Hanging on, January Transfer Window thread 2017

[BWFC_Insane]

Well, I guess both would only be till the end of the season on loan. And the Clough money would help cover enough of their wages.

I agree in terms of the short term issue. However, I feel promotion has to be the aim now. And I guess we just have to try and maximise what we can do.

Hypothetical as I'm not sure Clough is in high enough demand to command a large enough fee.

Sorry, I thought you meant signing them permanently. I think doing that would be a mistake, but selling Clough for four months of ALF and Ameobi would be among the most mental things we've ever done.

It'd be number one with a bullet. Although I know this isn't a realistic proposition, just BWFCI doubling down on the idea that our 21-year-old forward, who leads the team in goals and assists, is total shite. Nevertheless, even his own scenario would leave us (were we to miss out on promotion), in League One without Ameobi, Le Fondre or Clough, and having already spunked the money generated from the sale of the latter to pay loan fees for the other two.

That's got to be worse than appointing Sammy Lee or giving a three year deal to a 31-year-old Keith Andrews.

I'd suggest in our current system Clough is often a passenger. For me he worked on the left initially, but now teams have worked it out. And show him outside and block off him cutting in. He needs to play behind a striker, but for me Vela is currently too good there to move.

He's had little impact for a while. He's a good player but my gut feeling is he's too lightweight to make it at the top level. Which means he's never going to be the hugely expensive player we hope. I might be wrong. He has all the talent going, but definitely isn't strong enough right now.

For me it isn't cut and dried. We might go up, we might not. Clough definitely adds quality, but he's not always the best finisher and his ability for me is often a bit wasted in our side. Ameobi can on occasion ghost past three players and is very unpredictable. Not consistent. But I felt after he settled in, was more effective in some ways than Clough. Certainly a more all round player. Clough doesn't defend as well, and you can't give him the ball in tight positions as he's just not that type. Ideally we'd get Ameobi back, another striker (better than Proctor) and be done. If we can do that without selling anyone, then great.

[Andy Waller]

Well, I guess both would only be till the end of the season on loan. And the Clough money would help cover enough of their wages.

I agree in terms of the short term issue. However, I feel promotion has to be the aim now. And I guess we just have to try and maximise what we can do.

Hypothetical as I'm not sure Clough is in high enough demand to command a large enough fee.

Sorry, I thought you meant signing them permanently. I think doing that would be a mistake, but selling Clough for four months of ALF and Ameobi would be among the most mental things we've ever done.

It'd be number one with a bullet. Although I know this isn't a realistic proposition, just BWFCI doubling down on the idea that our 21-year-old forward, who leads the team in goals and assists, is total shite. Nevertheless, even his own scenario would leave us (were we to miss out on promotion), in League One without Ameobi, Le Fondre or Clough, and having already spunked the money generated from the sale of the latter to pay loan fees for the other two.

That's got to be worse than appointing Sammy Lee or giving a three year deal to a 31-year-old Keith Andrews.

I'd suggest in our current system Clough is often a passenger. For me he worked on the left initially, but now teams have worked it out. And show him outside and block off him cutting in. He needs to play behind a striker, but for me Vela is currently too good there to move.

He's had little impact for a while. He's a good player but my gut feeling is he's too lightweight to make it at the top level. Which means he's never going to be the hugely expensive player we hope. I might be wrong. He has all the talent going, but definitely isn't strong enough right now.

For me it isn't cut and dried. We might go up, we might not. Clough definitely adds quality, but he's not always the best finisher and his ability for me is often a bit wasted in our side. Ameobi can on occasion ghost past three players and is very unpredictable. Not consistent. But I felt after he settled in, was more effective in some ways than Clough. Certainly a more all round player. Clough doesn't defend as well, and you can't give him the ball in tight positions as he's just not that type. Ideally we'd get Ameobi back, another striker (better than Proctor) and be done. If we can do that without selling anyone, then great.

I think the same about Clough, in his defence, I think he's playing well below the level he should be to be effective. I could see him doing well at a better footballing club.

It doesn't help that most of the right backs in this league are looking to flatten him every time he gets the ball too.

[BWFC_Insane]

When Clough next bags a few goals, I've no doubt in binary internet world, people will be reposting my posts from here to make a point. But stepping away from the binary, I think Clough is very good. I just don't think he's at his best on the left, especially in games where we don't dominate the ball. I'm not sure we will accomodate him that well here, unless we get a more mobile striker he can play behind. Vela chases down Madine's knock downs etc...Clough is not that sort, and needs someone with more ability than Madine to feed (say, Le Fondre).

So I like Clough, I think he's good. It was a very hypothetical situation that likely won't occur. I think the question has to be in general, not just in relation to Zach, IF we don't go up, what happens. Because the concern is then having to sell our best players off fairly cheaply (and release others) to bridge the financial gap and getting stuck in this division.

[Hoboh]

When Clough next bags a few goals, I've no doubt in binary internet world, people will be reposting my posts from here to make a point. But stepping away from the binary, I think Clough is very good. I just don't think he's at his best on the left, especially in games where we don't dominate the ball. I'm not sure we will accomodate him that well here, unless we get a more mobile striker he can play behind. Vela chases down Madine's knock downs etc...Clough is not that sort, and needs someone with more ability than Madine to feed (say, Le Fondre).

So I like Clough, I think he's good. It was a very hypothetical situation that likely won't occur. I think the question has to be in general, not just in relation to Zach, IF we don't go up, what happens. Because the concern is then having to sell our best players off fairly cheaply (and release others) to bridge the financial gap and getting stuck in this division.

The question with Clough though is, is he good enough to compensate for his build/lack of stature?

One thing I admired about George Best, not a big bloke by any account but he was talented enough to miss most of the 'cut him in half challenges' he received and he still delivered.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

In terms of this season Clough is still the most crucial player for our promotion chances imho. We won 9 in 10 between early October and early December. Clough got 7 in this period, and got the important first goal in 5 of those games, and in 4 of those 5 no one else scored. In the 7 games before that, when Clough didn't play, we got 4 draws and 3 defeats, scoring 3 goals!! Even in the Chesterfield, Shrewsbury, Scunthorpe games where he has had relatively poor performances, he has had at last 6 attempts on goal that I can remember that could easily have gone in. We simply have no other reliable source of goals, Madine can go games without an attempt on goal!

If we don't go up then Clough may well leave, but that is a totally different situation. We would need to sell and cut costs to survive, and you can't expect any decent player we have to hang around in L1 if they have opportunities at a higher level. It will be a totally different squad and club next season if we are still in L1.

[BWFC_Insane]

When Clough next bags a few goals, I've no doubt in binary internet world, people will be reposting my posts from here to make a point. But stepping away from the binary, I think Clough is very good. I just don't think he's at his best on the left, especially in games where we don't dominate the ball. I'm not sure we will accomodate him that well here, unless we get a more mobile striker he can play behind. Vela chases down Madine's knock downs etc...Clough is not that sort, and needs someone with more ability than Madine to feed (say, Le Fondre).

So I like Clough, I think he's good. It was a very hypothetical situation that likely won't occur. I think the question has to be in general, not just in relation to Zach, IF we don't go up, what happens. Because the concern is then having to sell our best players off fairly cheaply (and release others) to bridge the financial gap and getting stuck in this division.

The question with Clough though is, is he good enough to compensate for his build/lack of stature?

One thing I admired about George Best, not a big bloke by any account but he was talented enough to miss most of the 'cut him in half challenges' he received and he still delivered.

I think he'll get a bit stronger on the ball. It isn't his size that is the issue, it is more at times, he could be a little more robust when on the ball. I do think that will come with experience though. Its also as you say, about being clever and evading the rough stuff. Again comes with experience. Right now, Clough tends to run into people a lot.

[BWFC_Insane]

In terms of this season Clough is still the most crucial player for our promotion chances imho. We won 9 in 10 between early October and early December. Clough got 7 in this period, and got the important first goal in 5 of those games, and in 4 of those 5 no one else scored. In the 7 games before that, when Clough didn't play, we got 4 draws and 3 defeats, scoring 3 goals!! Even in the Chesterfield, Shrewsbury, Scunthorpe games where he has had relatively poor performances, he has had at last 6 attempts on goal that I can remember that could easily have gone in. We simply have no other reliable source of goals, Madine can go games without an attempt on goal!

If we don't go up then Clough may well leave, but that is a totally different situation. We would need to sell and cut costs to survive, and you can't expect any decent player we have to hang around in L1 if they have opportunities at a higher level. It will be a totally different squad and club next season if we are still in L1.

But hypothetically do you think we have a better chance of going up with the squad we have now, or one without Clough but with Ameobi and Le Fondre in?

[bristol_Wanderer3]

In terms of this season Clough is still the most crucial player for our promotion chances imho. We won 9 in 10 between early October and early December. Clough got 7 in this period, and got the important first goal in 5 of those games, and in 4 of those 5 no one else scored. In the 7 games before that, when Clough didn't play, we got 4 draws and 3 defeats, scoring 3 goals!! Even in the Chesterfield, Shrewsbury, Scunthorpe games where he has had relatively poor performances, he has had at last 6 attempts on goal that I can remember that could easily have gone in. We simply have no other reliable source of goals, Madine can go games without an attempt on goal!

If we don't go up then Clough may well leave, but that is a totally different situation. We would need to sell and cut costs to survive, and you can't expect any decent player we have to hang around in L1 if they have opportunities at a higher level. It will be a totally different squad and club next season if we are still in L1.

But hypothetically do you think we have a better chance of going up with the squad we have now, or one without Clough but with Ameobi and Le Fondre in?

The former and it isn't close. Le Fondre does not guarantee anything. He has had 2 seasons where he has hardly scored. He can't get a game at Wigan who have scored 20 in 25 games. He most certainly does not fit into Parky's hard running style of football. I am happy to have him here as a cheap loan option in addition to what we have, but he definitely does not replace Clough. Ameobi is a big loss for sure. But he himself has scored 2 league goals all season, and has only assisted 2 also. Those stats maybe understate his value to us, but ultimately Clough is clearly our main source of goals, in a team that still struggles to score enough goals. If Clough doesn't play for whatever reason, it is likely imho the next best option to start is Clayton, rather than an hypothetical Le Fondre.

[Bruce Rioja]

He's pretty much the same height as Kevin Keegan, and he did alright out of it. Clough's problem is that he always needs a controlling touch. The higher up the leagues you go the less of an opportunity you get to take that touch. It's why nobody ever came in for Andy Walker. And that is an actual fact.

[BWFC_Insane]

He's pretty much the same height as Kevin Keegan, and he did alright out of it. Clough's problem is that he always needs a controlling touch. The higher up the leagues you go the less of an opportunity you get to take that touch. It's why nobody ever came in for Andy Walker. And that is an actual fact.

You mean before he shoots? If so it isn't something I've actively noticed, but now you mention it.....

Hmmm.

[Tombwfc]

Well, I guess both would only be till the end of the season on loan. And the Clough money would help cover enough of their wages.

I agree in terms of the short term issue. However, I feel promotion has to be the aim now. And I guess we just have to try and maximise what we can do.

Hypothetical as I'm not sure Clough is in high enough demand to command a large enough fee.

Sorry, I thought you meant signing them permanently. I think doing that would be a mistake, but selling Clough for four months of ALF and Ameobi would be among the most mental things we've ever done.

It'd be number one with a bullet. Although I know this isn't a realistic proposition, just BWFCI doubling down on the idea that our 21-year-old forward, who leads the team in goals and assists, is total shite. Nevertheless, even his own scenario would leave us (were we to miss out on promotion), in League One without Ameobi, Le Fondre or Clough, and having already spunked the money generated from the sale of the latter to pay loan fees for the other two.

That's got to be worse than appointing Sammy Lee or giving a three year deal to a 31-year-old Keith Andrews.

I'd suggest in our current system Clough is often a passenger. For me he worked on the left initially, but now teams have worked it out. And show him outside and block off him cutting in. He needs to play behind a striker, but for me Vela is currently too good there to move.

He's had little impact for a while. He's a good player but my gut feeling is he's too lightweight to make it at the top level. Which means he's never going to be the hugely expensive player we hope. I might be wrong. He has all the talent going, but definitely isn't strong enough right now.

For me it isn't cut and dried. We might go up, we might not. Clough definitely adds quality, but he's not always the best finisher and his ability for me is often a bit wasted in our side. Ameobi can on occasion ghost past three players and is very unpredictable. Not consistent. But I felt after he settled in, was more effective in some ways than Clough. Certainly a more all round player. Clough doesn't defend as well, and you can't give him the ball in tight positions as he's just not that type. Ideally we'd get Ameobi back, another striker (better than Proctor) and be done. If we can do that without selling anyone, then great.

But not in the ways of sticking the ball in the back of the net - which, given as it is we've scored 16 less than Sheff Utd and 17 less than Scunthorpe - is a big issue. As per transfermrkt, they've both been on the pitch for roughly the same time (Clough around 50mins more), Zach has eight goals and five assists to Sammy's four goals and one assist. In terms of league goals, Ameobi has two for the season and has only scored six times in his life. He's unpredictable and occupies defenders, but that's only any good if we've got someone who can make use of the space.

If they'd both come in on loan at the start of the season, with similar reputations, and we could only keep one there'd be no doubt from anyone who it would be. I think Clough is underrated because he is one of ours - his record is excellent and his current weaknesses (lack of build and a lack of composure in one-on-one situations) are things which are only going to improve with age and experience.

[Bruce Rioja]

He's pretty much the same height as Kevin Keegan, and he did alright out of it. Clough's problem is that he always needs a controlling touch. The higher up the leagues you go the less of an opportunity you get to take that touch. It's why nobody ever came in for Andy Walker. And that is an actual fact.

You mean before he shoots? If so it isn't something I've actively noticed, but now you mention it.....

Hmmm.

Yes, exactly that.

[BWFC_Insane]

He's pretty much the same height as Kevin Keegan, and he did alright out of it. Clough's problem is that he always needs a controlling touch. The higher up the leagues you go the less of an opportunity you get to take that touch. It's why nobody ever came in for Andy Walker. And that is an actual fact.

You mean before he shoots? If so it isn't something I've actively noticed, but now you mention it.....

Hmmm.

Yes, exactly that.

I'm going to look out for that. I guess you are right, I don't remember him hitting many first time, ala Klasnic, who is one of the best I've seen at that on his day.

[Bruce Rioja]

He's pretty much the same height as Kevin Keegan, and he did alright out of it. Clough's problem is that he always needs a controlling touch. The higher up the leagues you go the less of an opportunity you get to take that touch. It's why nobody ever came in for Andy Walker. And that is an actual fact.

You mean before he shoots? If so it isn't something I've actively noticed, but now you mention it.....

Hmmm.

Yes, exactly that.

I'm going to look out for that. I guess you are right, I don't remember him hitting many first time, ala Klasnic, who is one of the best I've seen at that on his day.

I was at work before so hadn't time to expand, but I will now

At the time Walker was playing for us I played for a side, for whom, one of my team-mates was the son of Wanderers' chief scout at the time. For reasons I can't remember he ended up driving a few of us to an away game one Saturday so we got stuck into him re-Walker who was absolutely on fire at the time. "So, who's in for Walker"? "When's he off to United"? "How much will we get for him"? That sort of thing. Our mate's dad told us "Nobody's in for Walker, and he will never play Premier League football", to which we obviously accused him of talking shite and so on, and the reason he gave was the one I gave above re Clough. It's something I've looked out for ever since.
He was spot on. Despite Walker's career being basically ruined by that nice person from Swansea, if you look back at Walker's goals from the 92/93 season (happy to loan you the DVD) nearly all of Walker's goals involve him first controlling the ball, picking his spot and then finishing - something that he did to devastating effect of course.
So yeah, it's something I look out for in all forwards. As you say, Klasnic was magnificent at finishing with his first touch, as was Anelka and so on, but it sets them apart. Clough's still young and may well develop, I hope he does, of course. Gary Lineker, by his own admission, was shit at football, but attacked the ball in the 6 yard box and finished everything with a single touch.

[Andy Waller]

He's pretty much the same height as Kevin Keegan, and he did alright out of it. Clough's problem is that he always needs a controlling touch. The higher up the leagues you go the less of an opportunity you get to take that touch. It's why nobody ever came in for Andy Walker. And that is an actual fact.

You mean before he shoots? If so it isn't something I've actively noticed, but now you mention it.....

Hmmm.

Yes, exactly that.

I'm going to look out for that. I guess you are right, I don't remember him hitting many first time, ala Klasnic, who is one of the best I've seen at that on his day.

I was at work before so hadn't time to expand, but I will now

At the time Walker was playing for us I played for a side, for whom, one of my team-mates was the son of Wanderers' chief scout at the time. For reasons I can't remember he ended up driving a few of us to an away game one Saturday so we got stuck into him re-Walker who was absolutely on fire at the time. "So, who's in for Walker"? "When's he off to United"? "How much will we get for him"? That sort of thing. Our mate's dad told us "Nobody's in for Walker, and he will never play Premier League football", to which we obviously accused him of talking shite and so on, and the reason he gave was the one I gave above re Clough. It's something I've looked out for ever since.
He was spot on. Despite Walker's career being basically ruined by that tw*t from Swansea, if you look back at Walker's goals from the 92/93 season (happy to loan you the DVD) nearly all of Walker's goals involve him first controlling the ball, picking his spot and then finishing - something that he did to devastating effect of course.
So yeah, it's something I look out for in all forwards. As you say, Klasnic was magnificent at finishing with his first touch, as was Anelka and so on, but it sets them apart. Clough's still young and may well develop, I hope he does, of course. Gary Lineker, by his own admission, was shit at football, but attacked the ball in the 6 yard box and finished everything with a single touch.

Clough doesn't seem to struggle when he reacts and puts it in, he just seems to struggle when he has time to think about it, say a one on one.

He also needs to offer at least something on his left foot. Walker was left footed but could also have a decent swing at it with his right.

[BWFC_Insane]

He's pretty much the same height as Kevin Keegan, and he did alright out of it. Clough's problem is that he always needs a controlling touch. The higher up the leagues you go the less of an opportunity you get to take that touch. It's why nobody ever came in for Andy Walker. And that is an actual fact.

You mean before he shoots? If so it isn't something I've actively noticed, but now you mention it.....

Hmmm.

Yes, exactly that.

I'm going to look out for that. I guess you are right, I don't remember him hitting many first time, ala Klasnic, who is one of the best I've seen at that on his day.

I was at work before so hadn't time to expand, but I will now

At the time Walker was playing for us I played for a side, for whom, one of my team-mates was the son of Wanderers' chief scout at the time. For reasons I can't remember he ended up driving a few of us to an away game one Saturday so we got stuck into him re-Walker who was absolutely on fire at the time. "So, who's in for Walker"? "When's he off to United"? "How much will we get for him"? That sort of thing. Our mate's dad told us "Nobody's in for Walker, and he will never play Premier League football", to which we obviously accused him of talking shite and so on, and the reason he gave was the one I gave above re Clough. It's something I've looked out for ever since.
He was spot on. Despite Walker's career being basically ruined by that tw*t from Swansea, if you look back at Walker's goals from the 92/93 season (happy to loan you the DVD) nearly all of Walker's goals involve him first controlling the ball, picking his spot and then finishing - something that he did to devastating effect of course.
So yeah, it's something I look out for in all forwards. As you say, Klasnic was magnificent at finishing with his first touch, as was Anelka and so on, but it sets them apart. Clough's still young and may well develop, I hope he does, of course. Gary Lineker, by his own admission, was shit at football, but attacked the ball in the 6 yard box and finished everything with a single touch.

Have that DVD already

It isn't something I've noticed with Clough, but I guess thinking about it, I don't remember many instinctive first time finishes. To be fair to him, its not that easy from the left hand side. But in addition to perhaps finishing I think a player with Clough's ability should be attacking the penalty area with ball at feet more. It frustrates me how often he has a chance to take the ball into the box where the defender cannot foul him but instead turns round and passes backwards. Perhaps Parky can work on that with him.

[TANGODANCER]

Backing up current comments, one thing relevant today is the lighter balls allow hitting across them and curling shots that never happened in the past. I've noticed a few goals lately in TV football where good strikers don't wait for a "ready, aim, fire" situation or try to line a shot up but just bend them in unexpected directions right off. First time I actually ever saw this wasn't recently; it was in a night match cup round against Arsenal at Burnden back in the dark ages. Ian Wright was runnning across the face of our goal from the left with everybody expecting a right foot shot. Instead he flicked it with his left and wrong-footed everybody. Fortunately, it landed on top of the net and not in it. Good strikers are nearly always the fast-reaction hungry ones whose sole aim is the net. The Gary Linnekar comment proves this well.

[TonyDomingos]

Given that this thread is going to struggle for proper transfer news, I'll help it along with this otherwise inconsequential snippet from the BN:

The club has also confirmed the arrival of former Northampton Town and Stockport County winger Ali Gibb as their new senior academy physiotherapist. The 40-year-old had been working with Shrewsbury Town.

[Bruce Rioja]

Given that this thread is going to struggle for proper transfer news, I'll help it along with this otherwise inconsequential snippet from the BN:

The club has also confirmed the arrival of former Northampton Town and Stockport County winger Ali Gibb as their new senior academy physiotherapist. The 40-year-old had been working with Shrewsbury Town.

Purple Ali?

[malcd1]

We have a Monaco forward joining us for a trial (confirmed by Lee Anderson - Quote - "he's in on trial. Nothing more. Starts tomorrow").

http://sportwitness.co.uk/france-bolton ... l-decided/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trying to return to the Championship after last season’s dire campaign, Bolton Wanderers are attempting to bolster their frontline this January, according to FootMercato.

The French website published an article on Wednesday claiming Bolton are currently in talks with Monaco to try and bring one of their reserves, Quentin N’Gakoutou, to the Macron Stadium.

The 22-year-old striker, who has spent time on loan with Evian and AC Arles Avignon in Ligue 2 in the past, has been a part of the principality club since 2009, and his ability to also play on the right should help Phil Parkinson add some versatility and depth to his Bolton side, currently third in League One, two points behind second placed Scunthorpe, but with a game in hand.

As for the nature of the deal, FootMercato claim that part is still being worked out by all the parties involved, meaning Bolton could end up with either a loan or a full transfer.

N’Gakoutou, who is the older brother Monaco U19 defender Yannis N’Gakoutou, has represented France at U16 and U17 level, but is eligible to play internationally for the Central African Republic as he was born there.