Tired excuses..

[LeverEnd]

I'm not entirely comfortable with the 'Our players are spineless' argument. I do think our squad was good enough for mid table, perhaps with the addition of a half decent striker, but for me, our tactics and team selections this year have been absolutely baffling. Lennon was given far too long and ultimately, the relegation is down to him. Yes, senior players should have stood up more, but if we had converted just 10% more of the chances we created, I'm sure we wouldn't be down and out. Relegation is down to more than one causal factor, but for me the biggest was poor management, both in and out of match time.

Lennon was poor agreed. But the players have done the same thing each manager. Play well for a while under the new guy, show they are capable, then drop off and blame the manager or external factors.

They are weak mentally in my view and don't want to take responsibility.

Indeed.
I think it's known as a clusterfuck.

[SmokinFrazier]

I strongly disagree with all this "the players are soft", "they don't care", "they don't try" sort of argument from football fans. The number of players who genuinely don't care is tiny and the fact is, because those players don't have that sort of competitive edge you need in sport, they're the talented players who will tear apart teams in Sunday league games every now and then because they've got the talent but if they had a better attitude, they'd be playing professionally in the Championship or Premier League. The idea that top level professionals genuinely don't care - especially those who you all slag off for being technically inept - is such a naive stance. If you don't think that players care, why was Lennon so disliked by the team and why wasn't everyone just having a laugh, collecting their big wages and enjoying themselves? It's an argument which genuinely annoys me because it's so untrue, yet as soon as things are tough, it's the default argument fans fall back on. I understand that there's a real disconnect because fans and players because of money but you can't always say that someone doesn't care just because they're on big wages and will be regardless of results. Teams don't fail because the players don't care. What happens is that the team is struggling, their heads go down and things become more difficult because the team lack unity, clear direction and proper coaching but to simplify this issue so much just isn't right.

Like I said in another post, fans being angry means they'll always resort to these arguments because it satisfies their frustration but I don't agree with it. Our problems are down to poor coaching (Coyle, Freedman and Lennon) and appalling man management (Freedman and Lennon) but sort those things out and this time next year, we'll be praising a Championship bound team for their effort and attitude.

[Hoboh]

I strongly disagree with all this "the players are soft", "they don't care", "they don't try" sort of argument from football fans. The number of players who genuinely don't care is tiny and the fact is, because those players don't have that sort of competitive edge you need in sport, they're the talented players who will tear apart teams in Sunday league games every now and then because they've got the talent but if they had a better attitude, they'd be playing professionally in the Championship or Premier League. The idea that top level professionals genuinely don't care - especially those who you all slag off for being technically inept - is such a naive stance. If you don't think that players care, why was Lennon so disliked by the team and why wasn't everyone just having a laugh, collecting their big wages and enjoying themselves? It's an argument which genuinely annoys me because it's so untrue, yet as soon as things are tough, it's the default argument fans fall back on. I understand that there's a real disconnect because fans and players because of money but you can't always say that someone doesn't care just because they're on big wages and will be regardless of results. Teams don't fail because the players don't care. What happens is that the team is struggling, their heads go down and things become more difficult because the team lack unity, clear direction and proper coaching but to simplify this issue so much just isn't right.

Like I said in another post, fans being angry means they'll always resort to these arguments because it satisfies their frustration but I don't agree with it. Our problems are down to poor coaching (Coyle, Freedman and Lennon) and appalling man management (Freedman and Lennon) but sort those things out and this time next year, we'll be praising a Championship bound team for their effort and attitude.

So when player gets beaten and he just trots off instead of busting a gut to get the ball back he cares? Okay thanks for making it simple then.

[Prufrock]

I'm not sure they "care" any less than any other set of paid professionals. I am sure they're a bunch of mentally weak, spineless losers. There's been plenty evidence for that over the last few years.

I like that SF's dad gets a sky backhanded compliment for his man management skills :lmao: the loser mentality started on his watch and we've never managed to turn it around.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm not sure they "care" any less than any other set of paid professionals. I am sure they're a bunch of mentally weak, spineless losers. There's been plenty evidence for that over the last few years.

I like that SF's dad gets a sky backhanded compliment for his man management skills :lmao: the loser mentality started on his watch and we've never managed to turn it around.

He certainly recruited increasingly spineless players.

As you say there is a difference between not caring and not standing up and taking responsibility. I'm sure lots of our players want to be in a winning side. But they seem to attribute not winning to everything else bar their own efforts....

[Peter Thompson]

I strongly disagree with all this "the players are soft", "they don't care", "they don't try" sort of argument from football fans. The number of players who genuinely don't care is tiny and the fact is, because those players don't have that sort of competitive edge you need in sport, they're the talented players who will tear apart teams in Sunday league games every now and then because they've got the talent but if they had a better attitude, they'd be playing professionally in the Championship or Premier League. The idea that top level professionals genuinely don't care - especially those who you all slag off for being technically inept - is such a naive stance. If you don't think that players care, why was Lennon so disliked by the team and why wasn't everyone just having a laugh, collecting their big wages and enjoying themselves? It's an argument which genuinely annoys me because it's so untrue, yet as soon as things are tough, it's the default argument fans fall back on. I understand that there's a real disconnect because fans and players because of money but you can't always say that someone doesn't care just because they're on big wages and will be regardless of results. Teams don't fail because the players don't care. What happens is that the team is struggling, their heads go down and things become more difficult because the team lack unity, clear direction and proper coaching but to simplify this issue so much just isn't right.

Like I said in another post, fans being angry means they'll always resort to these arguments because it satisfies their frustration but I don't agree with it. Our problems are down to poor coaching (Coyle, Freedman and Lennon) and appalling man management (Freedman and Lennon) but sort those things out and this time next year, we'll be praising a Championship bound team for their effort and attitude.

Smokin, I respect your opinion but totally disagree - our players are a fcuking disgrace and want fcuking off ASAP, we need a complete clear out of the overpaid weak as piss arseholes.

Ken will get shut of them one way or another....he's no push over, like the previous regime !

[Lord Kangana]

Yeah, I can't take anyone seriously who doesn't include Gary Megson in a list of ineptitude like that.

I've just had a horrible thought that he'd walk to Bolton just to give us all the V's. Bollox.

[LeverEnd]

I can't believe anyone thinks it's either all bad management or shit players. It's clearly a combination of those but if I had to point the finger somewhere it would be coyle. He was criminally incompetent.
After that freedman was a dreadful choice but I blame gartside not him for that. By the time lennon got here we were fecked as a potential premier league side and then he fecked us as a championship side as well.

[Andy Waller]

I strongly disagree with all this "the players are soft", "they don't care", "they don't try" sort of argument from football fans. The number of players who genuinely don't care is tiny and the fact is, because those players don't have that sort of competitive edge you need in sport, they're the talented players who will tear apart teams in Sunday league games every now and then because they've got the talent but if they had a better attitude, they'd be playing professionally in the Championship or Premier League. The idea that top level professionals genuinely don't care - especially those who you all slag off for being technically inept - is such a naive stance. If you don't think that players care, why was Lennon so disliked by the team and why wasn't everyone just having a laugh, collecting their big wages and enjoying themselves? It's an argument which genuinely annoys me because it's so untrue, yet as soon as things are tough, it's the default argument fans fall back on. I understand that there's a real disconnect because fans and players because of money but you can't always say that someone doesn't care just because they're on big wages and will be regardless of results. Teams don't fail because the players don't care. What happens is that the team is struggling, their heads go down and things become more difficult because the team lack unity, clear direction and proper coaching but to simplify this issue so much just isn't right.

Like I said in another post, fans being angry means they'll always resort to these arguments because it satisfies their frustration but I don't agree with it. Our problems are down to poor coaching (Coyle, Freedman and Lennon) and appalling man management (Freedman and Lennon) but sort those things out and this time next year, we'll be praising a Championship bound team for their effort and attitude.

I have to disagree Smokes.

You're not telling me that (for example) Mard Davies gives a flying toss about the club.

I've seen him play this year and to my mind, all he's done is the bare minimum and try to avoid injury.

I'm not saying that the coaching has been A1, but it all comes down to the player on the day.

To consistently jump out of tackles and trot round the pitch without breaking sweat, you're not telling me he's bothered which division we're in.

In his defense, (if he's on this reported £17k a week) that's £884000 he's guaranteed of over the next year. Surely that makes you a bit more "relaxed" than being on week to week payment?!

I'm sorry to get all "my mate sez..." but I have heard from someone who's close to Roy Greaves and Reidy has told him there's 6 players that have just given up. Won't train properly and genuinely don't care.

Who these are, he didn't say, but i think most of us can guess.

[TonyDomingos]

I see Villa have announced today that they are scrapping their end of season awards due to their impending relegation and the general belief amongst the supporters that the players are to blame. We should think about doing the same.

[Worthy4England]

I see Villa have announced today that they are scrapping their end of season awards due to their impending relegation and the general belief amongst the supporters that the players are to blame. We should think about doing the same.

Not sure we should spend a long time thinking about it...

[Bruce Rioja]

I see Villa have announced today that they are scrapping their end of season awards due to their impending relegation and the general belief amongst the supporters that the players are to blame. We should think about doing the same.

I can't see that we've any plans to hold one anyway, Tony (except some kids bash).

[TonyDomingos]

I see Villa have announced today that they are scrapping their end of season awards due to their impending relegation and the general belief amongst the supporters that the players are to blame. We should think about doing the same.

I can't see that we've any plans to hold one anyway, Tony (except some kids bash).

Ah, thanks you saved me some embarrassment. I was just about to launch a full-on social media campaign demanding the awards be scrapped and that all the players publish their tax returns and voting intentions for the euro referendum. Or summat.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

But they're twice as hopeless as us, as Saturday's banners prove.





Maybe our mutual kit makers Macron can peddle a lucrative line in banners...

[KeyserSoze]

Pretty poor effort for banners tbf.

[TonyDomingos]

Pretty poor effort for banners tbf.

Bang on trend actually. They're called "craft banners" and are made in a pop-up in shoreditch by a bloke with a beard. Fact.

[KeyserSoze]

I believe the term is 'distressed' banner

[bobo the clown]

I believe the term is 'distressed' banner

Like "shabby chique" ??

Coz we're bloody shabby.

[TonyDomingos]

I believe the term is 'distressed' banner

Like "shabby chique" ??

Coz we're bloody shabby.

And we're "chite"?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Darren could do with just shutting up. He's digging a bigger hole each appearance in the BeN.

I hear people say we need characters and leaders – but when we got relegated from the Premier League we had people like Paul Robinson in there, people with a lot of character, so it becomes something people just say.

To compare that relegation with the one this season is bizarre. This season we were utterly hopeless and had we been in the Conference I'm certain we'd have been equally pathetic and relegated from there. We at least had a chance of staying up during that Premiership season and hadn't given up before Christmas.