"The ratio of people to cake is too big" Milton (K dons) (A)

[BWFC_Insane]

To answer that DSB here is a quote from the man himself.

I will imagine we will go back to four at the back tonight.

"In the meantime when we have no midweek games we can work on playing a three or five at the back and the tactical side of doing that.

"It was clear after 20 minutes it didn’t work. We changed it and still conceded anyway.

"You can talk about formations all you like but the players still have to do the basics of the game better than what they did on Saturday and they know that.

Dear Neil, you've just had a pre-season and are now saying there wasn't enough time pre-game to work on the tactical side of playing a system. You're not instilling confidence here. Like your set piece remarks this screams of amateurism. Alex Ferguson used to say that pre-season was the only time you got to properly work on team shape and tactical nuances. I find it strange that we seem to prepare a day or two before a match, rather than spending considerable time pre-season on team shape and systems.

Sam Allardyce's thoughts would be fascinating.

[CAPSLOCK]

Unless of course you don't have the players in the club during pre season

Generally though, I'm in agreement and it was soooo fcuking predictable what was going to happen

The only surprise was that he didn't shoo in his favoured useless Pole

[BWFC_Insane]

Unless of course you don't have the players in the club during pre season

Generally though, I'm in agreement and it was soooo fcuking predictable what was going to happen

The only surprise was that he didn't shoo in his favoured useless Pole

On Saturday all the players had been here for pre-season barring Prince. I mean I get you do specific prep for each game but the system and shape and basic organisation surely happens over the summer? New players are then dropped into a system that is well drilled and learn their role within it?

I like Neil Lennon a lot but the worry I have is that more and more his comments sound a bit like we're winging it as we go along. I thought he and his backroom staff would bring back the organisation and structured approach we've been missing but he almost seems a bit fanciful like Coyle at times in his approach.

We've not scored yet and some of that might be due to our set piece delivery being so abysmal. For teams that lack goals in open play like ourselves set pieces are crucial and barring a couple against Derby the delivery has been poor and it has looked to me like it is "you have a go, if it goes wrong then he'll have a bash next". In my view we're at a point where those sorts of details can make the difference. I can't see us playing many teams off the park in this division so it is a question of keeping games tight and playing the percentages. Something we've not done well under our last 2 managers and I hoped Neil Lennon would change that.

[BWFC_Insane]

He can do that, we saw it when he first came in and steadied the ship. We were scoring goals and defending very well. We also went toe-to-toe with a very strong Derby side and matched, arguably bettered, them. Where I think Lennon's faults lie recently is that he's trying to impose his tactical view of 3-5-2 that he's had since his Celtic days on a team that simply cannot perform it. As many others, and I think yourself Insane, have said it is a very hard formation to get right and is commonly used by the top teams who do have the players capable of fulfilling it. This is a combination of stubbornness and naivety.

We have played our best under Lennon when we kept things moderately simple with 4-4-2 and 4-5-1, and he's since started to gradually drift away from that towards his 3-5-2 formation used at Celtic despite results going against us. I do not doubt his ability, but his stubbornness to keep persisting with a tactic when we have a PPG of about 0.2 using it (~ 6 points out of 33 I think?). This chopping and changing of tactics and formations, along with occasional strange personnel switches, makes it hard to get any consistency going. Admittedly niggly injuries don't help, but this "tinkering" as people have started to call it is worse.

In my opinion he needs to keep his ego and tactical preferences out of the equation, and stick to formations that have worked for us even if they are rather "simple" and "boring" takes on 4-4-2 and 4-5-1. There's nothing wrong with adapting to different opposition and matches, but making wholesale changes like moving to 3-5-2 just harms our performances.

We did do very well when he first came in. But we've had similarly good runs under our previous managers. And the history is that the run ends and we never recapture that sort of form.

When he first came in he did keep things relatively simple and we started playing a higher tempo, fairly direct game and it worked. However, since then I feel that he's started to want to play a brand of football we're not really capable of. We've stopped playing to a front man and started trying to play through midfield more and we've stopped using width and started trying to open teams up down the middle.

I feel he would be best served going back to some high tempo, simple football with us well organised and playing the percentages. As you say we did well against Derby, but only really threatened once he threw two big men up front and we just lobbed balls into the box. Perhaps, that is the way forward rather than trying to overcomplicate things?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Best performances last season came in a 4-2-3-1 with Craig Davies doing the leg work and others coming past him to score.

Get another winger and we've got the personnel to do that again. I fancy Madine to score 8-10 if he plays 30; hopefully more goals come from the runners - Clough, Clayton, Feeney, new winger, Mavies, Pratley...

[Jugs]

Best performances last season came in a 4-2-3-1 with Craig Davies doing the leg work and others coming past him to score.

Get another winger and we've got the personnel to do that again. I fancy Madine to score 8-10 if he plays 30; hopefully more goals come from the runners - Clough, Clayton, Feeney, new winger, Mavies, Pratley...

Mavies needs to score more. I love him, and I keep defending him, but it's about time he started involving himself a bit more and taking some responsibility in terms of goals. Have a pop now and then, you know?

And those Lennon quotes about "imagining" we'll go back to 4 in defence tonight are fecking terrifying.

[BWFC_Insane]

Best performances last season came in a 4-2-3-1 with Craig Davies doing the leg work and others coming past him to score.

Get another winger and we've got the personnel to do that again. I fancy Madine to score 8-10 if he plays 30; hopefully more goals come from the runners - Clough, Clayton, Feeney, new winger, Mavies, Pratley...

Yes. We could have played that system already. But instead we've played a weird and narrow midfield diamond. Against Derby, fair do's. Against Burton, why?

That is the system I think we should be playing week in week out. You can tweak it away from home by putting in two real grafters into the 2 and Pratley into the 3, and at home having Mark Davies in the 2.

But for me we've got a group of players crying out for that system, and had our best success with it. Yet we've not used it this season in favour of Liam Feeney playing up front.....

[boltonboris]

We've not scored yet and some of that might be due to our set piece delivery being so abysmal.

Alternatively, set-pieces are the only times we've almost scored

[HMX]

Why would Lennon prep MK Dons about our 4 at the back this evening? Surely they're doing / have done research on us. Maybe he's bluffing and we'll go 2-6-2 (or rather, 3-5-2)

[jaffka]

As put wrongly elsewhere, we score and win tonight 2-1.

COYFWM

[Bruce Rioja]

3-1 us, and we'll all be wondering what we were worried about.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

complex formations like 3-5-2 that require specific roles to actually function well such as pacy wingbacks who can overlap, attack, and defend to a decent level. There's a reason that mainly top clubs and countries use it; it's because they possess the talent necessary to make it work, and work well.

Very largely true but exceptions exist. Johnny Sheridan improved Plymouth from drop-dodgers to play-offs playing 3-5-2, latterly with our boy Kellett on the left.

But overall, yeah - as Boris* explained in some thread or other, you need players not just capable but comfortable in more than one position. Some of ours aren't even comfortable in one...

*Apologies, it was danardif1:

It worked for him at Celtic as an alternative tactic because he had players like Charlie Mulgrew (who I'm a big fan of, excellent player) who were very versatile and even switched between covering at left wing back and in midfield within the same match (the Barcelona one being a good example... Mulgrew was employed in midfield initially but with a remit to cover Dani Alves which pushed him wider and further back). Mikael Lustig on the other side was a more typical right back but can play in the middle too. It was the flexibility his Celtic players had that allowed Lennon his own flexibility tactically. We just don't have that versatility within our own squad.

[bobo the clown]

We've not scored yet and some of that might be due to our set piece delivery being so abysmal.

Alternatively, set-pieces are the only times we've almost scored

In the first 2 games we hit the post/bar 4 times. Pus the amazing miss by Madine. Saturday was a disaster, but it's hardly panic stations.

[Bijou Bob]

On the way, just passing Corley services and the predictions from Genshaw, Wtw and young Bob are all over the place. I'm going 1-0, 3rd minute goal followed by 87 edge of the seat, gritted teeth minutes of panic as we defend ever deeper.

[Burnden Paddock]

On the way, just passing Corley services and the predictions from Genshaw, Wtw and young Bob are all over the place. I'm going 1-0, 3rd minute goal followed by 87 edge of the seat, gritted teeth minutes of panic as we defend ever deeper.

Just had a text from LE. He said something about being on his way to meet his bitches! You can blame thank me for giving him your number!

[TANGODANCER]

As ever, COME ON YOU WHITES....

[KeyserSoze]

Team

#BWFC team to face @MKDonsFC: Amos, Wilson, Prince, Dervite, Moxey, Vela, Danns, Davies, Feeney, Clough, Madine

#BWFC subs: Fitzsimons, Spearing, Heskey, Dobbie, Twardzik, Walker, Holding #MKDvBOL

https://twitter.com/OfficialBWFC/status ... 6746399747" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4-4-2 (or 4-5-1, or 4-4-1-1, or whatever)

[jmjhb]

#BWFC team to face @MKDonsFC: Amos, Wilson, Prince, Dervite, Moxey, Vela, Danns, Davies, Feeney, Clough, Madine

[officer_dibble]

Madines recovered! Its a little christmas miracle!

[jmjhb]

Looks like 4-4-2 too. Much more balanced than at the weekend.