Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

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Worthy4England
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:07 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:52 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 am
malcd1 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:48 am
It could be next week before the deal is concluded.
Marc Iles wrote: Talks continued yesterday in the hope of concluding a swift sale of Anderson's shares – but sources warned last night that the deal could stretch into next week.
Every few days brings the sale of a Championship club, closer to being the sale of a League 1 club...wonder if this has anything to do with the delays...coz surely you wouldn't pay the same amount for a League 1 club...
Bringing Michael James on board might support the theory that the buyers are struggling to raise necessary cash to buy it..converting his debt to equity potentially saves a wedge of cash required? Possible?
Indeed possible but there's a difference between having money and wanting to part with it (which is why "showing you have the cash" is a fairly imprecise measure of nothing much - I guess it "rules out" some people who definitely don't have the cash). You'd sort of assume that they had to show they had access to the necessary, to get to the Heads of Agreement stage...although how validated that was by Anderson is anyone's guess.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:12 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:52 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 am
malcd1 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:48 am
It could be next week before the deal is concluded.
Marc Iles wrote: Talks continued yesterday in the hope of concluding a swift sale of Anderson's shares – but sources warned last night that the deal could stretch into next week.
Every few days brings the sale of a Championship club, closer to being the sale of a League 1 club...wonder if this has anything to do with the delays...coz surely you wouldn't pay the same amount for a League 1 club...
Bringing Michael James on board might support the theory that the buyers are struggling to raise necessary cash to buy it..converting his debt to equity potentially saves a wedge of cash required? Possible?
Indeed possible but there's a difference between having money and wanting to part with it (which is why "showing you have the cash" is a fairly imprecise measure of nothing much - I guess it "rules out" some people who definitely don't have the cash). You'd sort of assume that they had to show they had access to the necessary, to get to the Heads of Agreement stage...although how validated that was by Anderson is anyone's guess.
Indeed. But if Due Diligence revealed some extra debts to cover (or I guess revealed terms of some were not as favourable as hoped) that could have meant cash became more of an issue. I agree that nobody is keen on parting with more than is required. On balance though - does it have a similar feel to the last takeover?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:17 pm

I keep on remembering a comedy show from years ago.
The Brittas Empire. It has resonance.
That's not a leopard!
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:12 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:52 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 am
malcd1 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:48 am
It could be next week before the deal is concluded.
Marc Iles wrote: Talks continued yesterday in the hope of concluding a swift sale of Anderson's shares – but sources warned last night that the deal could stretch into next week.
Every few days brings the sale of a Championship club, closer to being the sale of a League 1 club...wonder if this has anything to do with the delays...coz surely you wouldn't pay the same amount for a League 1 club...
Bringing Michael James on board might support the theory that the buyers are struggling to raise necessary cash to buy it..converting his debt to equity potentially saves a wedge of cash required? Possible?
Indeed possible but there's a difference between having money and wanting to part with it (which is why "showing you have the cash" is a fairly imprecise measure of nothing much - I guess it "rules out" some people who definitely don't have the cash). You'd sort of assume that they had to show they had access to the necessary, to get to the Heads of Agreement stage...although how validated that was by Anderson is anyone's guess.
Indeed. But if Due Diligence revealed some extra debts to cover (or I guess revealed terms of some were not as favourable as hoped) that could have meant cash became more of an issue. I agree that nobody is keen on parting with more than is required. On balance though - does it have a similar feel to the last takeover?
Maybe a little different. At the moment, we have owner/backers * 1. The bidding consortium (if we assumed for the minute there's only the one) would be owners/backers * 4 - with one of them known to be a Bolton fan and known to have some money (albeit might not want to splurge it on football team).

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:22 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:20 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:12 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:52 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 am
malcd1 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:48 am
It could be next week before the deal is concluded.
Marc Iles wrote: Talks continued yesterday in the hope of concluding a swift sale of Anderson's shares – but sources warned last night that the deal could stretch into next week.
Every few days brings the sale of a Championship club, closer to being the sale of a League 1 club...wonder if this has anything to do with the delays...coz surely you wouldn't pay the same amount for a League 1 club...
Bringing Michael James on board might support the theory that the buyers are struggling to raise necessary cash to buy it..converting his debt to equity potentially saves a wedge of cash required? Possible?
Indeed possible but there's a difference between having money and wanting to part with it (which is why "showing you have the cash" is a fairly imprecise measure of nothing much - I guess it "rules out" some people who definitely don't have the cash). You'd sort of assume that they had to show they had access to the necessary, to get to the Heads of Agreement stage...although how validated that was by Anderson is anyone's guess.
Indeed. But if Due Diligence revealed some extra debts to cover (or I guess revealed terms of some were not as favourable as hoped) that could have meant cash became more of an issue. I agree that nobody is keen on parting with more than is required. On balance though - does it have a similar feel to the last takeover?
Maybe a little different. At the moment, we have owner/backers * 1. The bidding consortium (if we assumed for the minute there's only the one) would be owners/backers * 4 - with one of them known to be a Bolton fan and known to have some money (albeit might not want to splurge it on football team).
Interesting thoughts. I hadn't thought about the extra backers but it is important. If only in moving us away from our current Trump like dictatorship (IF he ever agrees to sell of course).

Is James known to have "money" in football terms? I thought his wealth was considered modest in those sorts of terms? Like 10M ish? or have I mis-read that?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:58 pm

We know he's been part of a fairly significant couple of bailouts. In return for assets of course. The sort of size no other bugger has managed since ED though. I'm not suggesting he's going to plough cash in, but might be better than where we're currently at.

Last takeover we were fairly certain Deano didn't have a pot to piss in and Anderson was all for Team Anderson.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:07 pm

I see the Pullitzer prize is still up for grabs.
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:15 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:58 pm
We know he's been part of a fairly significant couple of bailouts. In return for assets of course. The sort of size no other bugger has managed since ED though. I'm not suggesting he's going to plough cash in, but might be better than where we're currently at.

Last takeover we were fairly certain Deano didn't have a pot to piss in and Anderson was all for Team Anderson.
Yep. Probably getting more concerned that there has been no completion yet and we're up against the wall next Wednesday!

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:16 pm

I see the Pullitzer prize is still up for grabs...
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:40 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:15 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:58 pm
We know he's been part of a fairly significant couple of bailouts. In return for assets of course. The sort of size no other bugger has managed since ED though. I'm not suggesting he's going to plough cash in, but might be better than where we're currently at.

Last takeover we were fairly certain Deano didn't have a pot to piss in and Anderson was all for Team Anderson.
Yep. Probably getting more concerned that there has been no completion yet and we're up against the wall next Wednesday!
On the plus side, we're the form team against HMRC winders... That bill doesn't feel like one Anderson will stump up.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by twilight » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:02 pm

I'm trying to keep up to speed on this. This HMRC Debt. Do the buyers or Anderson need to pay this before the transfer of shares takes place? I'm totally confused. Or can the purchasers buy and then roll up in court and settle? Anybody know?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:12 pm

twilight wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:02 pm
I'm trying to keep up to speed on this. This HMRC Debt. Do the buyers or Anderson need to pay this before the transfer of shares takes place? I'm totally confused. Or can the purchasers buy and then roll up in court and settle? Anybody know?
Anderson doesn't owe the tax man (Well not related to this anyhow), Burnden Leisure do. As long as it's paid, HMRC don't really care who paid it. Share Transfer can happen aside from this.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by twilight » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:23 pm

Ah right, cheers Worthy :)

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:34 pm

twilight wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:23 pm
Ah right, cheers Worthy :)
The bit we don't know given Anderson had to pay the salaries, is whether the money to pay the bill is actually there in the Club (I think most people believe not) ... If not then either Anderson would have to find it from somewhere or the buyer pays it or we head into admin/liquidation.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:41 pm

Mike Glendinning, stepping in for Iles tweets:
As m'colleague predicted, no news emanating from Wanderers regarding the takeover today and any completion unlikely until some time next week. At best. It's still likely to dominate tomorrow's press conference with PP but keep the fizzy on ice for now

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:33 pm

It gets more like Brexit every day...
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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:48 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:34 pm
twilight wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:23 pm
Ah right, cheers Worthy :)
The bit we don't know given Anderson had to pay the salaries, is whether the money to pay the bill is actually there in the Club (I think most people believe not) ... If not then either Anderson would have to find it from somewhere or the buyer pays it or we head into admin/liquidation.
I fear that unless the takeover completes before then it’s admin or liquidation.....because I doubt Ken will pay it. Mind I guess having paid the wages he must be feeling surer about said deal.....would love to genuinely know the reason now for the hold up.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by TKIZ! » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:09 pm

I think members of the consortium have the money to run the club more sufficiently than the Curious Orange and his weird son have. I just think they are being cautious and who can blame them?
Pfffft.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:29 am

TKIZ! wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:09 pm
I think members of the consortium have the money to run the club more sufficiently than the Curious Orange and his weird son have. I just think they are being cautious and who can blame them?
Quite, it's one thing Ken proclaiming the Club has turned a profit, but then it looks like half the operating bills due haven't been paid (which makes it much easier to turn a profit :-) ). to name a few that got a mention:

HMRC,
Salaries (now paid),
GM Police,
Bolton Council Rates,
Hotel (at lease one supplier)
Heathcotes (constantly)

I'm sure when the consortium originally looked, they would have assumed that the running cost bills were broadly up to date. What's crawled out of the woodwork looks to be that they weren't and "forward payment plans" were put in place for some as late as last week, to cover cost that was due/overdue but had not been paid. If I were they, I'd be looking very carefully at each business/person we needed to pay and work out how far behind we were on those payments to see how fast they could put us in court in the future.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:44 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:29 am
TKIZ! wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:09 pm
I think members of the consortium have the money to run the club more sufficiently than the Curious Orange and his weird son have. I just think they are being cautious and who can blame them?
Quite, it's one thing Ken proclaiming the Club has turned a profit, but then it looks like half the operating bills due haven't been paid (which makes it much easier to turn a profit :-) ). to name a few that got a mention:

HMRC,
Salaries (now paid),
GM Police,
Bolton Council Rates,
Hotel (at lease one supplier)
Heathcotes (constantly)

I'm sure when the consortium originally looked, they would have assumed that the running cost bills were broadly up to date. What's crawled out of the woodwork looks to be that they weren't and "forward payment plans" were put in place for some as late as last week, to cover cost that was due/overdue but had not been paid. If I were they, I'd be looking very carefully at each business/person we needed to pay and work out how far behind we were on those payments to see how fast they could put us in court in the future.
Hint from Nixon is that Anderson will try and delay the court hearing with promise of "deal close" take it to 28th - when points deduction applies to next season and threaten admin or liquidation to extract more from the deal with Basran who would know that means buying a club in league 1 on -15 points....

As far-fetched as that sounds I personally wouldn't put it past Anderson at this stage. I suspect the buyer will be waiting till as close to 20th as possible to drive price down.

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