Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 13, 2019 4:49 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:36 pm
Paul Appleton...administrator at Coventry....google makes for some interesting reading....

This. Is. Only. The. Beginning.
Such as?

Coventry was/is a fiendishly complicated ownership situation (administrated Coventry City Football Club Limited, Sisu-owned Coventry City Football Club Holdings Ltd, stadium-owning Arena Coventry Limited, etc), with which I'm not sure ours bears close comparison. Yes there's Burnden Leisure and BWFC, but we're essentially owned by one bloke. Club owns stadium. There are debts. Best-presented case wins. Right?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 13, 2019 5:06 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:49 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:36 pm
Paul Appleton...administrator at Coventry....google makes for some interesting reading....

This. Is. Only. The. Beginning.
Such as?

Coventry was/is a fiendishly complicated ownership situation (administrated Coventry City Football Club Limited, Sisu-owned Coventry City Football Club Holdings Ltd, stadium-owning Arena Coventry Limited, etc), with which I'm not sure ours bears close comparison. Yes there's Burnden Leisure and BWFC, but we're essentially owned by one bloke. Club owns stadium. There are debts. Best-presented case wins. Right?
I'm sure it'll be made a little less easy than that, but I was in the same place re: Coventry. doesn't appear to be the same situation.

Maybe. I. Should. Use. Some. Single. Word. Sentences. For. Dramatic. Effect.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 13, 2019 5:12 pm

The main (early) problem at Cov seemed to be determining which entity had the Golden Share, the rather unnecessarily Harry Potterly entitled right to be in the FA & (E)FL.

But the fact the winning bidders were known to Sisu wasn't popular.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22913459
"I realise and appreciate the end result of the sale process will not necessarily be welcomed by a large number of Coventry fans," said Appleton. "However, the bid from Otium Entertainment Group Limited was substantially more than any of the other three bids received."

All three former Sky Blues directors involved, including ex-chairman Dulieu, who was also previously a director at Southampton, have a connection with the club's current owners Sisu, who took over the club in 2007.

"It was the bid which gave the greatest return to the unsecured, non-connected creditors of CCFC Limited by a considerable margin," added Appleton. "This offer allows me to achieve the purpose of the administration and, following discussions with the Football League, I am hopeful a completion of the sale can be achieved as swiftly as possible."

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon May 13, 2019 5:23 pm

"It has got to the stage where the Trust could not sit back and allow the club to go into liquidation. Decisive action had to be taken and the Trust believes the decision is in the best interests of Bolton Wanderers."
^^ Significant comment I feel.

FIrst stage of Kenectomy..

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 13, 2019 5:44 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:23 pm
"It has got to the stage where the Trust could not sit back and allow the club to go into liquidation. Decisive action had to be taken and the Trust believes the decision is in the best interests of Bolton Wanderers."
^^ Significant comment I feel.

FIrst stage of Kenectomy..
I'm not against the ST, but what approximately have they done that isn't sitting back?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 13, 2019 5:48 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:44 pm
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:23 pm
"It has got to the stage where the Trust could not sit back and allow the club to go into liquidation. Decisive action had to be taken and the Trust believes the decision is in the best interests of Bolton Wanderers."
^^ Significant comment I feel.

FIrst stage of Kenectomy..
I'm not against the ST, but what approximately have they done that isn't sitting back?
The "Trust" mentioned here is the Eddie Davies one.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 13, 2019 5:50 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:48 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:44 pm
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:23 pm
"It has got to the stage where the Trust could not sit back and allow the club to go into liquidation. Decisive action had to be taken and the Trust believes the decision is in the best interests of Bolton Wanderers."
^^ Significant comment I feel.

FIrst stage of Kenectomy..
I'm not against the ST, but what approximately have they done that isn't sitting back?
The "Trust" mentioned here is the Eddie Davies one.
Ahhh - I see! :oops: (second time I've had to use that today)...

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon May 13, 2019 5:52 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:49 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:36 pm
Paul Appleton...administrator at Coventry....google makes for some interesting reading....

This. Is. Only. The. Beginning.
Such as?

Coventry was/is a fiendishly complicated ownership situation (administrated Coventry City Football Club Limited, Sisu-owned Coventry City Football Club Holdings Ltd, stadium-owning Arena Coventry Limited, etc), with which I'm not sure ours bears close comparison. Yes there's Burnden Leisure and BWFC, but we're essentially owned by one bloke. Club owns stadium. There are debts. Best-presented case wins. Right?

Appleton was administrator for well over a year. Took £440,000 in fees. Some in club accused him of deliberately delaying process in order to cream off more fees. Not unusual accusation for administrators. After all it is how they ‘make their dough’.

Not saying it will be the same here. But I suspect Ken will make it as hard as possible. And ultimately I suspect we will lose this summer in the main. And be building a squad from 7/8 players as the season starts.

I also think that unless he walks Parky will be manager next season given the time for someone to buy us, sack him and appoint whilst also building a squad will be non existent.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon May 13, 2019 5:54 pm

EFL have confirmed the automatic 12 point penalty....So -12 next season unless they add to it with the Brentford game penalty....

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 13, 2019 5:58 pm

Not like you to take such a pessimistic view of things... :D

I can't speak with any authority at all on his fees but it sounds like a fairly intractable situation at Cov, so I imagine it took time. (In a way, you;d hope it would, rather than rushing to a knee-jerk conclusion.) I imagine this delay also encouraged lots of internet comment from Why Can't It Happen Now people: you may be aware of the type.

Don't really know how Ken can make it hard considering he's not a major creditor: surely EDT, James and HMRC are the bigger voices. And I suspect all of them have had quite enough of our Kenneth.

I do, however, share your concerns about the timelag.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by nelson66 » Mon May 13, 2019 6:05 pm

Administrators first job - open the books and have a look at the state of our accounts.
I wonder if some skeletons are going to pop out and bite our ex chairman on the .....
The Whites Are Staying Up 2020 :pissed: :grin:

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon May 13, 2019 6:16 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:58 pm
Not like you to take such a pessimistic view of things... :D

I can't speak with any authority at all on his fees but it sounds like a fairly intractable situation at Cov, so I imagine it took time. (In a way, you;d hope it would, rather than rushing to a knee-jerk conclusion.) I imagine this delay also encouraged lots of internet comment from Why Can't It Happen Now people: you may be aware of the type.

Don't really know how Ken can make it hard considering he's not a major creditor: surely EDT, James and HMRC are the bigger voices. And I suspect all of them have had quite enough of our Kenneth.

I do, however, share your concerns about the timelag.
Ken will need to provide information. Or someone who represents him will.

I have doubts about the process. Ken is now off radar. But he didn’t get his administrator....how does he react now?

Anyhow I don’t think it’s a pessimistic prediction. Pessimism would be going into the autumn with no new owner in place. I think what I’ve outlined is more or less best case scenario given where we are now if you are realistic about the process.

If absolutely everything goes as smoothly as is possible we might have a new owner getting their feet through the door end of June. But this is Bolton....

Add a few weeks on for Ken being unresponsive, complex creditor situation. You are looking at mid July onwards. But then owners will have a lot to do in the immediate few weeks.

It’s the worst time to go into admin. Next season in reality is probably a write off. We needed to get into admin but no point being blind to what that means. There is a process that takes time. And there is an unholy mess to sort. It probably costs us next season. Almost certainly, for the right owner it will be worth it. But Iles is right in his BN article today. This is not a quick fix, quite the opposite.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon May 13, 2019 6:33 pm

Bet you’re fun at birthday parties. :D

“Do you ever wonder how many you’ve got left?”

Me, I’m just celebrating the first steps of Kenectomy.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 13, 2019 6:42 pm

Trying to get us on a firm footing is waaaaayyyyyyyy more important than "next season".

We need to try to get to a place where we don't come back to this place...

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon May 13, 2019 6:42 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:58 pm

Don't really know how Ken can make it hard considering he's not a major creditor: surely EDT, James and HMRC are the bigger voices. And I suspect all of them have had quite enough of our Kenneth.
I am not sure how we define "major creditor" but in terms of pure sums owed and status, then Ken is the 2nd largest, and is a secured creditor. I am working off: James £6.5m, Ken £5m, Brett Warburton £2.5m being the secured creditors. EDT isn't actually a creditor, they only had the ability to put the club in admin due to having a charge over Ken's shares. They are creditors of Inner Circle Investments. It will be interesting to see what Ken does with that now.

HMRC, Macron and the others who have joined the winding up petition will probably be considered more important creditors as they have in theory the ability to have a winding up order granted and put the club within days of liquidation.

So if those on the winding up petition are satisfied, I don't know how it would work if Ken disagreed with the other secured creditors about, for example, who was going to become the new owners, or any other aspect of the process. Obviously it would be down to the administrator, but how much influence would Ken's view have? Does anyone have any views or knowledge here?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 13, 2019 7:02 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:42 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:58 pm

Don't really know how Ken can make it hard considering he's not a major creditor: surely EDT, James and HMRC are the bigger voices. And I suspect all of them have had quite enough of our Kenneth.
I am not sure how we define "major creditor" but in terms of pure sums owed and status, then Ken is the 2nd largest, and is a secured creditor. I am working off: James £6.5m, Ken £5m, Brett Warburton £2.5m being the secured creditors. EDT isn't actually a creditor, they only had the ability to put the club in admin due to having a charge over Ken's shares. They are creditors of Inner Circle Investments. It will be interesting to see what Ken does with that now.

HMRC, Macron and the others who have joined the winding up petition will probably be considered more important creditors as they have in theory the ability to have a winding up order granted and put the club within days of liquidation.

So if those on the winding up petition are satisfied, I don't know how it would work if Ken disagreed with the other secured creditors about, for example, who was going to become the new owners, or any other aspect of the process. Obviously it would be down to the administrator, but how much influence would Ken's view have? Does anyone have any views or knowledge here?
Not sure that's correct in relation to Moonshift/Fildraw - they had a charge over the Club at the last count (in the Accounts) of £10m...I don't recall us paying that ever...

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon May 13, 2019 7:14 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:33 pm
Bet you’re fun at birthday parties. :D

“Do you ever wonder how many you’ve got left?”

Me, I’m just celebrating the first steps of Kenectomy.
I get what you are saying. But celebrating being in admin feels like something the twitter kids do without understanding the implications. Not the least potentially loss of jobs for staff at the club.

It’s a serious business this. It isn’t a wipe the slate clean and enjoy like it used to be for football clubs. This is going to have a very serious effect probably for the next few seasons and who knows what after. It is the only way out (as I said in January - might as well point out I was right for the hell of it), but that doesn’t mean this is a good thing. Nor does it mean we get a good or a rich owner. We could still end up with Bassini.

And whilst you will point out how I’m doom and gloom...it’s a terrible position to be in administration. It isn’t the end of the club but apart from that it’s the next worst thing that can happen. And it’s happened not out of a plan but out of necessity.

I’m pleased and relieved we’ve got a way forward. But also not looking forward to the next few years.

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon May 13, 2019 7:25 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:02 pm

Not sure that's correct in relation to Moonshift/Fildraw - they had a charge over the Club at the last count (in the Accounts) of £10m...I don't recall us paying that ever...
Yes. It became active on promotion to the Prem, or change of ownership iirc. Would EDT putting it into admin constitute change of ownership?

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by Worthy4England » Mon May 13, 2019 7:34 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:25 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:02 pm

Not sure that's correct in relation to Moonshift/Fildraw - they had a charge over the Club at the last count (in the Accounts) of £10m...I don't recall us paying that ever...
Yes. It became active on promotion to the Prem, or change of ownership iirc. Would EDT putting it into admin constitute change of ownership?
They have a couple of charges registered iirc. Fairly sure there were terms relating to admin and liquidation (not sure what they were though).

PBP security I think is against the hotel (rather than Burnden Leisure)...

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Re: Ken Anderson - New Owner (Definitely. For Now ..... )

Post by officer_dibble » Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm

I’m pleased Ken’s gone, or going. I can’t see him being involved in admin given its Fildraw footing the bill. When do we get the accounts - when can we see whAt money he has moved about, how much Lee and Aldridge got for consultancy fees during this fiasco? It would be lovely to hold him to some form of account.

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