Might we see some wood for the trees? - Forest (H) 22/08/15

[Worthy4England]

His body language makes him look like he'd rather be somewhere else. He has a decent left peg but isn't blessed with great pace and can't tackle. I know he's young and will hopefully improve but he might as well not have turned up on Saturday - his highlight was the free kick (with his left peg) that missed everybody by about 20ft and sailed into the stands

Clearly being played out of position - that statement there, makes him a striker...

[jaffka]

I know one thing for sure -our defence! It's 10 times more solid than least seasons! I'd make it a priority in Jan to sign Prince! Bloke just glides across the pitch. Moxey (some said he was MOTM at forest) and Dervite have been reborn! Wilson looks solid enough. Can't evaluate Amos as he's had Fvck all to do! (Boro game aside)

The goals will come. I'm happy with our current efforts

The back four looks very good to me. Wilson was superb against Antonio and is a decent enough footballer in my view. Definitely the best right back we've had in ages.

Moxey is playing really well. He is again in my view far better at left back than Ream. And the centre half partnership looks really, really good.

It is a really excellent platform. If we can get the balance in midfield right and score some goals we'll be really well set because we've not had a solid back four for a long time.

Now that's much better. Well done.

[officer_dibble]

Re Walker
I see Lennons given him some grief in the press (BN). Seems to do that a bit...Big time Charlie?

[Nicko58]

Re Walker
I see Lennons given him some grief in the press (BN). Seems to do that a bit...Big time Charlie?

It's not the first time that he's done it either. It seems more than a little harsh that Walker's fair game for public criticism when others get off scot free.

[TANGODANCER]

Without arguing how well or badly Walker played, as I wasn't there, surely a manager is entitled to tell a player if he's off the pace a bit? Seems that's all that Lennon did?

"“We thought Tom was a little bit off the pace and he’s got to start stepping up to things,” he said. “He put a couple of decent set pieces in but his play in general was off the pace."

It isn't kindergarten and a guy who's pay is probably twenty times that of your average working man should accept he can be told if his work is below par? Surely?

[Nicko58]

Without arguing how well or badly Walker played, as I wasn't there, surely a manager is entitled to tell a player if he's off the pace a bit? Seems that's all that Lennon did?

"“We thought Tom was a little bit off the pace and he’s got to start stepping up to things,” he said. “He put a couple of decent set pieces in but his play in general was off the pace."

It isn't kindergarten and a guy who's pay is probably twenty times that of your average working man should accept he can be told if his work is below par? Surely?

I have no issue with a player being told he is off the pace, but it should be done in-house rather than via the press. There are exceptions, of course, but it seems that almost every time that Walker plays, Lennon criticises him in public afterwards.

He is a teenager who was promoted to the first team before he was ready out of necessity, and who has often been played in a position that he's not used to. As a result I feel that he gets a bit of a raw deal from a manager who should know better.

Not that his pay should matter, but he signed his first professional contract in the summer so will be on buttons, and when he appeared for us last season he was an academy player and was paid nothing. That's a far cry from twenty times the average of the working man.

[Prufrock]

I think the aim is to gee him along and make him feel like he belongs. Treat him as an adult player so he acts like one. Of the three kids he's the one who least looks like he feels he belongs.

[jaffka]

He got taken off at half time for a reason...

[Nicko58]

He got taken off at half time for a reason...

I'm not saying that he shouldn't have been taken off. He has talent but looks drained of confidence, and criticising him in public doesn't appear to be helping.

[BWFC_Insane]

Re Walker
I see Lennons given him some grief in the press (BN). Seems to do that a bit...Big time Charlie?

Depends - some people can pull it off, others can't. For example Freedman used to do it quite frequently with "x didn't play well", and his infamous inference that we weren't good enough to stay in the Championship and it never really helped the players or atmosphere. At the other end of the scale you've got people like Fergie who, whatever your opinion of the man, pulled off the tough-love "play better or you're out of the team" public act well and got results. In my opinion Allardyce fell more into the latter category than the former, and I'd like to think Lennon does too. Results aren't quite where we want them to be yet, but by all accounts team performance is overall the best it's been in years. Probably the best overall performances since relegation.

Ferguson made a huge point of not criticising players in public. I don't think there is a need for a manager to do it. Keep that behind closed doors. I guess it is hard not to get frustrated in the job, but still think if possible to keep individual criticism behind closed doors.

[Jugs]

Mourinho has never minced his words when talking about his own players, and his players love playing for him.

If a player needs a kick up the arse, and knows they need a kick up the arse, then do it.

[BWFC_Insane]

Mourinho has never minced his words when talking about his own players, and his players love playing for him.

If a player needs a kick up the arse, and knows they need a kick up the arse, then do it.

Don't think Mourinho has openly criticised his players much. Not that I remember. Just his medical staff.

[Jugs]

Mourinho has never minced his words when talking about his own players, and his players love playing for him.

If a player needs a kick up the arse, and knows they need a kick up the arse, then do it.

Don't think Mourinho has openly criticised his players much. Not that I remember. Just his medical staff.

He has a few times in the past. Obviously my memory can't bring up everything, but in more recent times he laid into youngster Ruben Loftus-Cheek over the summer during a lacklustre performance before singling out Cahill, Ivanovic, Fabregas, Hazard, Terry and Azpilecueta last week.

[Enoch]

Walker's got some talent, he's no right winger though.

[Enoch]

For example Freedman used to do it quite frequently with "x didn't play well"

Did he, really?

For all his faults, I don't remember him doing that very often.

If you've got some examples I'd be interested to see them.

[jaffka]

"The problem with Chelsea is I lack a scorer,’ said Mourinho (right), speaking in French. ‘I have Eto’o but he is 32 years old, maybe 35, who knows?"

"When he [Torres] has the ball on his feet with the back to the goal, he’s not a very skilful player, we know that."

"Ruben was saying he had a pain in his back but what I was feeling was that he only had this pain when Sydney had the ball,”

[jmjhb]

Mourinho has never minced his words when talking about his own players, and his players love playing for him.

If a player needs a kick up the arse, and knows they need a kick up the arse, then do it.

Don't think Mourinho has openly criticised his players much. Not that I remember. Just his medical staff.

He has a few times in the past. Obviously my memory can't bring up everything, but in more recent times he laid into youngster Ruben Loftus-Cheek over the summer during a lacklustre performance before singling out Cahill, Ivanovic, Fabregas, Hazard, Terry and Azpilecueta last week.

That's because he has been phoning it in since January and just wants to take the pressure off himself...

[malcd1]

"The problem with Chelsea is I lack a scorer,’ said Mourinho (right), speaking in French. ‘I have Eto’o but he is 32 years old, maybe 35, who knows?"

"When he [Torres] has the ball on his feet with the back to the goal, he’s not a very skilful player, we know that."

"Ruben was saying he had a pain in his back but what I was feeling was that he only had this pain when Sydney had the ball,”

I also remember him doing it with Hazard when he wasn't getting back defending.

"he is not the kind of player ready to sacrifice himself 100% for the team".

"is not so mentally ready" to help his defence, blaming him for the first goal scored by Atletico Madrid in Chelsea's Champions League exit.

Mourinho says he is "not happy" with Hazard, despite "speaking all season" with the player in a bid to "improve him".

[Enoch]

For example Freedman used to do it quite frequently with "x didn't play well"

Did he, really?

For all his faults, I don't remember him doing that very often.

If you've got some examples I'd be interested to see them.

He didn't do it often...... ......I can't recall him singling out players individually very often

It's more a Lennon trait than it is a Freedman trait.

Is it an effective ploy or not, who knows? Each instance would need to be judged on its merits over time.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ferguson made a huge point of not criticising players in public. I don't think there is a need for a manager to do it. Keep that behind closed doors. I guess it is hard not to get frustrated in the job, but still think if possible to keep individual criticism behind closed doors.

He may well have said that, doesn't mean he followed through in my opinion: public spats with Keane (justified or not); Beckham and the boot and off-field distractions; Hargreaves, re injuries; Rooney, specifically weight and fitness issues; Nani being inconsistent; various youth players in the league cup when he played a young side and lost. There's loads of articles out there with his public criticisms. And admittedly post retirement, but critical comments in his auto-biography too. If anything he loves a good public moan about players and staff - both his own and other clubs.

It depends. I see no harm in saying a player underperformed, or if they're lacking form at the moment but I agree that publicly throwing someone under the bus (the way van Gaal does e.g. with Valdes) is really unprofessional. I feel the same with players whenever they throw their toys out.

For example Freedman used to do it quite frequently with "x didn't play well"

Did he, really?

For all his faults, I don't remember him doing that very often.

If you've got some examples I'd be interested to see them.

He didn't do it often, but when he did it wasn't tactful. I remember him doing it on quite a few occasions and thinking "well that'll help confidence" - struggling to find examples though as the BEN search is terrible.

Off the top of my head he infamously said to a journalist (think it was 5 live?) that "It doesn't look like it does it?" when asked if the squad was good enough to stay in the Championship. He was also publicly critical of the youth players as a whole (Clough, Vela etc.) saying they were nowhere near first team standard, and we have since seen that this was a lie. Freedman apparently calling Eagles disruptive too, around the time he left. Various comments about there being a "nucleus of good players" with the rest "not heading in the right direction". I can't recall him singling out players individually very often, but he did on multiple occasions say (or at least hint) that the squad was absolute pants, when it would have been more accurate to say that we were underperforming in my opinion - probably due to his crap tactics.

How many of those Ferguson incidents were actually public and how many were just leaked via the papers and autobiographies and the like?