Mark Came up top: Swindon (H) Sat 14 Jan 3pm

[StaffsTrotter]

fine margins as one mr O Coyle used to say.
1st half was a bit meh - albeit we dominated possession (but not really in a goals gonna come in a minute)
2nd - fantastic goal by wheater - our best bit of play for 20-25 mins, should have had at least one more. Last 20 mins they came back into it and it became end to end. Thought they played the counterattack v well, good movement and pace, at same time the space they were given was criminal.

There is truth in what PT says - we are stodgy, frequently lack pace and movement and therefore dont move the ball or opposition with zip - far too many times the sideways or backward pass kills any momentum. Having said that we are doing OK results wise from the style we've adopted - just think we always likely to suffer like today becuase we dont score enough goals and our games are always tight.

As regards cloughy - he has skill, but to me is lightweight & not particularly quick. More importantly I wish he just had more of an edge - just seems too soft to me

by some, Marcos Alonso was too lightweight, not quick enough and to error prone! lad scored twice today against the champs!

who said that then - isnt he over 6 foot. from my memory he was v attack minded and it was the defensive part of his game that was suspect. his time in italy has probably helped in the defensive bit and I guess he's not being defensively tested as much as he was with us. I will admit I'm surprised he's where he is, but good luck to him

my observations on clough are simply based on watching him - how often does he hold off the defender, how often does he give a defender a hard time, how often does he try and win it back, if he's been dispossessed and the ball still within 5 yards of him. Fully accept that as a forward that these things might not need to be in his game, but then the question is 'what other things is he doing as his contribution ?'

[Bruce Rioja]

So what exactly are you saying P.T, that we should automatically win every match or we're rubbish?

That appears to be the nub of it.

[Bruce Rioja]

So what exactly are you saying P.T, that we should automatically win every match or we're rubbish? All the teams in this league are there for a reason, the reason that they're generally no better, no worse than us. We're a game behind, third in the league and still in the cup and we lost one today from, as someone else said, because of a desire to win it, not a couldn't care less attitude. I find your attitude odd to say the least, but hey, I wasn't there, so mine is just an opinion.

We weren't at our best, but it's not like we were terrible. Ultimately we easily could and should have won it.

They did trouble us on the break last 20 minutes though.

And that's the top and bottom of it. Worst player on the field by a country mile by the way, once again, was Madine. That he was stood 16 yards out waiting for some sort of miraculous pull back when Wilson, at speed, curled a superb cross around the back of their left back, a cross which any forward worth his salt would have anticipated and busted his bollocks to have got on the end of absolutely typified this complete and utter oxygen thief.

[BWFC_Insane]

So what exactly are you saying P.T, that we should automatically win every match or we're rubbish? All the teams in this league are there for a reason, the reason that they're generally no better, no worse than us. We're a game behind, third in the league and still in the cup and we lost one today from, as someone else said, because of a desire to win it, not a couldn't care less attitude. I find your attitude odd to say the least, but hey, I wasn't there, so mine is just an opinion.

We weren't at our best, but it's not like we were terrible. Ultimately we easily could and should have won it.

They did trouble us on the break last 20 minutes though.

And that's the top and bottom of it. Worst player on the field by a country mile by the way, once again, was Madine. That he was stood 16 yards out waiting for some sort of miraculous pull back when Wilson, at speed, curled a superb cross around the back of their left back, a cross which any forward worth his salt would have anticipated and busted his bollocks to have got on the end of absolutely typified this complete and utter oxygen thief.

Aye he was wank today. Though I thought Spearing was worse. He had a real howler. Which is out of character for him.

[Tombwfc]

They didn't look like a team who are struggling, so maybe the loan players have done the trick for them.

That being said, throwing in a stinker like today has become a regular occurance, and it's why we can reel off 10+ home wins and still end up adrift of the automatic spots. You just can't do this as often as we have done and expect to keep pace with two good teams in Sheff Utd and Scunthorpe.

Swindon weren't even particularly negative today, but their diamond clogged up the space up for Clough and Henry to come inside. Once you've stopped that, we don't have many other ways to beat teams. Plan B is bringing on an inferior version of Clough and an abysmal version of Madine (who is shit himself, so fancy that).

Parky has done many things right, but dibble is right that the signings of Taylor/Proctor/Anderson are killing us. They contribute nothing, they're taking up spots on the squad and the manager has zero faith in them.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I'm sorry but I'm not having this, they've are 'so called' professional football players who have not played a game for 7 days - how can they be knackered FFS....its only a game of football and is the same for both sides - so are Swindon fitter than us then ?

You can be the fittest player to have ever walked the planet, but still need a break as the cumulative effect of playing at intensity for long periods gets everyone in the end. I only played football at school, but I did play basketball to a very high level. I had periods of going from star player to people questioning if I'd ever played the sport before. The intensity at which you play at the higher levels of sport is completely different to that you experience at the level most people have experienced playing sport. That's not to be condescending or dismissive to anyone, it's just a fact.

I once had a period of playing 2-3 matches a week for a couple of months and for the last couple of weeks of it I was a walking zombie on court. I couldn't shoot to my usual standard and I lost the edge that made me that little bit better than many of the players around me. I had little niggly injuries and just couldn't, as much as I tried, perform to the standards I'd set myself. The cure? 2 weeks training and only playing matches for the B team where the intensity was less. 4 weeks later I was playing the best basketball of my life and came within a whisker of lifting the national champions trophy.

Some of the players need a break and after one will come back stronger and ready to perform as you'd like them to. The problem is we don't have many alternatives to our key players/positions. Give them a break. Despite the embargo, no money, some average/poor players and starting the season on the back of a couple/decade of really dire seasons (on and off the pitch), it's remarkable we've turned it around as much as we have. If we can get promoted then great, if not we get to start with almost a clean slate squad wise. It'll still be tough, but at least most of the expensive wasters will be gone. It'll then be up to Ken to bring in some more Beevers and A. Taylors.

[Hoboh]

So what exactly are you saying P.T, that we should automatically win every match or we're rubbish? All the teams in this league are there for a reason, the reason that they're generally no better, no worse than us. We're a game behind, third in the league and still in the cup and we lost one today from, as someone else said, because of a desire to win it, not a couldn't care less attitude. I find your attitude odd to say the least, but hey, I wasn't there, so mine is just an opinion.

Tango I find you equally as odd believe me - you appear to live in an airy fairy everything is great land of Oz - in reality as an explanation, we are at home to a side 6th bottom of the league, not won a game in 10 - we have a mainly championship level side with the likes of Wheater, Beevers, Clough, Henry, Spearing, Vela etc (hindered by the likes of Madine admittedly !!) - we are 3rd from top - are we not expected to beat the likes of Swindon then...?

By the way the cup is nothing but a total distraction.....and are you saying that our team is no better than Swindon's so todays result is as expected then ?

Take issue with you there mate, saw Tango in half and you would see the club colours flowing out of him, he feels the pain of defeat every bit as much as you or anyone does, he's just a bit more laid back about it.
Me, this fitness thing seems to have gone on for donkeys or at least since BSA left when we could push far better teams near the end of a game, I just don't think we have the players now mostly journey men.

[twilight]

What an absolutely fantastic post from AT. I have to admit today that first half was horrible to watch. I said to Bijou I fell asleep for most of it. It lacked energy, zip, and a hunger to get at Swindon and we didnt look like a team fighting for automatic promotion. Beginning of the second half was better, but after our goal which was a peach from Wheater, I thought Swindon were the better team. AT though is correct and we should cut them some slack. Parkinson has to play the same players each week because we don't have players on the bench who can make any sort of impact.
The way we are playing it will probably be the play offs, and I don't think we will get promotion looking at the other bunch in there (imo) hope I'm wrong

[BWFC_Insane]

They didn't look like a team who are struggling, so maybe the loan players have done the trick for them.

That being said, throwing in a stinker like today has become a regular occurance, and it's why we can reel off 10+ home wins and still end up adrift of the automatic spots. You just can't do this as often as we have done and expect to keep pace with two good teams in Sheff Utd and Scunthorpe.

Swindon weren't even particularly negative today, but their diamond clogged up the space up for Clough and Henry to come inside. Once you've stopped that, we don't have many other ways to beat teams. Plan B is bringing on an inferior version of Clough and an abysmal version of Madine (who is shit himself, so fancy that).

Parky has done many things right, but dibble is right that the signings of Taylor/Proctor/Anderson are killing us. They contribute nothing, they're taking up spots on the squad and the manager has zero faith in them.

I think it's the lack of goals throughout the side. If you don't play well but bag a couple in you are ok usually. If we don't play well generally we struggle. And I think not playing well will happen. But because there aren't any natural goal scorers or many if any goals from midfield regularly it always puts pressure on the whole performance.

[officer_dibble]

Theres a lack of width as well. Henry and Clough naturally come inside, so block that avenue and we're short on ideas.

I think he has to start Taylor midweek - in the vain hope that we can play him into some form. Not that I'm hopeful!

[Prufrock]

Not sure I agree we don't have goals from midfield. Clough and Vela are knocking about at 1/4ish which are good returns from those positions and you'd expect them to get double figures. Think there are goals in Henry too. That useless stump up top is the problem.

I'd start Clayton up top on Tuesday. There's enough about him physically not to be bullied and he'd add movement, energy and stretch teams in behind. He can't be worse than the other two.

[BWFC_Insane]

Not sure I agree we don't have goals from midfield. Clough and Vela are knocking about at 1/4ish which are good returns from those positions and you'd expect them to get double figures. Think there are goals in Henry too. That useless stump up top is the problem.

I'd start Clayton up top on Tuesday. There's enough about him physically not to be bullied and he'd add movement, energy and stretch teams in behind. He can't be worse than the other two.

Vela has scored some spectacular goals. I still don't think you'd put him down for lots.

Clough, take away penalties and how many has he scored? I also wouldn't say Clough plays in midfield.

Vela, Spearing and Thorpe. Not enough goals between them. Especially when as you say we don't have a prolific striker.

Clough is wasteful in general in his play. Got a lot of ball yesterday second half especially, and did nowt with it. I think the issue of lacking width is true.

We don't have a plan to score goals when teams stop Clough or Henry cutting in.

[Harry Genshaw]

Madine is bloody awful facing the goal but I thought his hold up play and lay offs were great yesterday. At 80 minutes he looked dead on his feet and I was calling for him to be replaced by Procter but then he still did 3 great lay offs putting others into dangerous positions.

Reminds me of the Reeves, Philliskirk days where one was a lazy arse but deadly in the box. The other worked like a trojan but couldn't hit a barn door. You don't get the complete package at this level

[TANGODANCER]

Not sure I agree we don't have goals from midfield. Clough and Vela are knocking about at 1/4ish which are good returns from those positions and you'd expect them to get double figures. Think there are goals in Henry too. That useless stump up top is the problem.

I'd start Clayton up top on Tuesday. There's enough about him physically not to be bullied and he'd add movement, energy and stretch teams in behind. He can't be worse than the other two.

Vela has scored some spectacular goals. I still don't think you'd put him down for lots.

Clough, take away penalties and how many has he scored? I also wouldn't say Clough plays in midfield.

Vela, Spearing and Thorpe. Not enough goals between them. Especially when as you say we don't have a prolific striker.

Clough is wasteful in general in his play. Got a lot of ball yesterday second half especially, and did nowt with it. I think the issue of lacking width is true.

We don't have a plan to score goals when teams stop Clough or Henry cutting in.

Meanwhile, back at the Bernabeu....

[BWFC_Insane]

Madine is bloody awful facing the goal but I thought his hold up play and lay offs were great yesterday. At 80 minutes he looked dead on his feet and I was calling for him to be replaced by Procter but then he still did 3 great lay offs putting others into dangerous positions.

Reminds me of the Reeves, Philliskirk days where one was a lazy arse but deadly in the box. The other worked like a trojan but couldn't hit a barn door. You don't get the complete package at this level

Aye. Most of our play goes through Madine. We literally have nobody else who can do the job he does. Ultimately, the three behind him need to score. He gets judged on goals, but ultimately someone needs to do the job of winning the headers, fighting the centre halves and scraping for everything up there. If we can find better than Madine who can do that then great. But until then.....we haven't got anyone else. Clayton looked like a lost puppy yesterday. We got a lot worse when he came on.

I honestly think Ameobi was key for us. We were shite before he found his feet. Then looked great. Since he's gone...we certainly look far less balanced.

[BWFC_Insane]

Not sure I agree we don't have goals from midfield. Clough and Vela are knocking about at 1/4ish which are good returns from those positions and you'd expect them to get double figures. Think there are goals in Henry too. That useless stump up top is the problem.

I'd start Clayton up top on Tuesday. There's enough about him physically not to be bullied and he'd add movement, energy and stretch teams in behind. He can't be worse than the other two.

Vela has scored some spectacular goals. I still don't think you'd put him down for lots.

Clough, take away penalties and how many has he scored? I also wouldn't say Clough plays in midfield.

Vela, Spearing and Thorpe. Not enough goals between them. Especially when as you say we don't have a prolific striker.

Clough is wasteful in general in his play. Got a lot of ball yesterday second half especially, and did nowt with it. I think the issue of lacking width is true.

We don't have a plan to score goals when teams stop Clough or Henry cutting in.

Meanwhile, back at the Bernabeu....

My point is just that you cannot blame one player. As a team we don't have enough people who will reach double figures. Or a striker who will bag 25. I mean that is the situation and why I think we struggle every so often.

[TANGODANCER]

My point is just that you cannot blame one player. As a team we don't have enough people who will reach double figures. Or a striker who will bag 25. I mean that is the situation and why I think we struggle every so often.

Oh, right,welcome to third class of a world of perfect football where the only divine presence has pound note signs in front of it: Chelsea, (Da Costa can't stand English football anymore), Arsenal, (whose turn to whine this week about x grand per week not being their true value) Liverpool (they're exempt from criticism because Stevie Gerard once played for them and the whole world hates them anyway) United who have Jose Maurinho as manager so a divine right to win everything, West Ham whose star international garlic bread specialist has gone on a personal strike and thinks he's worth more than 125 grand a match.....

Meanwhile, back in downtown Bolton, a Division One club, broke enough not to be able to guarantee staff wages, embargoed, turning half the stand lights off to save electricity, and still managing to be upbeat and third in their league, they have the audacity to lose a game......Damn it sir, that's utterly insupportable...completely intolerable...

[BWFC_Insane]

My point is just that you cannot blame one player. As a team we don't have enough people who will reach double figures. Or a striker who will bag 25. I mean that is the situation and why I think we struggle every so often.

Oh, right,welcome to third class of a world of perfect football where the only divine presence has pound note signs in front of it: Chelsea, (Da Costa can't stand English football anymore), Arsenal, (whose turn to whine this week about x grand per week not being their true value) Liverpool (they're exempt from criticism because Stevie Gerard once played for them and the whole world hates them anyway) United who have Jose Maurinho as manager so a divine right to win everything, West Ham whose star international garlic bread specialist has gone on a personal strike and thinks he's worth more than 125 grand a match.....

Meanwhile, back in downtown Bolton, a Division One club, broke enough not to be able to guarantee staff wages, embargoed, turning half the stand lights off to save electricity, and still managing to be upbeat and third in their league, they have the audacity to lose a game......Damn it sir, that's utterly insupportable...completely intolerable...

Do you have a default answer that you just churn out without reading what people are actually saying?

I agree that we won't win every week. I agree that the posts from PT are a total overreaction.

My point is that our rivals for automatic promotion all seem to have more regular goals in them than we do. And that is our weakness. We have a great back four, but if our standards slip in any game ever so slightly we get punished. Whereas if you don't play well but bang a couple in, you often get the points or at least a share. Not a criticism, just an observation. There probably is little we can do about it.

[TANGODANCER]

What I'm answering my friend with my "default answer", is that for all our faults we are third in our division, just six points behind the league leaders and five points behind second with a game in hand and twenty games or so left. I don't answer for what people are saying, that's their privelege, I do like facts though, they usually tell it as it is.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

What I'm answering my friend with my "default answer", is that for all our faults we are third in our division, just six points behind the league leaders and five points behind second with a game in hand and twenty games or so left. I don't answer for what people are saying, that's their privelege, I do like facts though, they usually tell it as it is.

In case you've missed the events of the last year Tango...

Facts have no place in debate these days, and for goodness sake do not, whatever you do don't mention experts