Out, damned Spotland, I say. Rochdale (A) 27/9/16

[Peter Thompson]

Parkinson has brought in around 10 players of his own, almost a full team with many from the championship - how he didn't see that we needed midfield guile, energy, steel & creativity is worrying.

If he thought that he had the creativity in M Davies then that's understandable, but also very naïve given his injury record and if he thought that Trotter and / or Vela would give him that he's also naïve and a poor judge of a player - again he has wasted wages / wasted squad places on Buxton & A Taylor, we didn't need FB's as much as we needed a couple of proper central midfielders (not defensive midfielders) and until we get proper busy, hard working, creative midfielders into the side we will struggle - a midfield of Trotter, Vela & Spearing although probably the highest paid in League 1 by some distance is also probably the least hard working, creative or mobile.

[boltonboris]

We are so dull. So bereft of ideas. So direct. So set up to try not to lose.

So fvckin frustrating that if the opposition can score, they're almost guaranteed to win.

Parky has leeway, he deserves that, but fvck me, if he doesn't show a bit more ambition to win matches, I might just start turning on him

[Worthy4England]

Parkinson has brought in around 10 players of his own, almost a full team with many from the championship - how he didn't see that we needed midfield guile, energy, steel & creativity is worrying.

If he thought that he had the creativity in M Davies then that's understandable, but also very naïve given his injury record and if he thought that Trotter and / or Vela would give him that he's also naïve and a poor judge of a player - again he has wasted wages / wasted squad places on Buxton & A Taylor, we didn't need FB's as much as we needed a couple of proper central midfielders (not defensive midfielders) and until we get proper busy, hard working, creative midfielders into the side we will struggle - a midfield of Trotter, Vela & Spearing although probably the highest paid in League 1 by some distance is also probably the least hard working, creative or mobile.

I'm not disputing that we're not fun to watch PT, but the players we bought in were either all Free or on Loan. They didn't come from Championship clubs because they were "in the side every week", Championship level players. We got them because they couldn't get a game with their Championship club.

There should really be no reason why Trotter, Vela and Spearing should ever be in the same midfield. That's three people doing one person's job - I could see playing two occasionally.

[Bruce Rioja]

So, last night was my first game of the season. Please don't tell me that I now have seven month's worth of that that clueless, plan-less, gutless bollocks to watch - or I'm off to find a winter cricket league. Dear me, that was fecking horrible. I'd like to learn from a more discernible dissector of affairs than I as to what our gameplan was last night, because it looked to me to have been nothing other than Parkinson having read 11 names out in the dressing room followed by him then telling them to "Get stripped and feck off out there". Seriously. Fair play to a well organised and up-for-it Dale side who thoroughly deserved the points.

[Tombwfc]

The full-backs thing is odd. How many full-backs have we signed over the past two years, and how are they all significantly worse than Dean Moxey?

[boltonboris]

The full-backs thing is odd. How many full-backs have we signed over the past two years, and how are they all significantly worse than Dean Moxey?

Somebody said on twitter, that we've used 11 different full-backs in 2 years last night

[BWFC_Insane]

I mean for perspectives sake, the expectations were rock bottom over the summer. Raised by the start to the season, which, very very few fans saw coming.

Not saying that excuses what have been poor performances, but equally I think the difference is a little energy (which perhaps injuries etc have taken their toll) and taking the odd chance. Things look a whole lot better then those little things go for you. Again, I'm not saying we're just unlucky, we're not.

The problem is we've tried to fix this, by sacking managers and it hasn't worked. I genuinely think some expectations are too high. Not to downplay that we are pretty poor right now, but a couple of wins and we're easily back in the top 6, which would be a minor miracle considering where we were back in June. Of course the risk is there now, as it always was that the slide continues. But honestly we can keep fumbling around changing managers, but for whatever reason that has only brought more problems on top of problems.

I think it is harsh to say Parkinson has brought in "his own" players. He's brought in what he could. On the face of it, they seemed reasonable signings. Not a single person wanted Conor Wilkinson to stay, he was getting dogs abuse from the terraces, yet he goes elsewhere and scores goals. He hasn't looked like doing that here under 3 different managers. Perhaps the issues can't be fixed miraculously with a "magic appointment" but time is needed to re-establish the club and put in place the key aspects of what it is about.

End of the day I'm interested to see what Ken does here, because I'm sure his expectations were raised too, but I'm very wary of chasing the magic managerial appointment because we've tried that ad infinitum and it has left us nowhere.

[Bruce Rioja]

I've just watched Henry's miss again. It actually IS that fecking bad!

[boltonboris]

The problem is we've tried to fix this, by sacking managers and it hasn't worked.

And it will continue not working. You can put our ridiculous injury records down to this too, I'd wager.

So many different managers, with so many different ideas and each time, uprooting the people who come in to assess and keep players fit.

[BWFC_Insane]

The problem is we've tried to fix this, by sacking managers and it hasn't worked.

And it will continue not working. You can put our ridiculous injury records down to this too, I'd wager.

So many different managers, with so many different ideas and each time, uprooting the people who come in to assess and keep players fit.

Would need to do some analysis as to how many injuries are preventable or possible to reduce the likelihood of vs how many are unpreventable.

I think SOME of our injury situation has been bad luck. Sadly we seem to have had a large string of it. Some clearly isn't.

But how long does that take to sort? Probably years because you have to get them fit, recondition, implement the right recovery etc etc...That won't happen in a few months. Which is where you need faith that you have the right team in doing that.

[Worthy4England]

We aren't going to fix it either, by keeping the wrong person in, as Team Manager...

Cuts both ways. If you look at what's occurred in since Allardyce.

Lee - wrong pick - not a manager - we were right to sack him quickly and move on.
Megson - kept us up, got us reasonable safe-ish then looked like taking us down.
Coyle - kept us up, stuck with him, took us down, stuck with him - flirted him after an appalling start.
Freedman - kept us up, nearly got us into the play-offs - sacked after worst start in 100 years.
Lennon - kept us up marginally, didn't actually get much better, sacked when it was inevitable we were going down.

I'd struggle to criticize any of those sackings, and there isn't one amongst them that I'd want back.

[boltonboris]

We aren't going to fix it either, by keeping the wrong person in, as Team Manager...

Cuts both ways. If you look at what's occurred in since Allardyce.

Lee - wrong pick - not a manager - we were right to sack him quickly and move on.
Megson - kept us up, got us reasonable safe-ish then looked like taking us down.
Coyle - kept us up, stuck with him, took us down, stuck with him - flirted him after an appalling start.
Freedman - kept us up, nearly got us into the play-offs - sacked after worst start in 100 years.
Lennon - kept us up marginally, didn't actually get much better, sacked when it was inevitable we were going down.

I'd struggle to criticize any of those sackings, and there isn't one amongst them that I'd want back.

I agree, but at some point, we need to take a longer term risk. Either that, or employ our own backroom people, create a certain style and method across all age groups and make sure the manager current, or future, uses the people the club have brought in.

everyone has their own fitness coaches, their own analysts, their own fvckin tea lady. At some point, you've got to build the club around your own people and recruit around it. (imho of course)

[BWFC_Insane]

We aren't going to fix it either, by keeping the wrong person in, as Team Manager...

Cuts both ways. If you look at what's occurred in since Allardyce.

Lee - wrong pick - not a manager - we were right to sack him quickly and move on.
Megson - kept us up, got us reasonable safe-ish then looked like taking us down.
Coyle - kept us up, stuck with him, took us down, stuck with him - flirted him after an appalling start.
Freedman - kept us up, nearly got us into the play-offs - sacked after worst start in 100 years.
Lennon - kept us up marginally, didn't actually get much better, sacked when it was inevitable we were going down.

I'd struggle to criticize any of those sackings, and there isn't one amongst them that I'd want back.

We've been saying "IF we get the right man" for ages. I'm not so sure there is a "right man".

Allardyce was truly exceptional. Look at Moyes (somebody many of our fans have asked for as manager here from time to time) at Sunderland, struggling.

I think the reality is that there are a load of average managers out there. And those average managers do ok, sometimes well, sometimes poorly, depending upon circumstances. There may be 1 in a 100 who is truly gifted. But we cannot keep searching and searching.

I think the notion that there is a "right man" is flawed.

We've a manager who has worked extensively at this level, has a promotion from it, took Bradford from the level below and improved their position year on year. Not a spectacular record granted, but probably better than many in this division. He seems relatively sensible. If given time there is little to suggest he'll be a disaster. Perhaps neither a raging success but again, we are where we are.

[Worthy4England]

I'm certainly a fair way out from launching a "Parky Out" thread.

Which of our Managerial appointments do you think have been around finding the "right man" as opposed to getting shut of the "wrong man?" Which of our post-Allardyce managers would you have kept?

[Tombwfc]

Although Lennon resigned, so you couldn't have kept him even if you wanted to (which I accept, most didn't).

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm certainly a fair way out from launching a "Parky Out" thread.

Which of our Managerial appointments do you think have been around finding the "right man" as opposed to getting shut of the "wrong man?" Which of our post-Allardyce managers would you have kept?

I think the difference with those was they all had limited back catalogues in terms of relevant careers. So ultimately we had little evidence to say 'they know what they are doing and have enough track record to fall back on'.

Our current manager has that track record. Albeit not spectacular, enough to suggest if given time we won't be a disaster.

[ExiledViking]

Alreet, your resident Wigan fan here...
I did say at the end of last season that League 1 is a tough league to get out of, we didn't start coming good until after Christmas last season (yes, we were always in touching distance of the Top 6 but only in February did we really start cranking the gears up)
Your financial constraints could be the pivotal factor in whether you can come straight back up, we were lucky as we still had a parachute payment from the prem which enabled us to buy Yanic Wildschut (He, along with getting Jussi on a free turned our squad into real contenders).

KEEP THE FAITH!

PS. I would like to say Kaiyne Woolery is a fantastic signing, but as yet, we haven't seen him play lol ...Le Fondre did score a beauty last night though

[boltonboris]

enough to suggest if given time we won't be a disaster.

And I won't hear anybody say, we lack ambition

[Worthy4England]

I'm certainly a fair way out from launching a "Parky Out" thread.

Which of our Managerial appointments do you think have been around finding the "right man" as opposed to getting shut of the "wrong man?" Which of our post-Allardyce managers would you have kept?

I think the difference with those was they all had limited back catalogues in terms of relevant careers. So ultimately we had little evidence to say 'they know what they are doing and have enough track record to fall back on'.

Our current manager has that track record. Albeit not spectacular, enough to suggest if given time we won't be a disaster.

I wasn't yet suggesting we got rid. I don't think from our previous sackings, terminations by mutual consent and resignations, we've particularly been "trying to find the right man" - I think we've gotten rid of the wrong men.

[twilight]

Exiled Viking is probably correct, although I hate to admit because he's a Wigan fan but we need money. It's ok getting Frees and loans, if its' mixed with a few good signings...but that's the main crux of the matter, we just get the bottom of the barrel players I'm afraid