Swindon (A) 08/10/16 1pm - Match Thread

[Bruce Rioja]

At least we know the booing of individuals isn't confined to just our cretins. England's highest ever goalscorer got booed yesterday. Ludicrous

Whilst he was playing most of the game 10 yards in front of the centre backs. Absolute wankers. A cross-field ball that he put into Kyle Walker's feet was worth the entrance money on its own.

[Nicko58]

I'm suggesting that fans refrain from booing and shouting abuse at players like Chris Taylor after just a handful of games.

And Amen to that, but are individual players actually being booed and/or abused? Genuine question as I've only seen us away at Dale and at home to Oxford. In both games there were no shortage of moments of exasperation, and although I choose not to join in with it the side were collectively booed off on both occasions. However, I can't say that I've noticed players coming in for individual stick.
Regarding Clough, he showed enough early on to prove that he is the real deal, he really does need to calm down though and show the guile he's shown before. His snatched effort when one on one yesterday just said to me that there's a player lacking confidence, not one lacking ability.

Absolutely. I would guess that the same also applies to a couple of others.

[LeverEnd]

Travelling fans - very vocal, good support but a minority looked more interested in causing trouble for the Swindon staff than actually supporting the team. For all their bwfc tattoos, more people (including the skinhead cretin) seemed more interested in spending time arguing with stewards, down in the concourse drinking, and for some reason chanting anti-IRA songs than getting behind the team. Some of them actually ended up being segregated by security, and sat in an all but empty part of the stand. And to that absolute cockwomble who stole spearings shirt thrown into the crowd from a little kid, before running off laughing - you're an awful human being.

Anyway few thoughts for you who stuck through the wall of text. On mobile so apologies for typos.

I've commented on this a few times to mates at away games. Absolute fecking scum. I've noticed it at Walsall and Blackpool this season as well. Can't remember it being so bad last season. I'm going to have to position myself as far away as possible in future because they really wind me up.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

There was a flag saying "Bolton / Rangers British Alliance" so I guess its owners were responsible for the (anti-)IRA chants. And of course we've got plenty of quarterwits who will sing any song with insistent regularity.

Speaking of which, I understand why Henry's performance provoked protests but some of the mouth-breathers near me had been screaming at him from the off. And as I said in my HT report, as soon as Trotter started warming up he was told to "f*ck off you sh*t c*nt". I understand the arguments about paying customers having the right to criticise under-par performances but there's a difference between that and automated gormless abuse.

[BWFC_Insane]

There was a flag saying "Bolton / Rangers British Alliance" so I guess its owners were responsible for the (anti-)IRA chants. And of course we've got plenty of quarterwits who will sing any song with insistent regularity.

Speaking of which, I understand why Henry's performance provoked protests but some of the mouth-breathers near me had been screaming at him from the off. And as I said in my HT report, as soon as Trotter started warming up he was told to "f*ck off you sh*t c*nt". I understand the arguments about paying customers having the right to criticise under-par performances but there's a difference between that and automated gormless abuse.

Also we are a league one side. Not in the premiership anymore. League one sides will have a lot of 'shit c*nts' playing for them. Better to encourage than slam them. At least during matches.

[Burnden Paddock]

Travelling fans - very vocal, good support but a minority looked more interested in causing trouble for the Swindon staff than actually supporting the team. For all their bwfc tattoos, more people (including the skinhead cretin) seemed more interested in spending time arguing with stewards, down in the concourse drinking, and for some reason chanting anti-IRA songs than getting behind the team. Some of them actually ended up being segregated by security, and sat in an all but empty part of the stand. And to that absolute cockwomble who stole spearings shirt thrown into the crowd from a little kid, before running off laughing - you're an awful human being.

Anyway few thoughts for you who stuck through the wall of text. On mobile so apologies for typos.

I've commented on this a few times to mates at away games. Absolute fecking scum. I've noticed it at Walsall and Blackpool this season as well. Can't remember it being so bad last season. I'm going to have to position myself as far away as possible in future because they really wind me up.

Absolutely this. There seems to be a lot of yoof attaching themselves to the club of late. Witnessed it at Blackpool, also at half time at Rochdale. What is the point in throwing beer around the concourse, setting off smoke bombs and ripping down advertising boards? Seeing grown men filming smoke in the air was an eye opener to say the least!

[LeverEnd]

The anti IRA thing is just a go-to chant for far-right yobs and harks back to the hooligan days of the 80s. I'd like to sit the thick cnuts down and give them a history quiz on the history of Irish republicanism. There are fcukwitts out there who actively want their kids to be a top boy in all this, I know this from bitter personal experience (not me and my Dad btw!).
As for player abuse, it's pathetic. I'd stop going if I felt like shouting stuff like that. There's a reason it's Henry and Trotter of course but if they started playing well they'd still get it.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Well worth bringing up, TAB, and I enjoyed your report.

If Henry and Trotter played well someone else would get it instead. Sadly.

[LeverEnd]

Well worth bringing up, TAB, and I enjoyed your report.

If Henry and Trotter played well someone else would get it instead. Sadly.

I suppose so, but some make up their minds and only see what they want to. I remember a comment about Danns last season at MK Dons after he tracked a runner, blocked a scoring chance then burst up the other end and nearly scored - 'Well I bet it's the only decent thing he does all game!' She then waited for his next mistake before unleashing a torrent of abuse.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Well worth bringing up, TAB, and I enjoyed your report.

If Henry and Trotter played well someone else would get it instead. Sadly.

I suppose so, but some make up their minds and only see what they want to. I remember a comment about Danns last season at MK Dons after he tracked a runner, blocked a scoring chance then burst up the other end and nearly scored - 'Well I bet it's the only decent thing he does all game!' She then waited for his next mistake before unleashing a torrent of abuse.

Oh, completely agreed. There's plenty would rather be 'right' than happy.

[TonyDomingos]

It's been going on for years. There's always been a far right element to our support, though I suspect it's a "cultural" rather than political thing. I've been having run-ins with them since the '70s. More recently, beer & coke seems to be fuelling their viewpoint. Just need to challenge them.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yeah, I remember a Rangers element to our support back in the late 80s, although I never saw the two-badged flag that was on the Stratton Bank end terrace yesterday.

[Tombwfc]

Clough - we own him, he's a young(ish) lad with a lot of talent. We are hoping he develops into a player who can either play for us at a better level or we sell him to a bigger team.

Henry - is ours for 3 months, has a good record at this level and is owned by wolves. To be frank if he doesn't have an immediate impact he is a waste of wages.

Thats the difference isn't it?

Thought Clough was more use than henry today, but both misses were dissapointing.

Personally I think the difference is, fans made such a fuss about Clough they don't want to admit he's done absolutely feck all for 12 months and looks pretty bang average.

Yet a new player coming in, trying to settle in without much first team football behind them is barracked after one bad touch.

I think there is a degree of hypocrisy with Clough, I like him. He clearly has a lot of talent. But he's simply not realising it, and is getting a lot of ball and wasting it, just like Henry.

Clough isn't as good as was first thought, it's not the first time a youngster at Bolton is way overhyped. I'm certainly not saying he's shite or worthless. But he's in league one and looks no more like scoring goals than Madine, Proctor or Henry. Time for a reality check with him and perhaps a realisation that the 2M offered for him by Bristol was in fact a very decent offer for an unproven player.

As it stands I think Clough fits into this system better but just like Madine, Henry and the rest if he continues misfiring we are going to struggle. His career could go one of two ways, either realise his potential and bang a load in and catch attention again or fade into lower league obscurity. I hope he manages the former and think he has a manager who will keep his feet planted. But as much as Henry was poor today, let's be honest and admit, Clough was equally as bad.

Um, you certainly did. Three pages ago. 'Total shite' in fact. I guess with Mark Davies injured (and us looking considerably worse as a result) someone has to be not fit for burning.

Why it irks you so much that fans aren't pillyoring a 21 year old lad who's been here since he was 8, is beyond me. He's barely had a consistent run of games, and yet his league record for us stands at 12 goals in 34 starts and 10 sub appearances. Considering what's been around him, he's been outstanding.

How well do you think he should've done in that period, to suggest we might have something here? Fans have got excited, but what the feck else has there been to be excited about?

Anyway, I thought there was a lot to like about us yesterday, despite the freak nature of the winner. Keep creating four of five one on ones every week and we won't hit them all straight at the 'keeper.

My point is, after his initial burst onto the scene he's done very little.

And rather than suggesting he's pilloried, I'm suggesting that fans refrain from booing and shouting abuse at players like Chris Taylor after just a handful of games.

If you want to take up the cause for better treatment for Chris Taylor, I'm on board. I agree nobody should get pelters for every mistake. How calling Clough 'total shite' because he missed a chance plays into that, I'm not sure.

Ultimately Chris Taylor is 30 in two months, and as he's spent his career in the lower leagues very few people will have seen him do anything good ever (me included). Conversely, I'd venture that since he got into the team nobody has scored more goals for us than Clough, including a number of memorable ones. Add into that what I said earlier about him being 21 and having been with us since he was a boy, I don't think it's hard to see why he has a longer leash.

I think part of your problem, judging from your earlier post, is that you seem to think Clough's career can only take two paths - shit or brilliant. That in three years he'll either be winning the Ballon d'or or working at Axfords. If he remains one of our better players (in whatever devision we're in) for the next 10 years, I'll be happy with that.

[Andy Waller]

And in fairness to Clough, their 'keeper was having one of those days.

I think only that type of goal would have beaten him!

I didn't go but watched it on Indian telly (Lord knows why it was on there), but I thought we looked a bit better with Thorpe in there instead of Trotter.

Henry needs to buck up a bit, but hopefully, once he's scored one, he'll do ok. At the very least, he's getting in good positions before ballooning it...

There's still way too much big hoof though and the stupid thing is, we don't look that bad when we actually play a bit of football.

[Bruce Rioja]

Also we are a league one side. Not in the premiership anymore. League one sides will have a lot of 'shit c*nts' playing for them. Better to encourage than slam them. At least during matches.

I have you and I down as being of a fairly similar age and as such have spent a chunk of our lives watching the Wanderers in the lower leagues. We now have a generation of supporters who've known nothing outside the top two divisions and Europe. Most of them won't be here next season, so we have to sit it out.

[BWFC_Insane]

Also we are a league one side. Not in the premiership anymore. League one sides will have a lot of 'shit c*nts' playing for them. Better to encourage than slam them. At least during matches.

I have you and I down as being of a fairly similar age and as such have spent a chunk of our lives watching the Wanderers in the lower leagues. We now have a generation of supporters who've known nothing outside the top two divisions and Europe. Most of them won't be here next season, so we have to sit it out.

Aye. I've thought similar. But it isn't just the young ones.

Everyone gets frustrated I get that. Oxford, the team as a whole were rightly booed off the park. Nobody can say they deserved anything else. And the odd "cat call" has from the stands for players has been a part of the game for as long as it has existed. I'm not trying to suggest nobody ever should boo or say anything critical. Feck everyone gets annoyed once in a while.

But the past few years, even back to when we were a premiership side I've noticed more and more, fans going to games, deliberately waiting till things go quiet enough for them to launch a verbal tirade against a player, so everyone in the crowd can hear, ideally the player too. And of course it is worse now that most grounds we go to are close enough for players to hear.

I remember going to Rochdale when we were a premiership side for a pre-season friendly. Some blokes were sat near the front and the tirade of abuse they directed at Elmander during a meaningless pre-season friendly was appalling. And at one point you could see Elmander turn to the stand look incredibly confused and then incredibly disappointed, then just shrug. He had his best season for us after that and no doubt those fans who called him every name under the sun, practically to his face, called Gartside every name under the sun for not forcing him to sign a new deal.

But this season I've noticed fans really going for it on occassion. Some nice person stood up near me during the Fleetwood game to berate Howard for punching a cross, seriously called him a "useless c*nt". I mean a keeper who for me has been excellent and because he punched a cross he was a "useless c*nt who should piss off back to Yorkshire".

I don't think it is just the kids who haven't seen us down here. I think I could live with that. It's men who go to games just to abuse their own team and manager. And some of them look less than enthused if we score. I'm not the only one noticing this either.

I suppose it goes with the territory of modern football fan but still it means we have less scope to laugh at those West Ham fans doing exactly the same.

[BWFC_Insane]

It's been going on for years. There's always been a far right element to our support, though I suspect it's a "cultural" rather than political thing. I've been having run-ins with them since the '70s. More recently, beer & coke seems to be fuelling their viewpoint. Just need to challenge them.

Yeah, I remember a Rangers element to our support back in the late 80s, although I never saw the two-badged flag that was on the Stratton Bank end terrace yesterday.

I don't go as often as some people on here due to distance I've generally lived from Bolton, but I really can't remember anything like it from the mid/late 90s onwards which is when I first started to properly attend matches. Even recently with the southern away games that I've been to in the past few seasons, I can't recall anything like it. My mate is a season ticket holder of my age and it's not something he's experienced either. I knew we would have some sort of...'ultra'...element to the fanbase somewhere - I just never experienced that sort of mentality being so vocal before.

As I said it wasn't that 'bad', but it was certainly the first time that I'd say it's been noticeable for me.

Our away crowds this season do seem to be attracting the idiots for their day out. Their behaviour at Blackpool was pretty embarrasing.

I'm just getting old clearly as frankly I'm not enjoying aways anymore, mainly because of our own fans. And perhaps, that is me, more than anything else.

[Lord Kangana]

Its interesting that a few Scottish colleagues over the years have made comment on the Rangers link. Its certainly a culture i've been aware of for a long while. Neither of these are referenced in any positive way, btw.

[LeverEnd]

Its interesting that a few Scottish colleagues over the years have made comment on the Rangers link. Its certainly a culture i've been aware of for a long while. Neither of these are referenced in any positive way, btw.

Is there any particular reason for it? I can't think of any reason for there to be ties between the clubs, so it must predate myself by quite a bit.

Rangers is the club of choice for the far-right, there's a significant link between Bolton hooligans and EDL type activity and worse. I don't know if other clubs have a similar element.

[Bruce Rioja]

Its interesting that a few Scottish colleagues over the years have made comment on the Rangers link. Its certainly a culture i've been aware of for a long while. Neither of these are referenced in any positive way, btw.

Is there any particular reason for it? I can't think of any reason for there to be ties between the clubs, so it must predate myself by quite a bit.

Around say 30 years ago you could buy half Bolton - half Celtic/Rangers scarves. I don't know where from because I wasn't interested. Football hooliganism was rife around that period and I've always despised that. I just always assumed that attempting to introduce bigotry was just an act of imbeciles who got involved in that sort of stuff. Just any excuse for a fight.