Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[Prufrock]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

Is Ken delaying until season ticket money/concerts money comes in? Does he not want to fund it temporarily from his own money? Can the club not borrow from elsewhere?

There must be some season ticket revenue surely? Not everyone pays by DD. I know at least two people who haven't!!

On the face of it there seems very little in support of Ken here. He is reneging on contracts. And he is dragging the club's name through the mud and potentially impacting on signings and preventing the club attracting new and keeping existing supporters. Seems self-destructive.

The club won't say whether he's in the country, which means he either is and he's hiding, or he isn't and is refusing to return. Hopefully he's tapping up a rich forriner, but equally he could be sat sipping sangria while his workforce revolts.

It's really not a good look when you can't even agree to sit down and negotiate with the PFA and EFL in the room; let's not forget, the strike is off, they're willing to play, they just want what they're owed, and still he (it says here) won't sit down and discuss it. I'm sure there'll be a toot on the bugle later on telling us it's Deano's fault and these players get paid too much and policemen are getting younger...

He's on holiday......

It's tricky because his view is the players took a decision to strike that was not legal. And used it as a way to threaten him. Having been told they would get their bonus payments, within a few days.

Their view is they want what they are owed.

Frankly both sides are probably going to need to sit down and both need to concede some ground. However, given the impasse that is going to be difficult.

I hear that this isn't hugely about the money, but stems back to massive dissatisfaction in the squad with KA following his comments after the Birmingham game. There has been a lack of trust in him from the players since that point.

Personally, for the good of the club both sides need to get round a table, apologise for their wrongdoings and get on with it.

It's not tricky. The useless feck needs to pay them what he owes them. Cannot stress enough this is not the first time. They haven't paid them on-time at least twice before. There's quite rightly no goodwill there. He's a spiv cnut and he can feck off.

[mullayo]

The next pre-season fixture has been cancelled too. Coincidence? No, ... well, yes but not to Joe Public

https://www.burndenaces.co.uk/2018/07/1 ... d-off.html

[Worthy4England]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

Is Ken delaying until season ticket money/concerts money comes in? Does he not want to fund it temporarily from his own money? Can the club not borrow from elsewhere?

There must be some season ticket revenue surely? Not everyone pays by DD. I know at least two people who haven't!!

On the face of it there seems very little in support of Ken here. He is reneging on contracts. And he is dragging the club's name through the mud and potentially impacting on signings and preventing the club attracting new and keeping existing supporters. Seems self-destructive.

The club won't say whether he's in the country, which means he either is and he's hiding, or he isn't and is refusing to return. Hopefully he's tapping up a rich forriner, but equally he could be sat sipping sangria while his workforce revolts.

It's really not a good look when you can't even agree to sit down and negotiate with the PFA and EFL in the room; let's not forget, the strike is off, they're willing to play, they just want what they're owed, and still he (it says here) won't sit down and discuss it. I'm sure there'll be a toot on the bugle later on telling us it's Deano's fault and these players get paid too much and policemen are getting younger...

He's on holiday......

It's tricky because his view is the players took a decision to strike that was not legal. And used it as a way to threaten him. Having been told they would get their bonus payments, within a few days.

Their view is they want what they are owed.

Frankly both sides are probably going to need to sit down and both need to concede some ground. However, given the impasse that is going to be difficult.

I hear that this isn't hugely about the money, but stems back to massive dissatisfaction in the squad with KA following his comments after the Birmingham game. There has been a lack of trust in him from the players since that point.

Personally, for the good of the club both sides need to get round a table, apologise for their wrongdoings and get on with it.

It's not tricky. The useless feck needs to pay them what he owes them. Cannot stress enough this is not the first time. They haven't paid them on-time at least twice before. There's quite rightly no goodwill there. He's a spiv cnut and he can feck off.

I'll be continuing my retirement after this post, but people are losing sight of how much he's actually taking out of the club. Whilst this year's accounts point to the highest paid director getting "under 200k" so they don't have to state it - maybe estimate it at £199,999.99 - In the "other payment notes" - K.Anderson received £525k in consultancy fees. Another Anderson received £125k working for Athos Consultancy. And BWFC paid Sports Shield £250k for a dispute that was ostensibly between Anderson and Holdsworth. Whilst there might not be a direct connection between a payment by Burnden Leisure to Sports Shield, the outcome of that dispute was Anderson owns all the shares....All that against a turnover of £8.3m

[BWFC_Insane]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

Is Ken delaying until season ticket money/concerts money comes in? Does he not want to fund it temporarily from his own money? Can the club not borrow from elsewhere?

There must be some season ticket revenue surely? Not everyone pays by DD. I know at least two people who haven't!!

On the face of it there seems very little in support of Ken here. He is reneging on contracts. And he is dragging the club's name through the mud and potentially impacting on signings and preventing the club attracting new and keeping existing supporters. Seems self-destructive.

The club won't say whether he's in the country, which means he either is and he's hiding, or he isn't and is refusing to return. Hopefully he's tapping up a rich forriner, but equally he could be sat sipping sangria while his workforce revolts.

It's really not a good look when you can't even agree to sit down and negotiate with the PFA and EFL in the room; let's not forget, the strike is off, they're willing to play, they just want what they're owed, and still he (it says here) won't sit down and discuss it. I'm sure there'll be a toot on the bugle later on telling us it's Deano's fault and these players get paid too much and policemen are getting younger...

He's on holiday......

It's tricky because his view is the players took a decision to strike that was not legal. And used it as a way to threaten him. Having been told they would get their bonus payments, within a few days.

Their view is they want what they are owed.

Frankly both sides are probably going to need to sit down and both need to concede some ground. However, given the impasse that is going to be difficult.

I hear that this isn't hugely about the money, but stems back to massive dissatisfaction in the squad with KA following his comments after the Birmingham game. There has been a lack of trust in him from the players since that point.

Personally, for the good of the club both sides need to get round a table, apologise for their wrongdoings and get on with it.

It's not tricky. The useless feck needs to pay them what he owes them. Cannot stress enough this is not the first time. They haven't paid them on-time at least twice before. There's quite rightly no goodwill there. He's a spiv cnut and he can feck off.

We made a 3M loss last year. We're in the month with the biggest cashflow issue. The business may simply not have the money to fulfill all commitments immediately.

Lets imagine an alternate scenario. You work in a factory making a product. The business is paying staff wages, but bonuses for the 3rd year running are missing. Your boss explains that sadly the business has cashflow issues but the bonuses will be paid next month.
The staff without a union vote, or appropriate action all decide to down tools and walk out. The business loses more money and has a bigger cashflow issue.

I'm not saying the players aren't in the right in terms of their grievance. What I'm saying is, real world, rather than theoretical internet land, isn't as simple as "pay them now". And we don't know the backstory. We don't know if it was communicated or not and if it was how was it done.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

We made a 3M loss last year.

I strongly believe this is not true. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

[BWFC_Insane]

We made a 3M loss last year.

I strongly believe this is not true. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

Which bit? The 3M projected loss was noted I believe by KA. The cashflow thing in June is widely known as an issue for football clubs. I'm speculating there isn't enough in the June pot to fulfill commitments - I did say MAY!!!

[bristol_Wanderer3]

We made a 3M loss last year.

I strongly believe this is not true. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

Which bit? The 3M projected loss was noted I believe by KA. The cashflow thing in June is widely known as an issue for football clubs. I'm speculating there isn't enough in the June pot to fulfill commitments - I did say MAY!!!

I am talking only about the £3m loss bit. Sure June is the trickiest month for cash flow.

The £3m loss is flat out wrong. Ken stated in November that the club was on track to lose £5-£6m for the season. We sold Madine for what turned out to be £6.25m-£6.5m. We loaned in Clough and Flanagan probably extra to what we were already spending on loanees when Ken made his statement. Five month loans for those two, lets say £250k each (£11k pw, can't see us spending more that), means £500k total extra spending. Meaning we gained £5.75m - £6m. That puts in break even territory, some chance of a slight profit, smaller chance of a slight loss. That tracks with some media reports that have suggested we broke even last season.

[BWFC_Insane]

We made a 3M loss last year.

I strongly believe this is not true. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

Which bit? The 3M projected loss was noted I believe by KA. The cashflow thing in June is widely known as an issue for football clubs. I'm speculating there isn't enough in the June pot to fulfill commitments - I did say MAY!!!

I am talking only about the £3m loss bit. Sure June is the trickiest month for cash flow.

The £3m loss is flat out wrong. Ken stated in November that the club was on track to lose £5-£6m for the season. We sold Madine for what turned out to be £6.25m-£6.5m. We loaned in Clough and Flanagan probably extra to what we were already spending on loanees when Ken made his statement. Five month loans for those two, lets say £250k each (£11k pw, can't see us spending more that), means £500k total extra spending. Meaning we gained £5.75m - £6m. That puts in break even territory, some chance of a slight profit, smaller chance of a slight loss. That tracks with some media reports that have suggested we broke even last season.

Also loaned in Walker....picked up extra Amos wages etc....

Doesn't really matter either way its likely we broke even or made a small loss. Or that the loss is a little more than estimated.

Still doesn't change the fact that there is a strong likelihood that there wasn't the money in club accounts in June to cover all outgoings.

[Tombwfc]

By Ken's account, he's had the money for at least a week, but yet no-one has been paid.

So he's either lying, and the players were right not to believe him in the first instance. Or he does have it, but is now refusing to pay. Both of those make him look like a knob.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

We made a 3M loss last year.

I strongly believe this is not true. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

Which bit? The 3M projected loss was noted I believe by KA. The cashflow thing in June is widely known as an issue for football clubs. I'm speculating there isn't enough in the June pot to fulfill commitments - I did say MAY!!!

I am talking only about the £3m loss bit. Sure June is the trickiest month for cash flow.

The £3m loss is flat out wrong. Ken stated in November that the club was on track to lose £5-£6m for the season. We sold Madine for what turned out to be £6.25m-£6.5m. We loaned in Clough and Flanagan probably extra to what we were already spending on loanees when Ken made his statement. Five month loans for those two, lets say £250k each (£11k pw, can't see us spending more that), means £500k total extra spending. Meaning we gained £5.75m - £6m. That puts in break even territory, some chance of a slight profit, smaller chance of a slight loss. That tracks with some media reports that have suggested we broke even last season.

Also loaned in Walker....picked up extra Amos wages etc....

Doesn't really matter either way its likely we broke even or made a small loss. Or that the loss is a little more than estimated.

Still doesn't change the fact that there is a strong likelihood that there wasn't the money in club accounts in June to cover all outgoings.

Well when Ken made his statement in November we had Cullen, Burke, Robinson and Armstrong on loan. In January Armstrong and Cullen returned to their home clubs (as did Burke for 4 weeks), and Walker and Charsley came in. So I am suggesting the costs for those guys stayed the same. I would actually suggest that Charsley and Walker might well have cost less than Cullen and Armstrong, and we would have saved a little from Burke's spell away. Anyway lets assume the costs for those were on track with what we were already spending, that means Clough and Flanagan were extra.

I would suggest it does very much matter whether we made a £3m loss or broke even. If we made a £3m loss then we would be in very serious financial trouble because I don't think Ken can cover even that kind of loss from his own pocket. I don't think we could easily borrow £3m from a financial institution. ED could perhaps bail us out, but I am sure he feels those days are gone. I would suggest there would be much more outward signs of distress had we made a £3m loss. And actually this is the tightrope we walk year on year under the current set up. We were lucky that Madine had a real purple patch prior to the January TW. I dread to think what our financial situation would have been like had we not sold him. We sold Clough to cover losses the previous January. And it is something to watch out for this January also. Don't be surprised to see Oztumer or Ameobi being sold in January unless there is this magical "investment", or we don't add much to the wage bill as is right now, and Ken manages to renegotiate the Blumarble loan so we don't have to pay £4m in September. But why would Blumarble renegotiate? Anyway...

I agree it is possible that for a few weeks we might not have had the ready cash to pay the June bonuses. But Ken would be in a position to recoup what would be no more than £400k from lots of season ticket / concert income in July. He should be meeting his contractual obligations particularly after what was as successful a financial year as we could have hoped to expect. It is also worth noting that when Ken assumed his then co-chairman position it was on the basis that Deano put in the bulk of the money (the Blumarble loan), and Ken also stumped up to cover losses. Wasn't £2.5m mentioned? There is no evidence as far as I can see that Ken has ever put that money in? So covering £400k to solve a very temporary cashflow problem should be something he does without batting an eyelid.

[BWFC_Insane]

Talk of the devil.......

Finally, I know I said I wouldn’t be making a comment on this matter, but in a bid to quell the speculation in the media and social media, I would like let you all know that I have a meeting with the PFA scheduled for next week.

I will of course update you once I have had the meeting.

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2018/july/a ... chairman3/

[Prufrock]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

Is Ken delaying until season ticket money/concerts money comes in? Does he not want to fund it temporarily from his own money? Can the club not borrow from elsewhere?

There must be some season ticket revenue surely? Not everyone pays by DD. I know at least two people who haven't!!

On the face of it there seems very little in support of Ken here. He is reneging on contracts. And he is dragging the club's name through the mud and potentially impacting on signings and preventing the club attracting new and keeping existing supporters. Seems self-destructive.

The club won't say whether he's in the country, which means he either is and he's hiding, or he isn't and is refusing to return. Hopefully he's tapping up a rich forriner, but equally he could be sat sipping sangria while his workforce revolts.

It's really not a good look when you can't even agree to sit down and negotiate with the PFA and EFL in the room; let's not forget, the strike is off, they're willing to play, they just want what they're owed, and still he (it says here) won't sit down and discuss it. I'm sure there'll be a toot on the bugle later on telling us it's Deano's fault and these players get paid too much and policemen are getting younger...

He's on holiday......

It's tricky because his view is the players took a decision to strike that was not legal. And used it as a way to threaten him. Having been told they would get their bonus payments, within a few days.

Their view is they want what they are owed.

Frankly both sides are probably going to need to sit down and both need to concede some ground. However, given the impasse that is going to be difficult.

I hear that this isn't hugely about the money, but stems back to massive dissatisfaction in the squad with KA following his comments after the Birmingham game. There has been a lack of trust in him from the players since that point.

Personally, for the good of the club both sides need to get round a table, apologise for their wrongdoings and get on with it.

It's not tricky. The useless feck needs to pay them what he owes them. Cannot stress enough this is not the first time. They haven't paid them on-time at least twice before. There's quite rightly no goodwill there. He's a spiv cnut and he can feck off.

We made a 3M loss last year. We're in the month with the biggest cashflow issue. The business may simply not have the money to fulfill all commitments immediately.

Lets imagine an alternate scenario. You work in a factory making a product. The business is paying staff wages, but bonuses for the 3rd year running are missing. Your boss explains that sadly the business has cashflow issues but the bonuses will be paid next month.
The staff without a union vote, or appropriate action all decide to down tools and walk out. The business loses more money and has a bigger cashflow issue.

I'm not saying the players aren't in the right in terms of their grievance. What I'm saying is, real world, rather than theoretical internet land, isn't as simple as "pay them now". And we don't know the backstory. We don't know if it was communicated or not and if it was how was it done.

I don't know. In this scenario had my boss already not paid them several times before. And is part of the reason there's a cash flow problem because he's taking out nearly £1m a year?

[Prufrock]

This doesn't seem... too healthy.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... -anderson/

Is Ken delaying until season ticket money/concerts money comes in? Does he not want to fund it temporarily from his own money? Can the club not borrow from elsewhere?

There must be some season ticket revenue surely? Not everyone pays by DD. I know at least two people who haven't!!

On the face of it there seems very little in support of Ken here. He is reneging on contracts. And he is dragging the club's name through the mud and potentially impacting on signings and preventing the club attracting new and keeping existing supporters. Seems self-destructive.

The club won't say whether he's in the country, which means he either is and he's hiding, or he isn't and is refusing to return. Hopefully he's tapping up a rich forriner, but equally he could be sat sipping sangria while his workforce revolts.

It's really not a good look when you can't even agree to sit down and negotiate with the PFA and EFL in the room; let's not forget, the strike is off, they're willing to play, they just want what they're owed, and still he (it says here) won't sit down and discuss it. I'm sure there'll be a toot on the bugle later on telling us it's Deano's fault and these players get paid too much and policemen are getting younger...

He's on holiday......

It's tricky because his view is the players took a decision to strike that was not legal. And used it as a way to threaten him. Having been told they would get their bonus payments, within a few days.

Their view is they want what they are owed.

Frankly both sides are probably going to need to sit down and both need to concede some ground. However, given the impasse that is going to be difficult.

I hear that this isn't hugely about the money, but stems back to massive dissatisfaction in the squad with KA following his comments after the Birmingham game. There has been a lack of trust in him from the players since that point.

Personally, for the good of the club both sides need to get round a table, apologise for their wrongdoings and get on with it.

It's not tricky. The useless feck needs to pay them what he owes them. Cannot stress enough this is not the first time. They haven't paid them on-time at least twice before. There's quite rightly no goodwill there. He's a spiv cnut and he can feck off.

I'll be continuing my retirement after this post, but people are losing sight of how much he's actually taking out of the club. Whilst this year's accounts point to the highest paid director getting "under 200k" so they don't have to state it - maybe estimate it at £199,999.99 - In the "other payment notes" - K.Anderson received £525k in consultancy fees. Another Anderson received £125k working for Athos Consultancy. And BWFC paid Sports Shield £250k for a dispute that was ostensibly between Anderson and Holdsworth. Whilst there might not be a direct connection between a payment by Burnden Leisure to Sports Shield, the outcome of that dispute was Anderson owns all the shares....All that against a turnover of £8.3m

We've had quite enough of experts, thank you!

[GhostoftheBok]

The only people who will agree to invest on the current terms are the kinds of people who have been investing in football in other countries for years. That being those who don't mind putting £1 in and getting 40p out at the end because the 40p is then clean. Football is a multi-billion pound business with almost no financial oversight and money launderers have had a grand time for decades now.

If we are serious about getting investment it'll have to come with stakes or other repayment guarantees. If we are going to ask people to just hand us money and then have zero input then we'll attract some seriously dodgy people. More so than we currently have.

The ideal option would be a buy-out, but Ken seems to think he can get ten or fifteen million for the club and so I don't see that happening any time soon. Until then, I'm expecting fairly regular "WTF?" moments around money matters at the club.

There's an inevitable tension. Fans see their club as a community asset, business people see a way to make a lot of money and the law is somewhere between the two and stuck in the last century.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Ken's latest Pravda bulletin mentions the Prescott Business Parks loan has been extended for another year.

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2018/july/a ... chairman2/

"I’m pleased to confirm that one such loan, provided by Prescott Business Parks Ltd, which was secured against the Hotel, has been extended by a further 12 months. This will give us more flexibility in the financing of the club."

[boltonboris]

Restructuring loans to free up cash for bonuses. "Where's the Madine Money", indeed

[Mar]

Ken's latest Pravda bulletin mentions the Prescott Business Parks loan has been extended for another year.

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2018/july/a ... chairman2/

"I’m pleased to confirm that one such loan, provided by Prescott Business Parks Ltd, which was secured against the Hotel, has been extended by a further 12 months. This will give us more flexibility in the financing of the club."

Pleased to confirm we've extended a loan?

Surely extending that isn't that much of a good thing, sure it gives us flexibility but I wouldn't have thought it would be all too 'pleasing'.

[BWFC_Insane]

Restructuring loans to free up cash for bonuses. "Where's the Madine Money", indeed

It doesn't free up cash. It means we survive another 12 months. Though the BM loan will be a problem too - and I'd wager BM far less likely to want any extension or delay.

[boltonboris]

Restructuring loans to free up cash for bonuses. "Where's the Madine Money", indeed

It doesn't free up cash. It means we survive another 12 months. Though the BM loan will be a problem too - and I'd wager BM far less likely to want any extension or delay.

The way it was worded, directly in line with the wage and bonus issue made it sound like whatever we didn't pay for that repayment freed up the cash for paying staff

[palindromeofbolton]

*DRAMATIC CHORD*