For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:30 pm

Worthy4England wrote:http://www.efl.com/global/appendix5.aspx

Clause 10.2.1

Edit: I'm not sure that we're in a one in, one out situation or whether to get one player in, we'd just have to move someone out to make some headroom so we didn't breach the cap...So if we got rid of Mavies, Pratley and Amos, I'm not sure we could only bring three players in...because that would allegedly release quite a lot of salary...(although in our situation I don't think they count anyhow as they were signed prior to 1 Sept last season....)
Some interesting stuff in there. Much talk (in passing) of "24 players" - we may be near that, by the FL's definition. (For instance, we fans might not count Walker or WIlkinson, but he may pass the criteria.)
Prufrock wrote:Think it was more complicated than just signed before Sept wasn't it? Otherwise given or state last year the only people who *would* count would be this summer's signings, and if they are pushing the wage cap on their own we really are screwed!
I think that's the point, though, isn't it?

The legislation is designed to stop clubs paying wages which are out of their league. Trouble is, what's "overpaying" is different in different leagues, which is why there are (temporary) exemptions for clubs who get relegated – to allow for the almost inevitable overspend on wages to players on (say) "Championship contracts". Or, in our case, there might be some who are on Premier-level contracts, either by extending initial deals (Davies, Pratley) or by imitating previous deals at higher clubs (Spearing, Amos).

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Thanks Worthy. That definitely seems to capture it. 10.2.1 (b) states..the annual Employee Cost of the Player coming in is no more than 75% of the equivalent annual Employee Cost (as defined by Note 10.3) of the Player going out (calculated as an average over the term of the remaining period of both Players’ contracts, taking note of any contract cancellation payments where relevant);

That seems quite limiting but presumably the one in, one out has been in place all summer, and so covers the departure of high earning Wheater, and the likes of Feeney, plus the other outgoings, which covers us for the lower earning Wheater, and all the other incomings, and still allow for a 25%+ saving, and presumably stay within the general 75% of turnover, a turnover presumably boosted by the wider business of the stadium, hotel etc plus whatever KA and co have put in.

I think it was people who signed and who are on contracts over 3 years and signed prior to Sept of the relegation year can be carried in addition to the other SCMP stipulations? So just Amos in our case?

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:39 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Worthy4England wrote:http://www.efl.com/global/appendix5.aspx

Clause 10.2.1

Edit: I'm not sure that we're in a one in, one out situation or whether to get one player in, we'd just have to move someone out to make some headroom so we didn't breach the cap...So if we got rid of Mavies, Pratley and Amos, I'm not sure we could only bring three players in...because that would allegedly release quite a lot of salary...(although in our situation I don't think they count anyhow as they were signed prior to 1 Sept last season....)
Some interesting stuff in there. Much talk (in passing) of "24 players" - we may be near that, by the FL's definition. (For instance, we fans might not count Walker or WIlkinson, but he may pass the criteria.)
Prufrock wrote:Think it was more complicated than just signed before Sept wasn't it? Otherwise given or state last year the only people who *would* count would be this summer's signings, and if they are pushing the wage cap on their own we really are screwed!
I think that's the point, though, isn't it?

The legislation is designed to stop clubs paying wages which are out of their league. Trouble is, what's "overpaying" is different in different leagues, which is why there are (temporary) exemptions for clubs who get relegated – to allow for the almost inevitable overspend on wages to players on (say) "Championship contracts". Or, in our case, there might be some who are on Premier-level contracts, either by extending initial deals (Davies, Pratley) or by imitating previous deals at higher clubs (Spearing, Amos).
It's also there to stop repayable "Director (related party) loans" which Club's could never afford to pay back, leading to asset stripping. Related Party can put as much in as they want, as long as it's not payable back...

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:49 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:I think it was people who signed and who are on contracts over 3 years and signed prior to Sept of the relegation year can be carried in addition to the other stipulations? So just Amos in our case?
According to this handy-but-in-need-of-updating list and link farm:
Spearing is in the last year of a four-year contract
Davies signed a 3.5yr extension in Feb 2013
Dervite signed a 3yr deal in summer 2014
So did Moxey
So did Trotter
Clayton signed a 3yr deal in Sep 2014
Wilkinson signed a 3.5yr extension in Dec 2014
Vela signed before summer 2015
Pratley signed a three-year contract in summer 2015
So did Derik

In fact if all the above are exempt the only pre-Parky wages I can see we're eligible to be judged upon are Zach (extended Oct 2015), Wilson, Pisano and Madine.

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by Prufrock » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:07 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Worthy4England wrote:http://www.efl.com/global/appendix5.aspx

Clause 10.2.1

Edit: I'm not sure that we're in a one in, one out situation or whether to get one player in, we'd just have to move someone out to make some headroom so we didn't breach the cap...So if we got rid of Mavies, Pratley and Amos, I'm not sure we could only bring three players in...because that would allegedly release quite a lot of salary...(although in our situation I don't think they count anyhow as they were signed prior to 1 Sept last season....)
Some interesting stuff in there. Much talk (in passing) of "24 players" - we may be near that, by the FL's definition. (For instance, we fans might not count Walker or WIlkinson, but he may pass the criteria.)
Prufrock wrote:Think it was more complicated than just signed before Sept wasn't it? Otherwise given or state last year the only people who *would* count would be this summer's signings, and if they are pushing the wage cap on their own we really are screwed!
I think that's the point, though, isn't it?

The legislation is designed to stop clubs paying wages which are out of their league. Trouble is, what's "overpaying" is different in different leagues, which is why there are (temporary) exemptions for clubs who get relegated – to allow for the almost inevitable overspend on wages to players on (say) "Championship contracts". Or, in our case, there might be some who are on Premier-level contracts, either by extending initial deals (Davies, Pratley) or by imitating previous deals at higher clubs (Spearing, Amos).
I think what I was thinking of was that it only includes players signed before Sept and have 3 years left on their contract (which someone said was the case last time this came up).

My point was that if the only wages we had to count were the 5 or 6 we signed this summer, then there's no way we can be anywhere near the 75% of turnover cap. If we are we are completely screwed!
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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by KeyserSoze » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:25 pm

Amos to Cardiff according to the BN

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/14 ... ty_switch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:25 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:Amos to Cardiff according to the BN

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/14 ... ty_switch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Well there you go. DSB - ITK.

Who we signing then DSB?

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by Prufrock » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:44 pm

Assuming KA has stuck to his guns re: not paying players to play for someone else....result! Huge wage shifted, at least for a year.

Hope he does well and then they can buy him too.
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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:45 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:Amos to Cardiff according to the BN

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/14 ... ty_switch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Assuming they're taking on the full wage, this is good news. Obviously we need to get in competent cover, but that must be doable for less money.

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by jetsetwilly » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:46 pm

Good riddance. No wonder we are still paying a large chunk of his ridiculous wages. One of the worst keeps I have seen at BWFC.

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:50 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:Good riddance. No wonder we are still paying a large chunk of his ridiculous wages. One of the worst keeps I have seen at BWFC.
Eh? :crazy:

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by bobo the clown » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:58 pm

Well he certainly looked the part when he joined us. He seemed to suffer more than most in the farago of last season and his confidence was shot to pieces. Some people thrive in difficulties, others go under .... and boy did he go under !!

Uneasy coming for the ball and his ability to miss long shots became legendary. I cannot believe he is actually as bad as he became but he's no use to us sitting on the bench, collecting £10k pw (??) and not being trusted if he was ever to be called upon.

Good luck to him, really. But let's get a decent good value one in before/as he exits.
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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:08 pm

bobo the clown wrote:Well he certainly looked the part when he joined us. He seemed to suffer more than most in the garago of last season and his confidence was shot to pieces. Some people thrive in difficulties, others go under .... and boy did he go under !!

Uneasy coming for the ball and his ability to miss long shots became legendary. I cannot believe he is actually as bad as he became but he's no use to us sitting on the bench, collecting £10k pw (??) and not being trusted if he was ever to be called upon.

Good luck to him, really. But let's get a decent good value one in before/as he exits.
Presumably his wage would be for signing a striker/winger not sure how much there would be left for a backup keeper. But we would need one.

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:34 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:I think it was people who signed and who are on contracts over 3 years and signed prior to Sept of the relegation year can be carried in addition to the other stipulations? So just Amos in our case?
According to this handy-but-in-need-of-updating list and link farm:
Spearing is in the last year of a four-year contract
Davies signed a 3.5yr extension in Feb 2013
Dervite signed a 3yr deal in summer 2014
So did Moxey
So did Trotter
Clayton signed a 3yr deal in Sep 2014
Wilkinson signed a 3.5yr extension in Dec 2014
Vela signed before summer 2015
Pratley signed a three-year contract in summer 2015
So did Derik

In fact if all the above are exempt the only pre-Parky wages I can see we're eligible to be judged upon are Zach (extended Oct 2015), Wilson, Pisano and Madine.
Think the precise wording is "in excess of three years". But certainly Spearing, Davies and Wilkinson would be added to Amos.

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:39 pm

bobo the clown wrote:Well he certainly looked the part when he joined us. He seemed to suffer more than most in the farago of last season and his confidence was shot to pieces. Some people thrive in difficulties, others go under .... and boy did he go under !!

Uneasy coming for the ball and his ability to miss long shots became legendary. I cannot believe he is actually as bad as he became but he's no use to us sitting on the bench, collecting £10k pw (??) and not being trusted if he was ever to be called upon.

Good luck to him, really. But let's get a decent good value one in before/as he exits.
Think the list that DSB supplied a few weeks ago suggested Amos is on £16k pw, which is huge for this league and very healthy in the championship. Questionable business in 2015 to sign him on that contract when we were clearly starting to feel the pinch.

In the circumstances this loan seems excellent business.

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by thebish » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:10 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
KeyserSoze wrote:Amos to Cardiff according to the BN

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/14 ... ty_switch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Well there you go. DSB - ITK.

:lol:
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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:35 pm

Lee Anderson has retweeted a couple of people asking if we can swap Amos for Le Fondre.....just saying.....

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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by thebish » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:37 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:Lee Anderson has retweeted a couple of people asking if we can swap Amos for Le Fondre.....just saying.....

I thought Lee was saying we'd be getting better than Le Fondre...
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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by KeyserSoze » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:37 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Lee Anderson has retweeted a couple of people asking if we can swap Amos for Le Fondre.....just saying.....

I thought Lee was saying we'd be getting better than Le Fondre...
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Re: For new signings, ask the man from the Pru

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:39 pm

thebish wrote:
BWFC_Insane wrote:Lee Anderson has retweeted a couple of people asking if we can swap Amos for Le Fondre.....just saying.....

I thought Lee was saying we'd be getting better than Le Fondre...
Well he said 'Can we sign BETTER?' the other day...perhaps the answer to that question is no.

Though I suspect he is retweeting now for a laugh!

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