Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[irie Cee Bee]

Arrogant childish men (DH and KA). So which one of you started the fight first? Will you both please stop!

Eddie Davis looking like a hero. Kept us going with his own cash quietly for many years and from what I am seeing, DH and KA contribution to date - zero pounds and plenty "beating of the chest" publicity.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If we are losing £800k per month (or £11m per annum as stated in the accounts, so maybe £900k per month??) and neither KA nor DH have put any money into the club on a permanent basis, this means that the reason we are still trading is roughly the PBP Loan, plus Holding and Clough. But it seems we are running out of things to sell....

And even a massive, cloth-cutting clearout exercise in the summer would probably only half the monthly losses - if that, given we'd have to bring in some (cheaper) replacements.

Aye, sadly so. According to those figures in the tabloids, we've got Davies on 18kpw, Spearing on 18, Trotter on 11, Derik on 10, Dervite on 9, Moxey on 8.5 and Madine on 8 all out of contract this summer. That's £82,500 a week, or about £357,000 a month.

Even if for argument's sake you imagine we can find some suckers to rid us of Pratley's £14kpw (payable until June 2018) and Amos's £16kpw (to June 2019), that's still only £112,500 a week or £487,500 a month.

You could also get rid of some other players coming to the end of their contracts this summer - Wilson and Clayton from previous regimes, Wheater and Buxton from this – but we're then getting into diminishing returns. And as you say, we'd need replacements, because after the theoretical cloth-cutting explained above our squad would be Howard, Alnwick, Beevers, Chris Taylor, Proctor, Wilkinson, Vela and kids.

Yes, we gave out some ridiculous contracts, but that is now literally only half the problem.

[BWFC_Insane]

I havent read the accounts.

But surely the key to continuing to trade is a sensible wage bill and not signing shit heads like Sordell for mega bucks. We won't have that many players contracted to us after this summer. Whichhas got to help the finances!

There isnt anything other than players to sell; selling the ground, who to?

We might not even own the ground depending upon which assets the Blumarble loan is secured against.

This is far removed from just having to cut costs. The owners don't even agree on the percentage of shares they each own.

There isn't a quick fix here. The 80s have returned with a vengeance. Only this time it's personal.

[Bruce Rioja]

I've paid for 2 years to run this site so there better be a reason to fecking whinge.

Has that been finalised? Cheers, DJB. Does the 'Donate' option now credit you should any of us wish to chip in towards your costs?

[officer_dibble]

If comtracts are only half the losses what is the other half then?

[DJBlu]

I've paid for 2 years to run this site so there better be a reason to fecking whinge.

Has that been finalised? Cheers, DJB. Does the 'Donate' option now credit you should any of us wish to chip in towards your costs?

We're in the process of transferring across. I've got a fax in my pocket.

Just got to sort a few little details so we have as little down time as possible.

I wouldn't worry about donations as I'll use it as a tax deductible in next years tax return!

[BWFC_Insane]

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/15 ... xt_season/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Supporters trust. Now saying basically they couldn't afford to run the club.

Funny how when the financial hole was even deeper they were demanding "first dibs".

Also it is rather pointless to make the calculation based on costs from 14/15 when we know these have reduced and will reduce further in June.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

it is rather pointless to make the calculation based on costs from 14/15 when we know these have reduced and will reduce further in June.

Which calculations? The ST's or TW's?

Who said we were losing £800,000 to £900,000 a month?

[BWFC_Insane]

it is rather pointless to make the calculation based on costs from 14/15 when we know these have reduced and will reduce further in June.

Which calculations? The ST's or TW's?

Who said we were losing £800,000 to £900,000 a month?

The ST's! They are projecting how much will be needed to keep the club running, but don't seem to factor in reduced costs.

[DJBlu]

Marc Iles is fast becoming a tit. Just needs a nipple in the middle of his head.

Reports like this are nothing short of bollocks filled with fresh air. As BWFC_Insane states. The club is getting cheaper to run and all these stories are from data that is 1-2 years old. The ST are a joke. It's like me saying I can't afford to buy a house but I'll be monitoring the situation to make sure someone fit and proper can.

It's feels like it would kill him to write anything positive about the club. The latest being Walsall are going to cash in on the turmoil. What's he going to write if we turn em over 3 or 4 nil?

Feck I need to stop reading the Bolton News.

Oh and whilst I'm at it. Why can't Bolton Council buy the stadium and lease it back as have many around the country. It will be a real shame if this club goes to the wall.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

it is rather pointless to make the calculation based on costs from 14/15 when we know these have reduced and will reduce further in June.

Which calculations? The ST's or TW's?

The ST's! They are projecting how much will be needed to keep the club running, but don't seem to factor in reduced costs.

OK. Didn't mean my first paragraph to sound as narky as it looks.

The ST have a stated agenda of "what's best for the club", and arguably a hidden one of "we are". If they're accidentally using the wrong figures, it's embarrassing; if they're purposefully using the wrong figures, it's misleading.

Who said we were losing £800,000 to £900,000 a month? Ken?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Marc Iles is fast becoming a tit. Just needs a nipple in the middle of his head.

Reports like this are nothing short of bollocks filled with fresh air. As BWFC_Insane states. The club is getting cheaper to run and all these stories are from data that is 1-2 years old. The ST are a joke. It's like me saying I can't afford to buy a house but I'll be monitoring the situation to make sure someone fit and proper can.

It's feels like it would kill him to write anything positive about the club. The latest being Walsall are going to cash in on the turmoil. What's he going to write if we turn em over 3 or 4 nil?

Feck I need to stop reading the Bolton News.

Oh and whilst I'm at it. Why can't Bolton Council buy the stadium and lease it back as have many around the country. It will be a real shame if this club goes to the wall.

If the Council have got tens of millions spare they're doing a good job of hiding it, even at the risk of losing their jobs in the next election as the general public suffer ever-worsening services for their council-tax stipend.

As for Iles, some people think he's being overly rosy, some think he's being needlessly negative; Deano fans think he's biased against their man, Ken fans think he's biased against theirs. As a very interested but reasonably impartial observer who happens to be in the same business, I think he's doing a difficult job rather well considering the shitstorm around the club. You can tell from his personal columns that he seems genuinely upset that the club is in severe difficulty and being pulled in two directions by two people who, reading between the lines, may not be entirely trustable with the future of the club.

[BWFC_Insane]

it is rather pointless to make the calculation based on costs from 14/15 when we know these have reduced and will reduce further in June.

Which calculations? The ST's or TW's?

The ST's! They are projecting how much will be needed to keep the club running, but don't seem to factor in reduced costs.

OK. Didn't mean my first paragraph to sound as narky as it looks.

The ST have a stated agenda of "what's best for the club", and arguably a hidden one of "we are". If they're accidentally using the wrong figures, it's embarrassing; if they're purposefully using the wrong figures, it's misleading.

Who said we were losing £800,000 to £900,000 a month? Ken?

The ST have added the 11M loss a year to the debts that need repaying to come up with that figure. My point is the 11M will presumably already have reduced and be reducing.

The ST saying they can't afford to run the club is sensible. Even if they are slightly overinflating everything the cost of running it is not going to be bearable for such an organisation. My issue is that they didn't do any of these maths when the running costs were higher and they were asking/demanding rather publically for "preferred bidder status". When challenged with "no chance you could run it" you got smart remarks back.

[Worthy4England]

What the Accounts actually say is this...

Trading Losses for the season 2016/17 [the season we're currently in] are estimated to be £11m and the Directors assess that this may well be the level of annual loss the group may face in the coming 12 months.

That's not a particularly clear sentence in that we don't know whether the "coming 12 months" are 12 months from the date of the accounts, 12 months from Jan 1 2017, 12 months from the end of the 2016/17 season. It's not unreasonable to assume (although like any assumption it could be wrong) - that £11m is current and that the Directors foresee that occurring for a further year at least, so you're already at £22m over a two year period including the one we're in.

If we were further to assume that Deano isn't going to magic up an interest free £11m and that Ken won't or doesn't have an interest free £11m then we almost certainly need some further credit facility which will cost us additional monies - so £25m over a 2 year period, wouldn't be a stretch. (We could try and sell anything that's not nailed down of course)

The actual Accounts report a loss of £6.7m for the Accounting period so it's easy to fall into a trap that says "of course that will decline, because we've cut costs" - but then you look at things like the Interest Credit of £9.4m that ED waived, the loss would have looked a lot worse. I would hazard that we're not currently paying Blumarble as KA doesn't seem to know clearly the interest rates nor the terms - so that's probably accruing on their books, and the notion that all non-player cost has remained static is almost certainly false, as prior to the Blumarble Loan, there was the Nucleus Finance one etc. etc. etc.

[TANGODANCER]

Relating to our debt as a similar topic and not sure how this works out, but I'm reading in today's Sun that Man United owe £409,mil. This is, it seems, related in some way to the pound collapsing following the Brexit vote? What's that all about then?

[Worthy4England]

Relting to our debt as a similar topic and not sure how this works out, but I'm reading in today's Sun that Man United owe £409,mil. This is, it seems, related in some way to the pound collapsing following the Brexit vote? What's that all about then?

Always knew Brexit was a great steer.

Manchester United are quoted on the New York Stock Exchange - so assume they've been hit by the fall in Sterling against the ($).

In terms of how much the number is, it's not actually important, until the point in time you can't cover it.

[Tombwfc]

To be fair to the ST (who represent 6,000 Bolton fans and have to make some kind of statement), and them asking for preferred bidder status last time - they obviously don't and never will have the kind of money required to save us, but then have Sports Shield (who were granted that status) done anything to date that they couldn't have done? Get a massive a payday loan - find a business partner - have that deal fall through at the last minute - find a new business partner - buy the club - immediately fall out with new business partner - lose control of the day to day running of the club - start squabbling on the internet. Is it impossible to think we wouldn't be any worse off?

Incidentally, do the accounts (or any of his various statements) state what the maximum Ken has lent the club any one point?

[Worthy4England]

To be fair to the ST (who represent 6,000 Bolton fans and have to make some kind of statement), and them asking for preferred bidder status last time - they obviously don't and never will have the kind of money required to save us, but then have Sports Shield (who were granted that status) done anything to date that they couldn't have done? Get a massive a payday loan - find a business partner - have that deal fall through at the last minute - find a new business partner - buy the club - immediately fall out with new business partner - lose control of the day to day running of the club - start squabbling on the internet. Is it impossible to think we wouldn't be any worse off?

Incidentally, do the accounts (or any of his various statements) state what the maximum Ken has lent the club any one point?

Lent, £3.5m. Paid back a 0% interest £3.5m. Administration Fees etc. if any, unknown.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Relting to our debt as a similar topic and not sure how this works out, but I'm reading in today's Sun that Man United owe £409,mil. This is, it seems, related in some way to the pound collapsing following the Brexit vote? What's that all about then?

Always knew Brexit was a great steer.

Manchester United are quoted on the New York Stock Exchange - so assume they've been hit by the fall in Sterling against the ($).

In terms of how much the number is, it's not actually important, until the point in time you can't cover it.

Sadly we are talking about a whole different level. There are a few football finance documents out there (not able to link just now, but google is your friend) that show Man U have a turnover of approx £500m, operating profits, even after servicing debts, of approx £100m, a wage bill of less than 50% of turnover, despite paying Ibrahimovic close to £300kpw, and a few other in excess of £200kpw. If they were to be available for sale they would be valued at north of £1.5bn. In that context £400m of debt looks entirely manageable.

Like many areas of life, in football the rich have got richer. A number of our top clubs turnover over £300m. Our accounts show in the championship we had turnover of £30m, and (I think) wage bill (or was it total expenses? of £29m. Projected losses of over £11m per year going forward. Suddenly any level of debt looks unmanageable, let alone the £15m that is in theory due very soon that we are carrying.

[TANGODANCER]

Questions : So, all in all, feasibly, only a massive injection of (foreign?) capital can save the club as everything is on a "can only get worse" scenario? See, if Ken is such an astute businessman, where and what did he visualise as our future when buying the club? Did he think ( or was lead to believe) that Dean Holdsworth was wealthier than he actually is? Did Holdsworth rely on someone else jumping in with him and pumping large amounts of money behind the club? Right now none of it makes too much sense...