What sort of football club can the town of Bolton support?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

At the Brentford game I chanced my arm on a hot choccie. It tasted of precisely nowt!

It needs to be looked at mate. The quality of the drinks really is poor. There are non-league clubs that do it better.

Indeed there are - Chorley for one, whose catering is superb.

Bruce and Chorley, sitting in a tree
E. N. J. O. Y. I. N. G what is after all supposed to be an entertainment business

[Jugs]

Fans who go to a non-league game for the first time might return because of the whole match day experience. They get served proper beer, proper pies, proper coffee. They're treated with respect and given good products. It encourages repeat visits because, let's face it, the football isn't always going to be enough.

You can't say the same thing at Bolton. Even the pies are shite.

There is going to have to be a change at some point at the Macron. If we drop down through the leagues, we'll lose more and more fans on matchday. At this point, you can't keep treating them with contempt by serving them crap tea, coffee, hot chocolate and lager that plays havoc with your digestive system.

I know it won't be BWFC's fault, but even the surrounding pubs are terrible. Neither The Harvester or Scott's serve a proper ale, while they continue to serve lager in plastic glasses way beyond full-time (presumably in case angry Bolton fans start a fight with angry Cardiff fans). And then there is The Barnstormer's that doesn't even show live football.

The matchday experience needs to improve.

[boltonboris]

If we offered free tickets for the next home match, the attendance wouldn't be over 15000. Therefore, I don't think think the town of Bolton could sustain a sizeable club with ambitions that most of the match going fans have.. Because Bolton doesn't generally give a shit about its club and hasn't for a few years

[StaffsTrotter]

In previous discussions on this kind of thing, I've put forward some observation I'd read that theres historically been a reliance for support on the areas to the west and that boltonians only turn out for the big day. As discussed above we are a curious set of fans. Pretty poor attendances 14/15k for the final burnden season, was it 14k for the s-f with villa and then huge furores over ticket allocation policy for the LC final. Ive not checked but I'm guessing PTs high teens theory is based on when we first dropped out of the prem - I seem to recall regular crowds of that order.

Other than the last couple of years, we have had a fantastic period since BR. Its not all been success but we have been playing for something and whilst it drew fans back, obviously they've not stayed and so unless fortunes change the best we can hope for is to stabilise in the 10-13k. we're not on our own - cardiff, birmingham all have seen the same. I just wonder how the likes of derby and brighton have been able to increase and retain fans following the move to new stadiums but with relatively little success

[Jugs]

In previous discussions on this kind of thing, I've put forward some observation I'd read that theres historically been a reliance for support on the areas to the west and that boltonians only turn out for the big day. As discussed above we are a curious set of fans. Pretty poor attendances 14/15k for the final burnden season, was it 14k for the s-f with villa and then huge furores over ticket allocation policy for the LC final. Ive not checked but I'm guessing PTs high teens theory is based on when we first dropped out of the prem - I seem to recall regular crowds of that order.

Other than the last couple of years, we have had a fantastic period since BR. Its not all been success but we have been playing for something and whilst it drew fans back, obviously they've not stayed and so unless fortunes change the best we can hope for is to stabilise in the 10-13k. we're not on our own - cardiff, birmingham all have seen the same. I just wonder how the likes of derby and brighton have been able to increase and retain fans following the move to new stadiums but with relatively little success

We're not helped by the fact that United and City are on our doorstep. They gobble up a lot of fans.

Also, my friend was telling me the other day about Brighton and the things they do for the home fans to improve the matchday experience. They introduce a different beer for each game, usually an ale sourced from the away fans' hometown. They also open the foyer at full-time and allows fans to stay behind for another drink or two. I'm not saying this is the sole reason for returning fans, but the club obviously does things that encourages people to turn up. Sometimes, the football isn't always enough.

The Macron needs to be more welcoming for all groups of fans and not just kids and families.

[Burnden Paddock]

For example, Worthington's or Carling inside the stadium? Two of the most awful beers around!

At the Brentford game I chanced my arm on a hot choccie. It tasted of precisely nowt!

I refuse to pay for the shite beer. They even manage to feck up the Bovril. How??

[Harry Genshaw]

In relation to our last year at Burnden. The capacity for all but the last game was 18000 or so iirc. Generally 3000 of those were in the away section. Crowds of 14 & 15000 against poorly supported sides weren't a sign of lack of support. It was all that could get in!

Football as a whole outside the prem is at a bit of a tipping point. Most sides are in debt and few turn a regular profit. Our level is about where we're at. Lower half of division 2

[LeverEnd]

For example, Worthington's or Carling inside the stadium? Two of the most awful beers around!

At the Brentford game I chanced my arm on a hot choccie. It tasted of precisely nowt!

I refuse to pay for the shite beer. They even manage to feck up the Bovril. How??

This is true. Instead of a pie and a pint he had 2 pies on Saturday the fat feck.

[StaffsTrotter]

In relation to our last year at Burnden. The capacity for all but the last game was 18000 or so iirc. Generally 3000 of those were in the away section. Crowds of 14 & 15000 against poorly supported sides weren't a sign of lack of support. It was all that could get in!

Football as a whole outside the prem is at a bit of a tipping point. Most sides are in debt and few turn a regular profit. Our level is about where we're at. Lower half of division 2

OK but I cant remember many sell outs

[Aanvalluh]

Indeed there are - Chorley for one, whose catering is superb.

Nice bar too...but the team is rubbish this season!

Bolton's attendances have stayed fairly high, probably due to the sheer number of season-tickets sold (?). When I watched them in the very early 70's gates were 14-15,000 and dropped to around 6-7k at the foot of the second tier, and the same again in the days of Chandler, Moores et al. I stood on the terrace when there was nder 3000 in the ground for a game v Darlo (or Doncaster - it began with D anyway!) - and that was Burnden, not an out-of-town shopping mall.

Question is, assuming relegation, how many season tickets will be sold, how many fans will be prepared to pay £7 (?) on the car park or nearly a fiver on the bus to watch a possibly struggling third division team? Probably a darned sight less than this season.

How much can they charge on the gate? Will they put free buses on, make it next-to-nowt to park? All that has to be factored in if they don't want the stadium 3/4 empty; it's a huge drop in income again.

[Jugs]

Indeed there are - Chorley for one, whose catering is superb.

Nice bar too...but the team is rubbish this season!

Bolton's attendances have stayed fairly high, probably due to the sheer number of season-tickets sold (?). When I watched them in the very early 70's gates were 14-15,000 and dropped to around 6-7k at the foot of the second tier, and the same again in the days of Chandler, Moores et al. I stood on the terrace when there was nder 3000 in the ground for a game v Darlo (or Doncaster - it began with D anyway!) - and that was Burnden, not an out-of-town shopping mall.

Question is, assuming relegation, how many season tickets will be sold, how many fans will be prepared to pay £7 (?) on the car park or nearly a fiver on the bus to watch a possibly struggling third division team? Probably a darned sight less than this season.

How much can they charge on the gate? Will they put free buses on, make it next-to-nowt to park? All that has to be factored in if they don't want the stadium 3/4 empty; it's a huge drop in income again.

These are good points that the club has to take into account. To some, paying a couple of quid for a parking space or a bus doesn't seem like a lot, but it does to others. I don't mind paying it at the moment (though I did a few years back when I was a skint student), but I know some people do. It's particularly galling when you consider how Burnden Park was easily accessible for many, situated as it was in the town centre. Getting to the Macron isn't as easy for a lot of fans, and it does cost money as well as inconvenience people.

And just when you fancy a nice pint or a good coffee inside the ground, you get shite in return for your efforts.

[BWFC_Insane]

Indeed there are - Chorley for one, whose catering is superb.

Nice bar too...but the team is rubbish this season!

Bolton's attendances have stayed fairly high, probably due to the sheer number of season-tickets sold (?). When I watched them in the very early 70's gates were 14-15,000 and dropped to around 6-7k at the foot of the second tier, and the same again in the days of Chandler, Moores et al. I stood on the terrace when there was nder 3000 in the ground for a game v Darlo (or Doncaster - it began with D anyway!) - and that was Burnden, not an out-of-town shopping mall.

Question is, assuming relegation, how many season tickets will be sold, how many fans will be prepared to pay £7 (?) on the car park or nearly a fiver on the bus to watch a possibly struggling third division team? Probably a darned sight less than this season.

How much can they charge on the gate? Will they put free buses on, make it next-to-nowt to park? All that has to be factored in if they don't want the stadium 3/4 empty; it's a huge drop in income again.

These are good points that the club has to take into account. To some, paying a couple of quid for a parking space or a bus doesn't seem like a lot, but it does to others. I don't mind paying it at the moment (though I did a few years back when I was a skint student), but I know some people do. It's particularly galling when you consider how Burnden Park was easily accessible for many, situated as it was in the town centre. Getting to the Macron isn't as easy for a lot of fans, and it does cost money as well as inconvenience people.

And just when you fancy a nice pint or a good coffee inside the ground, you get shite in return for your efforts.

And here is the nub of the issue. People in Bolton want a successful team. Yet they don't want to pay anything towards it. Club is broke.

It either relies or handouts from a rich owner or tries to generate more revenue. More revenue probably means prices going up.

People talk about wanting us run sustainably, but that probably means being a lower league team.

You can't have everything.

[midlands exile]

And here is the nub of the issue. People in Bolton want a successful team. Yet they don't want to pay anything towards it. Club is broke.

It either relies or handouts from a rich owner or tries to generate more revenue. More revenue probably means prices going up.

People talk about wanting us run sustainably, but that probably means being a lower league team.

You can't have everything.

Not true, people do want to pay towards the success of the club, but there is understandably a reluctance to do so if there is precious little value for money (not just the quality of football but the whole day out) and " the customer" is treated as an inconvenience. Smarter management of the non-playing side of things could make a big difference, although it would be pissing in the wind if we're relegated...

[Jugs]

Indeed there are - Chorley for one, whose catering is superb.

Nice bar too...but the team is rubbish this season!

Bolton's attendances have stayed fairly high, probably due to the sheer number of season-tickets sold (?). When I watched them in the very early 70's gates were 14-15,000 and dropped to around 6-7k at the foot of the second tier, and the same again in the days of Chandler, Moores et al. I stood on the terrace when there was nder 3000 in the ground for a game v Darlo (or Doncaster - it began with D anyway!) - and that was Burnden, not an out-of-town shopping mall.

Question is, assuming relegation, how many season tickets will be sold, how many fans will be prepared to pay £7 (?) on the car park or nearly a fiver on the bus to watch a possibly struggling third division team? Probably a darned sight less than this season.

How much can they charge on the gate? Will they put free buses on, make it next-to-nowt to park? All that has to be factored in if they don't want the stadium 3/4 empty; it's a huge drop in income again.

These are good points that the club has to take into account. To some, paying a couple of quid for a parking space or a bus doesn't seem like a lot, but it does to others. I don't mind paying it at the moment (though I did a few years back when I was a skint student), but I know some people do. It's particularly galling when you consider how Burnden Park was easily accessible for many, situated as it was in the town centre. Getting to the Macron isn't as easy for a lot of fans, and it does cost money as well as inconvenience people.

And just when you fancy a nice pint or a good coffee inside the ground, you get shite in return for your efforts.

And here is the nub of the issue. People in Bolton want a successful team. Yet they don't want to pay anything towards it. Club is broke.

It either relies or handouts from a rich owner or tries to generate more revenue. More revenue probably means prices going up.

People talk about wanting us run sustainably, but that probably means being a lower league team.

You can't have everything.

What I want is better products.

I don't mind paying decent whack for a decent product. I wouldn't even complain if they put the price up a little as long as the beer was better (and perhaps even stronger lol). At the moment, the choice between Carling and Worthington's really is pathetic.

The problem is that the products they are selling inside the ground are crap. We want value for money.

You could say "well, just don't buy it."

But I want a good matchday experience. I want to feel welcomed inside the stadium, and I want to be able to have a decent pre-match (and half-time) pint.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Indeed there are - Chorley for one, whose catering is superb.

Nice bar too...but the team is rubbish this season!

Bolton's attendances have stayed fairly high, probably due to the sheer number of season-tickets sold (?). When I watched them in the very early 70's gates were 14-15,000 and dropped to around 6-7k at the foot of the second tier, and the same again in the days of Chandler, Moores et al. I stood on the terrace when there was nder 3000 in the ground for a game v Darlo (or Doncaster - it began with D anyway!) - and that was Burnden, not an out-of-town shopping mall.

Question is, assuming relegation, how many season tickets will be sold, how many fans will be prepared to pay £7 (?) on the car park or nearly a fiver on the bus to watch a possibly struggling third division team? Probably a darned sight less than this season.

How much can they charge on the gate? Will they put free buses on, make it next-to-nowt to park? All that has to be factored in if they don't want the stadium 3/4 empty; it's a huge drop in income again.

These are good points that the club has to take into account. To some, paying a couple of quid for a parking space or a bus doesn't seem like a lot, but it does to others. I don't mind paying it at the moment (though I did a few years back when I was a skint student), but I know some people do. It's particularly galling when you consider how Burnden Park was easily accessible for many, situated as it was in the town centre. Getting to the Macron isn't as easy for a lot of fans, and it does cost money as well as inconvenience people.

And just when you fancy a nice pint or a good coffee inside the ground, you get shite in return for your efforts.

And here is the nub of the issue. People in Bolton want a successful team. Yet they don't want to pay anything towards it. Club is broke.

It either relies or handouts from a rich owner or tries to generate more revenue. More revenue probably means prices going up.

People talk about wanting us run sustainably, but that probably means being a lower league team.

You can't have everything.

What I want is better products.

I don't mind paying decent whack for a decent product. I wouldn't even complain if they put the price up a little as long as the beer was better (and perhaps even stronger lol). At the moment, the choice between Carling and Worthington's really is pathetic.

The problem is that the products they are selling inside the ground are crap. We want value for money.

You could say "well, just don't buy it."

But I want a good matchday experience. I want to feel welcomed inside the stadium, and I want to be able to have a decent pre-match (and half-time) pint.

How do the youth put this? Plusfxcking1

[boltonboris]

I'd wager that bigger gates = more commercial revenue and more likelihood of televised games etc..

Another thing, I know it's a tough one to measure.. Probably impossible, but my gut instinct is that if we had 20,000+ through the gates every home game, we wouldn't be bottom of the league

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The beer seems simple to change but I bet it isn't. Bravo to Brighton for what they do; a mate of mine goes regularly, loves it, gets particularly excited when he knows the guest beer is one he likes. But it's a lot more selling ("Have we got a beer for this weekend?") and a lot more faffing about changing supplier.

It's not impossible – festivals manage it – but I would wager that someone somewhere has sold the deal to Worthington/Carling (it's the same company, Molson Coors) on at least a season-long basis.

[Worthy4England]

The beer seems simple to change but I bet it isn't. Bravo to Brighton for what they do; a mate of mine goes regularly, loves it, gets particularly excited when he knows the guest beer is one he likes. But it's a lot more selling ("Have we got a beer for this weekend?") and a lot more faffing about changing supplier.

It's not impossible – festivals manage it – but I would wager that someone somewhere has sold the deal to Worthington/Carling (it's the same company, Molson Coors) on at least a season-long basis.

It's not like we seem to be short of staff - we have 300 on the books - surely someone could sort out a decent pint!

[Jugs]

The beer seems simple to change but I bet it isn't. Bravo to Brighton for what they do; a mate of mine goes regularly, loves it, gets particularly excited when he knows the guest beer is one he likes. But it's a lot more selling ("Have we got a beer for this weekend?") and a lot more faffing about changing supplier.

It's not impossible – festivals manage it – but I would wager that someone somewhere has sold the deal to Worthington/Carling (it's the same company, Molson Coors) on at least a season-long basis.

We've had Worthy's for a good few years now. Before that, we were subjected to John Smiths, which was equally as bad. In the plastic glasses, everything tastes even worse.

I've heard about what Brighton do, and it sounds good. Fans will appreciate that kind of effort. At the moment, there are some of us who just feel like we're treated with contempt.

They put things on for kids and families (including the abominable Fan Zone), but that's about it. In the north upper tier, they've now got a small area where kids can play football, as well as PlayStations. But again, it's all aimed at kids. The rest of us are expected to stand around drinking shite lager while watching a bizarrely chosen repeat of Liverpool v Everton.

[Bruce Rioja]

The beer seems simple to change but I bet it isn't. Bravo to Brighton for what they do; a mate of mine goes regularly, loves it, gets particularly excited when he knows the guest beer is one he likes. But it's a lot more selling ("Have we got a beer for this weekend?") and a lot more faffing about changing supplier.

It's not impossible – festivals manage it – but I would wager that someone somewhere has sold the deal to Worthington/Carling (it's the same company, Molson Coors) on at least a season-long basis.

Molson Coors are also responsible for Marston's Pedigree. That please!