Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by Prufrock » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:35 am

thebish wrote:
Prufrock wrote: Nothing worse than someone who spends hours on something, trying to make it look like they wrote it in 5 mins, and it still being obvious they spent ages.

show us how it's done, Pru... write a season preview for our front page.. we've not had one for ages...
What, and set myself to have a load of internet knob-heads slag me off :mrgreen: ? No chance!

I've been trying to get football is happening to be fair, had forgotten the season started this week. I'll try to write one for the next big deal. Like getting rid of Darren. Or an away win.
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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:09 pm

Not sure it's been noted elsewhere, but just in case: us game at Peterborough is on the telly, Sun 13 Nov at 12.15pm KO.

http://www.efl.com/global/tvgames.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by thebish » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:59 pm

This league is clearly a walk in the park! :-)

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by thebish » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:57 pm

Hey Bish, have you got a pic of the league 1 table right now?

ooooh yes...

Image

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by twilight » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:18 pm

At this moment in time, I love this league and that table above :)

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:07 pm

Should be a good game on Saturday. Whilst we're unbeaten, they must be too, given 5 points from 3 games...

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:02 am

Not sure this is a reason to be cheerful, but perhaps a reason to be hopeful...doesn't fit entirely but didn't want a new thread....

So was thinking, when was the last time we had a manager proven at the level (or above) we are/were at? Because PP has been promoted from this league and also maintained an ever improving Bradford side in it and pushed them as high as the play offs. Now whilst not glorious his record does reflect solidity and knowledge of our current level.

So if you go back...

Lennon....Not proven in English football and Scottish football level is questionable at best.
Freedman...Not proven full stop.
Coyle....Certainly not proven in the top flight when appointed. Not proven at any level over any serious period of time.
Megson...Not had premiership success when appointed. The opposite in fact.
Lee...Not even been a manager
Allardyce...Certainly not proven at the top two tiers when appointed but clearly had made great strides in his career at the time
Todd...Not a proven manager over any period.
McFarland...Nuff said.

Which brings us to Rioch, who was probably the last manager we had who had operated at the level or higher for a fairly decent period before Bolton got him.

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by CrazyHorse » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:22 am

So you don't consider Lennon being a regular manager in the champions league before he came to us in the championship as operating at a higher level then?
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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:26 am

CrazyHorse wrote:So you don't consider Lennon being a regular manager in the champions league before he came to us in the championship as operating at a higher level then?
Righty ho.
No. Because he was in a league whereby the team he managed basically would qualify by default. The level certainly isn't comparable. All he was proven at was winning a league where only two teams could and where his club's budget dwarfed the rest apart from Rangers by a huge amount. It certainly didn't make him proven in a very competitive far more level playing field here.

Totally think he was unproven. Hence why he's gone back up to Scotland.

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by CrazyHorse » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:35 am

Oh ok you're right. Managing in the champions league is not at a higher level than the championship. I must be really dumb to suggest otherwise.

ffs.
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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:41 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:Not sure this is a reason to be cheerful, but perhaps a reason to be hopeful...doesn't fit entirely but didn't want a new thread....

So was thinking, when was the last time we had a manager proven at the level (or above) we are/were at? Because PP has been promoted from this league and also maintained an ever improving Bradford side in it and pushed them as high as the play offs. Now whilst not glorious his record does reflect solidity and knowledge of our current level.

So if you go back...

Lennon....Not proven in English football and Scottish football level is questionable at best.
Freedman...Not proven full stop.
Coyle....Certainly not proven in the top flight when appointed. Not proven at any level over any serious period of time.
Megson...Not had premiership success when appointed. The opposite in fact.
Lee...Not even been a manager
Allardyce...Certainly not proven at the top two tiers when appointed but clearly had made great strides in his career at the time
Todd...Not a proven manager over any period.
McFarland...Nuff said.

Which brings us to Rioch, who was probably the last manager we had who had operated at the level or higher for a fairly decent period before Bolton got him.
It's an interesting point. Going back further:

Neal - unproven at any level
Wright - unproven at that level (had managed York in D4, unsuccessfully; we were D3)
McGovern - unproven at any level
Mulhall - unproven at that level (had managed Halifax in D3 & Bradford in D3; we were D2)
Anderson – took us down from D1 then couldn't get us back up from D2 at the first attempt. He had taken Boro up from D3 at the first attempt then finished in the upper reaches of D2 for several successive seasons without going up again; after he resigned Jack Charlton took them straight up

Which takes us back to Ian Greaves, who had taken Huddersfield up to the top flight (and then, erm, down two divisions - they went down again the year after he became Jimmy Armfield's assistant at Burnden).

In other words, how often have we had a manager proven at the right level?

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by Andy Waller » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:57 am

CrazyHorse wrote:Oh ok you're right. Managing in the champions league is not at a higher level than the championship. I must be really dumb to suggest otherwise.

ffs.

It depends how you got there though doesn't it?

Like Insane says, they qualify virtually by default up there so the league is sewn up without any problem.

After that, it's a case of whether you have a good cup run or not.
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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by CrazyHorse » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:35 am

Andy Waller wrote:It depends how you got there though doesn't it?
No it doesn't. It's a fecking higher level no matter how you sugarcoat it.
Insania made this statement:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Which brings us to Rioch, who was probably the last manager we had who had operated at the level or higher for a fairly decent period before Bolton got him.
Wrong. The last manger we had who operated at a higher level for a fairly decent period (wasn't it like four years?) before Bolton got him was Neil Lennon.

It doesn't make him any good and it certainly doesn't make Scottish football any good but it's a solid gold fact.
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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:40 am

CrazyHorse wrote:
Andy Waller wrote:It depends how you got there though doesn't it?
No it doesn't. It's a fecking higher level no matter how you sugarcoat it.
Insania made this statement:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Which brings us to Rioch, who was probably the last manager we had who had operated at the level or higher for a fairly decent period before Bolton got him.
Wrong. The last manger we had who operated at a higher level for a fairly decent period (wasn't it like four years?) before Bolton got him was Neil Lennon.

It doesn't make him any good and it certainly doesn't make Scottish football any good but it's a solid gold fact.
Wrong. The Scottish league is not a higher level. And that is what I'm talking about. The champions league is a cup competition that Celtic qualify for virtually by default because of the lack of competition in their league. That does not represent the level Lennon managed at on a week to week basis. He managed at a club which dwarfed the budgets of the rest in a piss poor league.

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by CrazyHorse » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:44 am

So in other words, you've spewed a load of bollox and as per when you've been called out on it you pretend that what you actually said wasn't what you actually said. :roll:
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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:58 am

CrazyHorse wrote:So in other words, you've spewed a load of bollox and as per when you've been called out on it you pretend that what you actually said wasn't what you actually said. :roll:
Lennon....Not proven in English football and Scottish football level is questionable at best.
Was what I said. To the word exactly. Tell me which bit of that sentence you think is wrong.

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by CrazyHorse » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:59 pm

Thing with you is you're too stubborn to admit when you've painted yourself into a corner.
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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:12 pm

CrazyHorse wrote:Thing with you is you're too stubborn to admit when you've painted yourself into a corner.
As above, show me, in that sentence what part is "wrong". It is fine to disagree with what I said, but what I said was that Scottish football is of a questionable level.

My post was about managerial know-how for the job at hand. Lennon did not have that. His only experience was managing one of two good sides in a very poor league. He did manage some champions league games, but we're talking proven at a level as per my post. Megson managed more premiership games than Lennon did champions league ones. It did not make either proven at that respective level.

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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by CrazyHorse » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:23 pm

Right, despite knowing I'm pissing in the wind and that you'll come back with another version of events even though the facts are laid out right in front of you..here goes.

You made a statement about Bolton's recent managers not having had any previous managerial experience at a higher level. Agreed?
Then you went on to quanitify this by listing each of their highest previous experiences. With me so far?
You then summerised at the end with "Which brings us to Rioch, who was probably the last manager we had who had operated at the level or higher for a fairly decent period before Bolton got him". Are we still on the same page?
I called you out on this. Comprende?
You argued the toss that you didn't say what you said. Yes?
Then we got here:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Lennon....Not proven in English football and Scottish football level is questionable at best.
Was what I said. To the word exactly. Tell me which bit of that sentence you think is wrong.
There's nothing wrong with that sentence, except for the minor detail of not actually listing the highest level he's managed at.

Happy?
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Re: Reasons To Be Cheerful (Tier 3)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:45 pm

CrazyHorse wrote:Right, despite knowing I'm pissing in the wind and that you'll come back with another version of events even though the facts are laid out right in front of you..here goes.

You made a statement about Bolton's recent managers not having had any previous managerial experience at a higher level. Agreed?
Then you went on to quanitify this by listing each of their highest previous experiences. With me so far?
You then summerised at the end with "Which brings us to Rioch, who was probably the last manager we had who had operated at the level or higher for a fairly decent period before Bolton got him". Are we still on the same page?
I called you out on this. Comprende?
You argued the toss that you didn't say what you said. Yes?
Then we got here:
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Lennon....Not proven in English football and Scottish football level is questionable at best.
Was what I said. To the word exactly. Tell me which bit of that sentence you think is wrong.
There's nothing wrong with that sentence, except for the minor detail of not actually listing the highest level he's managed at.

Happy?
Well you've missed out "proven at a level". Megson had managed in the premiership before us. That did not make him proven.

But even withstanding that, I listed the LEAGUES they'd managed in. I didn't mention cup runs. And I'd dispute very strongly that Lennon is a "proven champions league manager". IF even being a champions league manager is a level. I'd argue Sam Allardyce is proven at a far higher level than Lennon, despite never managing in the champions league. Getting into the champions league is reflective of the league you're in. I'm far from convinced that by default managing a team who has competed in the CL is indicative of a level in itself.

You'd obviously argue Lennon is a proven Champions League manager and therefore proven at a higher level than Allardyce. But me, I'd disagree with that.

Happy?

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