Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Couple of things.

Firstly, Ken has said clearly in the past (and reiterated in his latest dummy-chuck) how unfair he sees it that players should get their bonuses in the cashflow-shallow summer months, but he's hidebound by the "football creditors" rule. If he were that (1) bothered and (2) savvy he'd be writing it in the contracts that they get seasonal bonuses in August instead, but it strikes me he's grasping for populist sticks to beat opponents with.

Secondly, he's also made it clear recently that he's not looking for a takeover but investment. Been said by many others before but his ideal would be to be the new Gartside: the main man but not the money man. To be honest, that wouldn't be too bad an outcome – he can obviously do the business side, but personally he hasn't got the pockets to sit at this card table. Trouble is, there ain't many Eddies who are willing to swap money for no control. Why would they?

[Mar]

Would be a great time for Ken to unveil our away kit. Seeing as its a neutral talking point that everyone can discuss

[Beefheart]

He could just fecking pay them what he owes them. There is always that option. The spiv cnut. They've got form.

This.

Though, what if they've no money to actually pay them?

This should be the one year we are able to pay our dues. With the Madine transfer (£5m up front according to Warnock), and the subsequent promotion bonus (in excess of £1m according to the BEN), we should have made a slight profit if what Ken said at the November Q&A was correct (he forecasted the club was due to lose £5m-£6m, long before Madine became a £6m+ player).

We will also very shortly have money coming in from concerts and hosting the Rugby that we haven't had in previous years. And we have the new naming right s deal that might provide some additional revenue.

Ken did suggest in his aggressive riposte that the bonuses were set up to be paid on Monday. It seems hard to suggest the issue is we don't have the funds. And if it is, one would have the right to ask, how on earth are we ever going to pay a contractual bonus in the future, given most contracts are likely to continue to end at the end of June?

Profit/Loss and Cash Flow are two different (though not entirely unrelated) things.

[GhostoftheBok]

The thing about not liking the football creditors rule is just spin. Bolton as a club relies upon that rule constantly. Football contracts tie a player to a fixed term and offer no way to turn in notice unless the contract is breached. In standard contracts, that would entail a huge upfront payment, but football clubs still want to treat players like employees when it comes to paying their wages, even though their contracts make them company assets. In order to get anyone to agree to that kind of working arrangement, clubs have to guarantee that if anything goes wrong the playing staff will be guaranteed their wages. Likewise, almost all football transfers are done on the never-never and all clubs rely on the football creditors system when arranging things like loans and citing due transfer fees as already earned income or collateral - we did just this with Madine.

Ken uses the system all the time to his benefit. The real irony is that he's using the very same system when withholding money from Amos. Amos is still a business asset, precisely because we have contracts that assume the football creditors rule will hold.

That entire letter from Ken was PR bullshit and it wasn't even well done. He should have paid a professional to write it for him. Or if he did, a better professional.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

[bristol_Wanderer3]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

Is Ken delaying until season ticket money/concerts money comes in? Does he not want to fund it temporarily from his own money? Can the club not borrow from elsewhere?

There must be some season ticket revenue surely? Not everyone pays by DD. I know at least two people who haven't!!

On the face of it there seems very little in support of Ken here. He is reneging on contracts. And he is dragging the club's name through the mud and potentially impacting on signings and preventing the club attracting new and keeping existing supporters. Seems self-destructive.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

Is Ken delaying until season ticket money/concerts money comes in? Does he not want to fund it temporarily from his own money? Can the club not borrow from elsewhere?

There must be some season ticket revenue surely? Not everyone pays by DD. I know at least two people who haven't!!

On the face of it there seems very little in support of Ken here. He is reneging on contracts. And he is dragging the club's name through the mud and potentially impacting on signings and preventing the club attracting new and keeping existing supporters. Seems self-destructive.

The club won't say whether he's in the country, which means he either is and he's hiding, or he isn't and is refusing to return. Hopefully he's tapping up a rich forriner, but equally he could be sat sipping sangria while his workforce revolts.

It's really not a good look when you can't even agree to sit down and negotiate with the PFA and EFL in the room; let's not forget, the strike is off, they're willing to play, they just want what they're owed, and still he (it says here) won't sit down and discuss it. I'm sure there'll be a toot on the bugle later on telling us it's Deano's fault and these players get paid too much and policemen are getting younger...

[BWFC_Insane]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

Is Ken delaying until season ticket money/concerts money comes in? Does he not want to fund it temporarily from his own money? Can the club not borrow from elsewhere?

There must be some season ticket revenue surely? Not everyone pays by DD. I know at least two people who haven't!!

On the face of it there seems very little in support of Ken here. He is reneging on contracts. And he is dragging the club's name through the mud and potentially impacting on signings and preventing the club attracting new and keeping existing supporters. Seems self-destructive.

The club won't say whether he's in the country, which means he either is and he's hiding, or he isn't and is refusing to return. Hopefully he's tapping up a rich forriner, but equally he could be sat sipping sangria while his workforce revolts.

It's really not a good look when you can't even agree to sit down and negotiate with the PFA and EFL in the room; let's not forget, the strike is off, they're willing to play, they just want what they're owed, and still he (it says here) won't sit down and discuss it. I'm sure there'll be a toot on the bugle later on telling us it's Deano's fault and these players get paid too much and policemen are getting younger...

He's on holiday......

It's tricky because his view is the players took a decision to strike that was not legal. And used it as a way to threaten him. Having been told they would get their bonus payments, within a few days.

Their view is they want what they are owed.

Frankly both sides are probably going to need to sit down and both need to concede some ground. However, given the impasse that is going to be difficult.

I hear that this isn't hugely about the money, but stems back to massive dissatisfaction in the squad with KA following his comments after the Birmingham game. There has been a lack of trust in him from the players since that point.

Personally, for the good of the club both sides need to get round a table, apologise for their wrongdoings and get on with it.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

He's on holiday......

It's tricky because his view is the players took a decision to strike that was not legal. And used it as a way to threaten him. Having been told they would get their bonus payments, within a few days.

Their view is they want what they are owed.

Frankly both sides are probably going to need to sit down and both need to concede some ground. However, given the impasse that is going to be difficult.

I hear that this isn't hugely about the money, but stems back to massive dissatisfaction in the squad with KA following his comments after the Birmingham game. There has been a lack of trust in him from the players since that point.

Personally, for the good of the club both sides need to get round a table, apologise for their wrongdoings and get on with it.

That is interesting. So when we were discussing the reasons for our poor form at the end of last season, it sounds like we were right when we speculated events behind the scenes affected morale?

Whatever Ken feels about being threatened, he is proving the players right. They still haven't got the payments they are owed contractually.

[BWFC_Insane]

He's on holiday......

It's tricky because his view is the players took a decision to strike that was not legal. And used it as a way to threaten him. Having been told they would get their bonus payments, within a few days.

Their view is they want what they are owed.

Frankly both sides are probably going to need to sit down and both need to concede some ground. However, given the impasse that is going to be difficult.

I hear that this isn't hugely about the money, but stems back to massive dissatisfaction in the squad with KA following his comments after the Birmingham game. There has been a lack of trust in him from the players since that point.

Personally, for the good of the club both sides need to get round a table, apologise for their wrongdoings and get on with it.

That is interesting. So when we were discussing the reasons for our poor form at the end of last season, it sounds like we were right when we speculated events behind the scenes affected morale?

Whatever Ken feels about being threatened, he is proving the players right. They still haven't got the payments they are owed contractually.

Ken wants to make a point that he won't let player power rule. It is a bit of a mess.

[david lee's bald patch]

I'm with him on not having Player Power, but surely the players are correct here and actually haven't done much wrong?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm with him on not having Player Power, but surely the players are correct here and actually haven't done much wrong?

Depends who eyes you view it through. If Ken says players were told the bonus would be late by a few days and they then still went on strike and issued that statement it could be seen as over the top action in the circumstances.

We don't know what has happened in the build up. And like I say if it is more about a breakdown in relationship then they probably haven't done that any favours.

[david lee's bald patch]

I was under the impression they should have been paid in June, weren't and he promised they would be paid on the Friday, they weren't and the players have done what they have done.

Also, it's not the first time they've been paid late...

[BWFC_Insane]

I was under the impression they should have been paid in June, weren't and he promised they would be paid on the Friday, they weren't and the players have done what they have done.

Also, it's not the first time they've been paid late...

They were paid wages (apart from Amos and Chris Taylor) just not the survival bonus. Ken claims that he'd told them the bonus would be late. The players say he didn't.

Its clear that KA has been playing games with payments and the players are right to be annoyed. Probably though, downing tools in the way they did was not the way forward at that point.

Ken has made things worse with his public statement and it is now a mess.

However, in the normal world if your bonus is late a few times you'd not get very far downing tools and putting out statements. Equally your employer would be in trouble too.

[Riviman]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... m-14890982
Is this how he's raising money to pay the players? £20 to park at the upcoming concerts!!

[irie Cee Bee]

The players should not have strike. Don't know whose idea it was to do so. Would not help them nor the club nor the supporters nor potential investors, nor transfer targets nor the upcoming season. Put all our problems in the public realm. if that's what they wanted then they achieved that. They should have called in the PFA before taking that action. I reckon that it puts back the power into the hands of KA.

KA can now say that they (the players) owe the club by their actions and therefore will not be in a hurry to pay any bonus. There must now be bills to settle and compensation due to St Mirren and to supporters who bought tickets and prepaid to get in. Who pays that compensation? KA will say the players should pay from their bonuses due. The players will say what ? That it is not their problem? Then whose is it?

[BWFC_Insane]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... m-14890982
Is this how he's raising money to pay the players? £20 to park at the upcoming concerts!!

If so, then well done Ken. Club needs money. Need to milk the concert goers as much as possible to maximise revenue.

[boltonboris]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... m-14890982
Is this how he's raising money to pay the players? £20 to park at the upcoming concerts!!

If so, then well done Ken. Club needs money. Need to milk the concert goers as much as possible to maximise revenue.

Until future acts say "feck playing my gig there, if my fans are going to get exploited"

[TANGODANCER]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... m-14890982
Is this how he's raising money to pay the players? £20 to park at the upcoming concerts!!

If so, then well done Ken. Club needs money. Need to milk the concert goers as much as possible to maximise revenue.

Why not just charge them something fair instead and keep everybody happy? The concert money is already helping the club, so why rip them off and risk losing potential future customers and pxss them off with the club at the same time. Some folk might be both concert-go'ers and Whites supporters.

[malcd1]

No one knows how much we are getting for hosting these concerts. Considering it is the first for years, I suspect the club won't be charging a great deal. They now want to maximise profit from the other money streams. Only my guess but sort of makes sense to me.