Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Please ask questions and verify elsewhere. So if he goes for the winding up order today, then liquidates a few days later, meaning Inner Circle (ICI), owner of Burnden Leisure, and BWFC are liquidated Ken gets:

£13m - Black hole in our debt figure, that is essentially Ken borrowing from a loan company against future fees/ticket sales/EFL payments (A process known as factoring), that money going into ICI, and which has left ICI to a place only Ken knows.

BWFC should have paid this money back to the loan company when the payments from fees/EFL/tickets arrived but they didn't. So the £13m is essentially gone to Ken, and is essentially owed to BWFC from ICI, so BWFC can pay off the loan company.

£8m - is owed to Moonshift from ICI. The £5m secured loan from ED to pay BM, and £3m of "informal" unsecured loans from ED to KA. If ICI is liquidated Ken (ICI) will not have to pay this back.

£5m - KA lent BWFC to pay off BM. Ken would still be a secured creditor against the assets of Burnden Leisure in a liquidation scenario. The assets of Burnden Leisure are thought to cover the secured creditors in a liquidation scenario.

So he essentially gets £26m.

The downside of liquidating is that there will be an investigation where Ken might be asked about how he managed the club, particularly during any period of insolvency.

If he adjourns tomorrow, then, if you believe what is being said on the other site, the option for Moonshift to reclaim Ken's shareholding becomes active again in 7 days (Ken got an extension today), unless he pays off the £5m secured loan they lent him. So he has to sell by the 9th April to be anything except just the secured creditor for the £5m he lent BWFC to pay off BM. It now seems that two parties (Howards's group, and this Gaspard group) have an agreement with Moonshift and the other secured creditors to purchase the club, so Ken would need to sell to Bassini's group quickly to avoid this scenario.

He still might get away with the £13m, but lets say less questions will be asked if it is Bassini buying than some of the other parties linked with us.

He also might agree a pay off, for example Howard's team were said to be offering £2m.

So me might get anything from £5m - £20m. Probably £18m - £20m. But there are risks such as the process being taken out of his hands, and people acquiring the club who might not turn a blind eye to the £13m.

[BWFC_Insane]

Please ask questions and verify elsewhere. So if he goes for the winding up order today, then liquidates a few days later, meaning Inner Circle (ICI), owner of Burnden Leisure, and BWFC are liquidated Ken gets:

£13m - Black hole in our debt figure, that is essentially Ken borrowing from a loan company against future fees/ticket sales/EFL payments (A process known as factoring), that money going into ICI, and which has left ICI to a place only Ken knows.

BWFC should have paid this money back to the loan company when the payments from fees/EFL/tickets arrived but they didn't. So the £13m is essentially gone to Ken, and is essentially owed to BWFC from ICI, so BWFC can pay off the loan company.

£8m - is owed to Moonshift from ICI. The £5m secured loan from ED to pay BM, and £3m of "informal" unsecured loans from ED to KA. If ICI is liquidated Ken (ICI) will not have to pay this back.

£5m - KA lent BWFC to pay off BM. Ken would still be a secured creditor against the assets of Burnden Leisure in a liquidation scenario. The assets of Burnden Leisure are thought to cover the secured creditors in a liquidation scenario.

So he essentially gets £26m.

The downside of liquidating is that there will be an investigation where Ken might be asked about how he managed the club, particularly during any period of insolvency.

If he adjourns tomorrow, then, if you believe what is being said on the other site, the option for Moonshift to reclaim Ken's shareholding becomes active again in 7 days (Ken got an extension today), unless he pays off the £5m secured loan they lent him. So he has to sell by the 9th April to be anything except just the secured creditor for the £5m he lent BWFC to pay off BM. It now seems that two parties (Howards's group, and this Gaspard group) have an agreement with Moonshift and the other secured creditors to purchase the club, so Ken would need to sell to Bassini's group quickly to avoid this scenario.

He still might get away with the £13m, but lets say less questions will be asked if it is Bassini buying than some of the other parties linked with us.

He also might agree a pay off, for example Howard's team were said to be offering £2m.

So me might get anything from £5m - £20m. Probably £18m - £20m. But there are risks such as the process being taken out of his hands, and people acquiring the club who might not turn a blind eye to the £13m.

There is lots wrong here. ICI is not being liquidated. Ken owes Moonshift 5M (some claim its 8M). He has this loan secured against the club. So if BL is liquidated then as a secured creditor KA will receive this back- but still owe it to Moonshift.

The £13M value and situation is highly speculative and based on nothing as far as I can see. Even if we accept your maths you are double counting £5M.

If the club get liquidated then KA still owes Moonshift - he MAY get this back from the liquidation process but would still be liable for that debt. His plan MAY be to try and challenge the validity of that loan to try and keep that money as has been suggested elsewhere - but no guarantee he can do that.

Should we be liquidated he may well end up with nothing and also be in hot water.

Should someone buy us he will not make very much.

That isn't to say he's not done very well for his £1 investment. He will have. But your figures don't add up. And those that do are somewhat dubious!

[truewhite15]

Somebody please inject some optimism here. Something to realistically hope for, to hang on to...

[bristol_Wanderer3]

There is lots wrong here. ICI is not being liquidated. Ken owes Moonshift 5M (some claim its 8M). He has this loan secured against the club. So if BL is liquidated then as a secured creditor KA will receive this back- but still owe it to Moonshift.

The £13M value and situation is highly speculative and based on nothing as far as I can see. Even if we accept your maths you are double counting £5M.

If the club get liquidated then KA still owes Moonshift - he MAY get this back from the liquidation process but would still be liable for that debt. His plan MAY be to try and challenge the validity of that loan to try and keep that money as has been suggested elsewhere - but no guarantee he can do that.

Should we be liquidated he may well end up with nothing and also be in hot water.

Should someone buy us he will not make very much.

That isn't to say he's not done very well for his £1 investment. He will have. But your figures don't add up. And those that do are somewhat dubious!

I will answer your points:

1.) ICI would be liquidated. It is the sole owner of Burnden Leisure i.e. the company that owns BWFC and all it's assets, and has no other purpose.
2.) The £13m, has been reported in the BEN, was originally found by Basran's forensic accounting. Sometimes reported as £10m or £12m.
3.) KA would not owe Moonshift. ICI owe Moonshift, ICI would have no assets under liquidation.
4.) KA would still be a secured creditor for the £5m he lent to BWFC to pay off BM. So it looks like double counting, but it isn't.

[Harry Genshaw]

I always knew Ken was a ruthless c*nt but for the last couple of years I've been happy to think "well at least he's our ruthless c*nt" & generally ignored the wailing and gnashing of teeth from our various creditors.

Now we're hoping for an amicable, friendly divorce and all I'm thinking is "oh no. He's a right ruthless c*nt!"

If we do get out of this, there's going to be some pain involved.

[BWFC_Insane]

There is lots wrong here. ICI is not being liquidated. Ken owes Moonshift 5M (some claim its 8M). He has this loan secured against the club. So if BL is liquidated then as a secured creditor KA will receive this back- but still owe it to Moonshift.

The £13M value and situation is highly speculative and based on nothing as far as I can see. Even if we accept your maths you are double counting £5M.

If the club get liquidated then KA still owes Moonshift - he MAY get this back from the liquidation process but would still be liable for that debt. His plan MAY be to try and challenge the validity of that loan to try and keep that money as has been suggested elsewhere - but no guarantee he can do that.

Should we be liquidated he may well end up with nothing and also be in hot water.

Should someone buy us he will not make very much.

That isn't to say he's not done very well for his £1 investment. He will have. But your figures don't add up. And those that do are somewhat dubious!

I will answer your points:

1.) ICI would be liquidated. It is the sole owner of Burnden Leisure i.e. the club that owns BWFC and all it's assets, and has no other purpose.
2.) The £13m, has been reported in the BEN, was originally found by Basran's forensic accounting. Sometimes reported as £10m or £12m.
3.) KA would not owe Moonshift. ICI owe Moonshift, ICI would have no assets under liquidation.
4.) KA would still be a secured creditor for the £5m he lent to BWFC to pay off BM. So it looks like double counting, but it isn't.

Not as far as I understand it - the WUP is against the club itself. ICI owns the shares but is not the parent company.

The BN reported the debts total exceeded £10M. But this is a not a black hole. This is money owed to the council, caterers, Brett Warburton - you allege Ken has been "creaming this money off" but I think that is unsubstantiated at this stage. We've not been able to pay bills for a long time. I've no doubt Ken has taken plenty out but - your number is a wild estimation at this stage.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

There is lots wrong here. ICI is not being liquidated. Ken owes Moonshift 5M (some claim its 8M). He has this loan secured against the club. So if BL is liquidated then as a secured creditor KA will receive this back- but still owe it to Moonshift.

The £13M value and situation is highly speculative and based on nothing as far as I can see. Even if we accept your maths you are double counting £5M.

If the club get liquidated then KA still owes Moonshift - he MAY get this back from the liquidation process but would still be liable for that debt. His plan MAY be to try and challenge the validity of that loan to try and keep that money as has been suggested elsewhere - but no guarantee he can do that.

Should we be liquidated he may well end up with nothing and also be in hot water.

Should someone buy us he will not make very much.

That isn't to say he's not done very well for his £1 investment. He will have. But your figures don't add up. And those that do are somewhat dubious!

I will answer your points:

1.) ICI would be liquidated. It is the sole owner of Burnden Leisure i.e. the club that owns BWFC and all it's assets, and has no other purpose.
2.) The £13m, has been reported in the BEN, was originally found by Basran's forensic accounting. Sometimes reported as £10m or £12m.
3.) KA would not owe Moonshift. ICI owe Moonshift, ICI would have no assets under liquidation.
4.) KA would still be a secured creditor for the £5m he lent to BWFC to pay off BM. So it looks like double counting, but it isn't.

Not as far as I understand it - the WUP is against the club itself. ICI owns the shares but is not the parent company.

The BN reported the debts total exceeded £10M. But this is a not a black hole. This is money owed to the council, caterers, Brett Warburton - you allege Ken has been "creaming this money off" but I think that is unsubstantiated at this stage. We've not been able to pay bills for a long time. I've no doubt Ken has taken plenty out but - your number is a wild estimation at this stage.

Do some further checking If Ken goes for liquidation he would wind up ICI.

I have verified this information. These aren't "my" numbers in the slightest. I think we should know about them and discuss them though...

[BWFC_Insane]

There is lots wrong here. ICI is not being liquidated. Ken owes Moonshift 5M (some claim its 8M). He has this loan secured against the club. So if BL is liquidated then as a secured creditor KA will receive this back- but still owe it to Moonshift.

The £13M value and situation is highly speculative and based on nothing as far as I can see. Even if we accept your maths you are double counting £5M.

If the club get liquidated then KA still owes Moonshift - he MAY get this back from the liquidation process but would still be liable for that debt. His plan MAY be to try and challenge the validity of that loan to try and keep that money as has been suggested elsewhere - but no guarantee he can do that.

Should we be liquidated he may well end up with nothing and also be in hot water.

Should someone buy us he will not make very much.

That isn't to say he's not done very well for his £1 investment. He will have. But your figures don't add up. And those that do are somewhat dubious!

I will answer your points:

1.) ICI would be liquidated. It is the sole owner of Burnden Leisure i.e. the club that owns BWFC and all it's assets, and has no other purpose.
2.) The £13m, has been reported in the BEN, was originally found by Basran's forensic accounting. Sometimes reported as £10m or £12m.
3.) KA would not owe Moonshift. ICI owe Moonshift, ICI would have no assets under liquidation.
4.) KA would still be a secured creditor for the £5m he lent to BWFC to pay off BM. So it looks like double counting, but it isn't.

Not as far as I understand it - the WUP is against the club itself. ICI owns the shares but is not the parent company.

The BN reported the debts total exceeded £10M. But this is a not a black hole. This is money owed to the council, caterers, Brett Warburton - you allege Ken has been "creaming this money off" but I think that is unsubstantiated at this stage. We've not been able to pay bills for a long time. I've no doubt Ken has taken plenty out but - your number is a wild estimation at this stage.

Do some further checking If Ken goes for liquidation he would wind up ICI.

I have verified this information. These aren't "my" numbers in the slightest. I think we should know about them and discuss them though...

Unconvinced - because in the event the club is liquidated ICI is Ken's vehicle for "debt recovery"......

[Jim_McDonuts]

Here we go, here we go, here we go
Here we go, here we go, here we go-o
Here we go, here we go, here we go
Here we go-o, here we go : |

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Unconvinced - because in the event the club is liquidated ICI is Ken's vehicle for "debt recovery"......

Rather depends on how the loan to BWFC was written. Was it ICI to BWFC, or KA (or something associated with KA) to BWFC?

[Bruce Rioja]

Bassini sorting his act out is far from positive news.

It's not the best possible news, but it's not the worst either. The worst is extinction. The second-worst is keeping Ken.

I'm inclined to believe that keeping Ken / appointing Bassini are tantamount to the same.

[BWFC_Insane]

Bassini sorting his act out is far from positive news.

It's not the best possible news, but it's not the worst either. The worst is extinction. The second-worst is keeping Ken.

I'm inclined to believe that keeping Ken / appointing Bassini are tantamount to the same.

Depends who is backing Bassini....ultimately this can only be resolved by money. Not good intention or goodwill....so anyone with money....better than the horrific alternative.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Bassini sorting his act out is far from positive news.

It's not the best possible news, but it's not the worst either. The worst is extinction. The second-worst is keeping Ken.

I'm inclined to believe that keeping Ken / appointing Bassini are tantamount to the same.

Oh, Bassini's quite possibly inept. Ken, IMO, is something worse – and, given what's happening today, evidently unable to run the club. I guess we may see soon. I just hope it works out for our club.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Five to go till our No.39. Possibly fewer now. Fingers crossed, everyone.

[Jim_McDonuts]

C'mon Wanderers

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Sounds like they are going for the adjournment (sweaty phew)

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Via LoV's man in court

7-day adjournment requested
Undisclosed party agreed terms, due diligence not completed
Hilary begging for 7 days, reading from the rule book, getting judge to sympathise with liquidation option

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Adjourned till 8th May.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Wow 8th May?

[Jim_McDonuts]

Great.
So, erm, who's paying wages, opening stadia etc. etc.??