it was showing.

It's a poor interview by PG. As said above you can support a person without alienating others.

Maybe all this shows why he's been hiding recently .... oh, & the Court 'victory' which castigated him.

[EverSoYouri]

Back to the takeover rumour (which could have knock on effect for Gartside) I see Hilary Devey's people have refused to 'confirm or deny' the rumours, saying she'll make announcement via Twittish in a day or so...

[Worthy4England]

The way I see it, whilst the fans are pointing to our level of debt and crying foul, they want us to have money to spend on players etc. which would add to our levels of debt - which seems to be a nonsense, in the absence of "magic sticks" to make it go away. I think Freedman took the hard steps that Megson and Coyle (both of whom said they "cut the wage bill") didn't in having to slash the wage bill. So far so good, I can see that Gartside might think what he and Freedman were doing was misunderstood.

The fact that a mixture of Championship/Ex Premiership footballers seemed to go out on a Saturday with the wrong game plan or no game plan or a game plan that no one including them and the fans could understand was the problem that Gartside seems to be overlooking.

I don't expect them to win every game, I do expect players of Championship and above caliber (and I know we've got some that aren't) to be able to generally pass to a team mate, not look across the back four constantly wondering who other than them is going to tackle the man with the ball, maybe get more than one shot a game on target...

[mrplow]

The way I see it, whilst the fans are pointing to our level of debt and crying foul, they want us to have money to spend on players etc. which would add to our levels of debt - which seems to be a nonsense, in the absence of "magic sticks" to make it go away. I think Freedman took the hard steps that Megson and Coyle (both of whom said they "cut the wage bill") didn't in having to slash the wage bill. So far so good, I can see that Gartside might think what he and Freedman were doing was misunderstood.

Does the manager ever actually cut the wage bill though ? Or does someone more financially astute do it and they just have to live with the consequences. I can give DF allowance for having to work with a restricted budget, but I can't see him poring over spreadsheets trying to figure out how to save money.

[EverSoYouri]

The way I see it, whilst the fans are pointing to our level of debt and crying foul, they want us to have money to spend on players etc. which would add to our levels of debt - which seems to be a nonsense, in the absence of "magic sticks" to make it go away. I think Freedman took the hard steps that Megson and Coyle (both of whom said they "cut the wage bill") didn't in having to slash the wage bill. So far so good, I can see that Gartside might think what he and Freedman were doing was misunderstood.

The fact that a mixture of Championship/Ex Premiership footballers seemed to go out on a Saturday with the wrong game plan or no game plan or a game plan that no one including them and the fans could understand was the problem that Gartside seems to be overlooking.

I don't expect them to win every game, I do expect players of Championship and above caliber (and I know we've got some that aren't) to be able to generally pass to a team mate, not look across the back four constantly wondering who other than them is going to tackle the man with the ball, maybe get more than one shot a game on target...

In philosophical logic this is known as The Fallacy of the Straw Man - Gartside attributes to his opponent (us) a position weaker than the one we hold and then triumphs in demolishing that position (in other words, beating a straw man rather than a real one). Unfortunately for us, the press seem to buy his argument. Unfortunately for him, we know what we mean.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Back to the takeover rumour (which could have knock on effect for Gartside) I see Hilary Devey's people have refused to 'confirm or deny' the rumours, saying she'll make announcement via Twittish in a day or so...

Not a day or so, ESY. BN story quotes her minions thusly:

We are aware of the speculation and she will probably make an announcement on Twitter, but it will not be this week. She is involved in a very intensive period of filming for TV at the moment and cannot comment any further.

[Worthy4England]

The way I see it, whilst the fans are pointing to our level of debt and crying foul, they want us to have money to spend on players etc. which would add to our levels of debt - which seems to be a nonsense, in the absence of "magic sticks" to make it go away. I think Freedman took the hard steps that Megson and Coyle (both of whom said they "cut the wage bill") didn't in having to slash the wage bill. So far so good, I can see that Gartside might think what he and Freedman were doing was misunderstood.

Does the manager ever actually cut the wage bill though ? Or does someone more financially astute do it and they just have to live with the consequences. I can give DF allowance for having to work with a restricted budget, but I can't see him poring over spreadsheets trying to figure out how to save money.

I'm fairly sure the Manager is given his budget by someone else. I suspect (transfer fees aside for a minute) the Manager gets to pick who he has in his squad to meet that budget. Clearly there was a large slice of wage budget went out of last year's overall spend - we went from £48m to £34m iirc. We will have certainly cut that again, significantly in the 12 months of the 2014 Accounts.

Someone cutting your budget that drastically (even though Freedman didn't actually do the cutting) has a fairly significant impact on what the Manager needs to do So what needs achieving (Accounts Dept) - How it's then achieved (Manager)

He probably had some spreadsheets showing what players earn - so he knew where to cut.

[Worthy4England]

Back to the takeover rumour (which could have knock on effect for Gartside) I see Hilary Devey's people have refused to 'confirm or deny' the rumours, saying she'll make announcement via Twittish in a day or so...

Not a day or so, ESY. BN story quotes her minions thusly:

We are aware of the speculation and she will probably make an announcement on Twitter, but it will not be this week. She is involved in a very intensive period of filming for TV at the moment and cannot comment any further.

I'm not quite at the "show my arse on the Town Hall steps" stage, but I just can't see this one happening at all. Unless ED wrote off some debt.

[thebish]

Back to the takeover rumour (which could have knock on effect for Gartside) I see Hilary Devey's people have refused to 'confirm or deny' the rumours, saying she'll make announcement via Twittish in a day or so...

Not a day or so, ESY. BN story quotes her minions thusly:

We are aware of the speculation and she will probably make an announcement on Twitter, but it will not be this week. She is involved in a very intensive period of filming for TV at the moment and cannot comment any further.

I'm not quite at the "show my arse on the Town Hall steps" stage, but I just can't see this one happening at all. Unless ED wrote off some debt.

still - on balance - rather yours than Hilary's!

[mrplow]

The way I see it, whilst the fans are pointing to our level of debt and crying foul, they want us to have money to spend on players etc. which would add to our levels of debt - which seems to be a nonsense, in the absence of "magic sticks" to make it go away. I think Freedman took the hard steps that Megson and Coyle (both of whom said they "cut the wage bill") didn't in having to slash the wage bill. So far so good, I can see that Gartside might think what he and Freedman were doing was misunderstood.

Does the manager ever actually cut the wage bill though ? Or does someone more financially astute do it and they just have to live with the consequences. I can give DF allowance for having to work with a restricted budget, but I can't see him poring over spreadsheets trying to figure out how to save money.

I'm fairly sure the Manager is given his budget by someone else. I suspect (transfer fees aside for a minute) the Manager gets to pick who he has in his squad to meet that budget. Clearly there was a large slice of wage budget went out of last year's overall spend - we went from £48m to £34m iirc. We will have certainly cut that again, significantly in the 12 months of the 2014 Accounts.

Someone cutting your budget that drastically (even though Freedman didn't actually do the cutting) has a fairly significant impact on what the Manager needs to do So what needs achieving (Accounts Dept) - How it's then achieved (Manager)

He probably had some spreadsheets showing what players earn - so he knew where to cut.

Yes, that sounds plausible. Thanks.

[Worthy4England]

Back to the takeover rumour (which could have knock on effect for Gartside) I see Hilary Devey's people have refused to 'confirm or deny' the rumours, saying she'll make announcement via Twittish in a day or so...

Not a day or so, ESY. BN story quotes her minions thusly:

We are aware of the speculation and she will probably make an announcement on Twitter, but it will not be this week. She is involved in a very intensive period of filming for TV at the moment and cannot comment any further.

I'm not quite at the "show my arse on the Town Hall steps" stage, but I just can't see this one happening at all. Unless ED wrote off some debt.

still - on balance - rather yours than Hilary's!

I'd rather Hilary's. It's dark, wet and cold.

[Andy Waller]

Back to the takeover rumour (which could have knock on effect for Gartside) I see Hilary Devey's people have refused to 'confirm or deny' the rumours, saying she'll make announcement via Twittish in a day or so...

Not a day or so, ESY. BN story quotes her minions thusly:

We are aware of the speculation and she will probably make an announcement on Twitter, but it will not be this week. She is involved in a very intensive period of filming for TV at the moment and cannot comment any further.

I'm not quite at the "show my arse on the Town Hall steps" stage, but I just can't see this one happening at all. Unless ED wrote off some debt.

still - on balance - rather yours than Hilary's!

I'd rather Hilary's. It's dark, wet and cold.

Would she say "I'm out" before revealing said arse?

[a1]

re: hillary davey - when she croaks , her son likes/liked his smack. if she wills it to him, then , eddie davies dying and being would be a cakewalk compared. imo.

more chance of me owning it.

[boltonboris]

It's all bollocks.. But if it wasn't. She would only be the front of a syndicate. She couldn't afford it otherwise.

We'll be sponsored by Pallex anyway

[journojonesy]

IMHO I'd presume that it could be a realistic possibility. If for example Devey (et al.) offered £30million; would ED be tempted? Granted he has put in £100+million, but that was over a long period of time and has almost 0 chance of ever being reimbursed.
I'm not up on the legality of it all, but should Davies accept said £30million for the Whites and consider the slate clean...it would make a very interesting prospect for any right minded business person. With a clean slate and someone who has an eye for balancing books anything could happen. Though most likely is a modest investment in finance and an expectation that it would run self-sufficiently.
The key to everything is what ED would consider value for what he has done thus far. Given the state of things financially...it could be anything to have it taken off his hands. A good estimate would be what? Something based on x times his interest? (X being however long he thinks he could stick it for?)

[StaffsTrotter]

IMHO I'd presume that it could be a realistic possibility. If for example Devey (et al.) offered £30million; would ED be tempted? Granted he has put in £100+million, but that was over a long period of time and has almost 0 chance of ever being reimbursed.
I'm not up on the legality of it all, but should Davies accept said £30million for the Whites and consider the slate clean...it would make a very interesting prospect for any right minded business person. With a clean slate and someone who has an eye for balancing books anything could happen. Though most likely is a modest investment in finance and an expectation that it would run self-sufficiently.
The key to everything is what ED would consider value for what he has done thus far. Given the state of things financially...it could be anything to have it taken off his hands. A good estimate would be what? Something based on x times his interest? (X being however long he thinks he could stick it for?)

forgive me if this has already been raised but would it make any difference - whether it was her or a consortium or even joining with ED, wouldn't FFP still limit what can be done ? (i'm still not convinced by the ED has lost interest idea)

[EverSoYouri]

Back to the takeover rumour (which could have knock on effect for Gartside) I see Hilary Devey's people have refused to 'confirm or deny' the rumours, saying she'll make announcement via Twittish in a day or so...

Not a day or so, ESY. BN story quotes her minions thusly:

We are aware of the speculation and she will probably make an announcement on Twitter, but it will not be this week. She is involved in a very intensive period of filming for TV at the moment and cannot comment any further.

What can I say? I read it with all the integrity of an investigative reporter for the Observer then reported like a pissed-up Daily Star hack! mea culpa DSB

[journojonesy]

forgive me if this has already been raised but would it make any difference - whether it was her or a consortium or even joining with ED, wouldn't FFP still limit what can be done ? (i'm still not convinced by the ED has lost interest idea)

No idea Staffs. I'd have thought as it's owed to a man rather than a bank, if he sold the club for a pound it's his choice.
FFP would limit us spending more than we earn? Is that how it's supposed to work? I think a smart business person could have a field day with that kind of thing.

[EverSoYouri]

re: hillary davey - when she croaks , her son likes/liked his smack. if she wills it to him, then , eddie davies dying and being would be a cakewalk compared. imo.

more chance of me owning it.

If his habit is as bad as alleged (by her, so far as I know) I'd say chances are he'll go before her - leaving her to focus on her 'beloved' (as she calls them) BWFC.

To pull back from this grim and tasteless speculation. I'm inclined to agree with all of you, who thinks it's unlikely to go through. On the other hand, she doesn't strike me as a Michael Knighton type, and reports from her people seem to suggest she is seriously looking into it.

[H. Pedersen]

The way I see it, whilst the fans are pointing to our level of debt and crying foul, they want us to have money to spend on players etc. which would add to our levels of debt - which seems to be a nonsense, in the absence of "magic sticks" to make it go away. I think Freedman took the hard steps that Megson and Coyle (both of whom said they "cut the wage bill") didn't in having to slash the wage bill. So far so good, I can see that Gartside might think what he and Freedman were doing was misunderstood.

Personally I don't think Gartside is allowed to hide behind the fact that he wasted our money hiring and firing lousy managers
who hired expensive players with no resale value. "Why are you so pissed about the debt? I already told you, I SPENT all the money! What do you want from me??"

Elmander's fee and wages alone are probably 10% of our debt.