Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

[TANGODANCER]

If we don't score at either Millwall or Sheff Weds, it'd make it 1 goal in 3 months? That's an insane record that's impossible to defend.

It won 't be the first time we haven't been able to buy a goal Jugs. As you say, inane.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I find this a particularly futile version of the "should the manager be sacked" argument.

It's got all the classic ingredients, appalling current results, previous success, extraneous factors and the old "who else would you get?" chestnut.

You have to be a moron to think he's done a bad job. And it's also clearly going very badly indeed right now. So they only people with listening to are either arguing that it's a tough gig and in the circumstances you can't do any more with the players he's got, or, it's a tough gig but in the circumstances someone else might be able to do better.

There's not really a lot to get hold of on either view.

Some of us were arguing he wasn't the best choice just days after he took over from Lennon.
Some of us from before he was even appointed said that Lennon was a nutter who shouldn't be employed per se.
And yet some of us even said that Freedman was a weird self serving wanker with fxck all credentials.
In fact some of us have said, since the first moment Big Sam went: What The Fxck!
Now, the point is, and it's a bleedin Huge Point, we need a manager with a plan to stabilise us. Coyle, Freedman, Lennon, and Parkinson were all failures. It's not a valid argument that changing the latest incompetent tit might lead to just another in a line of incompetent tits and therefore we shouldn't contemplate doing so. The executive should ensure that management is competent. Unfortunately in all walks of life, executives and managers are more often than not inferior to the task at hand. But, as a fan, a customer, and an employee, I think it only right that I can point this out...

[Harry Genshaw]

Just under three years ago, swan-diving under a clearly dispirited Lennon, the consensus was that change couldn't make us any worse. And then it did.

Can't agree with you here DSB. At the end of Freedmans reign we were heading towards relegation at a pace. Lennon, however briefly, gave the side fresh impetus when he came in and we stayed up quite easily that first year.

Obviously it was only a season's reprieve and I'm glad he was gone by the time relegation was confirmed.

With respect Harry I think you've misread me (because/or I've not been clear enough). I meant the end, not the start, of Lennon's reign. "Jiminho couldn't do any worse" - the results were 0-6, 0-1, 1-3, 1-4, 1-2, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0, 0-1.

"And worse I may be yet. The worst is not
So long as we can say 'This is the worst.'" - Edgar, King Lear

Ah. Apologies. I'd forgotten just how many games Jimmys caretaker stint went on for.

That temporary appointment aside I think the point still stands - we have benefited from new manager bounce each time we've appointed a new permanent boss. Not for very long in some cases and not without stopping the overall post Allardyce slump.

[BWFC_Insane]

I find this a particularly futile version of the "should the manager be sacked" argument.

It's got all the classic ingredients, appalling current results, previous success, extraneous factors and the old "who else would you get?" chestnut.

You have to be a moron to think he's done a bad job. And it's also clearly going very badly indeed right now. So they only people with listening to are either arguing that it's a tough gig and in the circumstances you can't do any more with the players he's got, or, it's a tough gig but in the circumstances someone else might be able to do better.

There's not really a lot to get hold of on either view.

Some of us were arguing he wasn't the best choice just days after he took over from Lennon.
Some of us from before he was even appointed said that Lennon was a nutter who shouldn't be employed per se.
And yet some of us even said that Freedman was a weird self serving wanker with fxck all credentials.
In fact some of us have said, since the first moment Big Sam went: What The Fxck!
Now, the point is, and it's a bleedin Huge Point, we need a manager with a plan to stabilise us. Coyle, Freedman, Lennon, and Parkinson were all failures. It's not a valid argument that changing the latest incompetent tit might lead to just another in a line of incompetent tits and therefore we shouldn't contemplate doing so. The executive should ensure that management is competent. Unfortunately in all walks of life, executives and managers are more often than not inferior to the task at hand. But, as a fan, a customer, and an employee, I think it only right that I can point this out...

What we need above all else is investment in the squad. Without it the rest is futile.

[Tombwfc]

Just under three years ago, swan-diving under a clearly dispirited Lennon, the consensus was that change couldn't make us any worse. And then it did.

Can't agree with you here DSB. At the end of Freedmans reign we were heading towards relegation at a pace. Lennon, however briefly, gave the side fresh impetus when he came in and we stayed up quite easily that first year.

Obviously it was only a season's reprieve and I'm glad he was gone by the time relegation was confirmed.

With respect Harry I think you've misread me (because/or I've not been clear enough). I meant the end, not the start, of Lennon's reign. "Jiminho couldn't do any worse" - the results were 0-6, 0-1, 1-3, 1-4, 1-2, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0, 0-1.

"And worse I may be yet. The worst is not
So long as we can say 'This is the worst.'" - Edgar, King Lear

At that point we were bottom of the league, 11 points from safety with nine games to play. And the relationship between the manager and pretty much everyone was toxic. Jimmy might not have done any better (although arguably not regularly getting pissed in Fanny's and starting fights with the centre forward is some form of better), but he definitely didn't do any worse.

Anyway, as an update from someone who wanted rid when this thread first started - I'd still persevere. I've seen enough this season to believe that there is potential in this team, and if we continue to get the ball to Oztumer and Ameobi (as we did in spells during the second half yesterday), good things will happen. We didn't look that far off yesterday.

But, he's got to start Doidge against Millwall. When nobody is scoring, playing a 34-year-old journeyman (who I don't dislike) over an up and coming goalscorer, who we paid money for and presumably have under contract for several years to come is madness. Good, bad or indifferent he needs a run of games.

[officer_dibble]

Parkinson’s been far from a failure.

Lucky, perhaps in some respects (burton will think so). But he has had it hard off the field and he has galvanised spirit remarkably well.

Unfortunately there is only so long you can put up with “Bolton Wanderers nil” every Saturday; even if we get a point or whatever at Millwall he’s only ever one game away from breaking the wrong kind of records for me. Time to go.

Lowest scorers in the leagues, most games losing without scoring, longest run without a win at the start of the season...let’s try and attract a better manager while there is still a chance. We might well have the worst squad of players in the league, let’s give someone else a go - we’ll definitely go down under this regime. Let’s try and stay up under another.

[nelson66]

I've changed my vote......from keep to sack
Simple reason being that what he is doing right now isn't working and he doesn't appear to be doing anything to change it,,,,,swapping one shite player for another isn't changing anything.... but a change of ethos (maybe a bit more attack attack attack) is definitely needed
He ain't going to change..... so we need to change him

[Jugs]

Just under three years ago, swan-diving under a clearly dispirited Lennon, the consensus was that change couldn't make us any worse. And then it did.

Can't agree with you here DSB. At the end of Freedmans reign we were heading towards relegation at a pace. Lennon, however briefly, gave the side fresh impetus when he came in and we stayed up quite easily that first year.

Obviously it was only a season's reprieve and I'm glad he was gone by the time relegation was confirmed.

With respect Harry I think you've misread me (because/or I've not been clear enough). I meant the end, not the start, of Lennon's reign. "Jiminho couldn't do any worse" - the results were 0-6, 0-1, 1-3, 1-4, 1-2, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0, 0-1.

"And worse I may be yet. The worst is not
So long as we can say 'This is the worst.'" - Edgar, King Lear

At that point we were bottom of the league, 11 points from safety with nine games to play. And the relationship between the manager and pretty much everyone was toxic. Jimmy might not have done any better (although arguably not regularly getting pissed in Fanny's and starting fights with the centre forward is some form of better), but he definitely didn't do any worse.

Anyway, as an update from someone who wanted rid when this thread first started - I'd still persevere. I've seen enough this season to believe that there is potential in this team, and if we continue to get the ball to Oztumer and Ameobi (as we did in spells during the second half yesterday), good things will happen. We didn't look that far off yesterday.

But, he's got to start Doidge against Millwall. When nobody is scoring, playing a 34-year-old journeyman (who I don't dislike) over an up and coming goalscorer, who we paid money for and presumably have under contract for several years to come is madness. Good, bad or indifferent he needs a run of games.

I concur.

[BWFC_Insane]

Just under three years ago, swan-diving under a clearly dispirited Lennon, the consensus was that change couldn't make us any worse. And then it did.

Can't agree with you here DSB. At the end of Freedmans reign we were heading towards relegation at a pace. Lennon, however briefly, gave the side fresh impetus when he came in and we stayed up quite easily that first year.

Obviously it was only a season's reprieve and I'm glad he was gone by the time relegation was confirmed.

With respect Harry I think you've misread me (because/or I've not been clear enough). I meant the end, not the start, of Lennon's reign. "Jiminho couldn't do any worse" - the results were 0-6, 0-1, 1-3, 1-4, 1-2, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0, 0-1.

"And worse I may be yet. The worst is not
So long as we can say 'This is the worst.'" - Edgar, King Lear

At that point we were bottom of the league, 11 points from safety with nine games to play. And the relationship between the manager and pretty much everyone was toxic. Jimmy might not have done any better (although arguably not regularly getting pissed in Fanny's and starting fights with the centre forward is some form of better), but he definitely didn't do any worse.

Anyway, as an update from someone who wanted rid when this thread first started - I'd still persevere. I've seen enough this season to believe that there is potential in this team, and if we continue to get the ball to Oztumer and Ameobi (as we did in spells during the second half yesterday), good things will happen. We didn't look that far off yesterday.

But, he's got to start Doidge against Millwall. When nobody is scoring, playing a 34-year-old journeyman (who I don't dislike) over an up and coming goalscorer, who we paid money for and presumably have under contract for several years to come is madness. Good, bad or indifferent he needs a run of games.

Doidge needs a partner. Good luck fitting him and Oz and Ameobi into any system. Doidge is nowhere near playing up front on his own in this league.

[Prufrock]

There's no way we binned off ALF to sign a league 2 striker who also needs a partner. And Parky has referred to Doige as being maybe too similar to Magennis to play them together (JM having played plenty up top on his own).

I'm far from convinced from the bits I've seen that Doige is up to it, but if he is going to make it's likely on his own.

[TANGODANCER]

I'm maybe going to ruffle a few feathers here, but how many of you have ever managed even a team of eight-year-olds? What, none? Yet you can tell an experienced and well paid football manager of many years experience how to run a team and who he should and shouldn't play?

We're losing games mainly because the other teams in this league are currently a goal or two better than us, mainly due to a lack of confidence in us, but equally because they're financially able to buy a bit better quality. That's the fault mainly of the owner, not the manager. The same owner is the one saying the manager's job is safe while paying himself good wages and making it appear he's blameless in it all. Not for me he isn't. If you take responsibility on you carry it, not appoint delegators to carry the cans. Our situation could easily change with just a couple or three of wins and everything in the garden would be lovely. If that happened, most fair-minded supporters would probably not mention the manager, so why howl for his head now? We are what we are as a club, not what we used to be, those days are gone. A bit of support for the manager and seen by the players might just do a bit more good than complaining about the weather. "Notes from a small green field" are not making good reading, and K.A is no Bill Bryson. We need to get a grip.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm maybe going to ruffle a few feathers here, but how many of you have ever managed even a team of eight-year-olds? What, none? Yet you can tell an experienced and well paid football manager of many years experience how to run a team and who he should and shouldn't play?

We're losing games mainly because the other teams in this league are currently a goal or two better than us, mainly due to a lack of confidence in us, but equally because they're financially able to buy a bit better quality. That's the fault mainly of the owner, not the manager. The same owner is the one saying the manager's job is safe while paying himself good wages and making it appear he's blameless in it all. Not for me he isn't. If you take responsibility on you carry it, not appoint delegators to carry the cans. Our situation could easily change with just a couple or three of wins and everything in the garden would be lovely. If that happened, most fair-minded supporters would probably not mention the manager, so why howl for his head now? We are what we are as a club, not what we used to be, those days are gone. A bit of support for the manager and seen by the players might just do a bit more good than complaining about the weather. "Notes from a small green field" are not making good reading, and K.A is no Bill Bryson. We need to get a grip.

Entirely agree TD. I mean not necessarily entirely about Ken - he has never said he had money to invest. But he's made the job as difficult as possible.

The fact is people are moaning as though this has been a continuous slump - the last two seasons ended with celebratory pitch invasions - people seem to forget that. And those successes were against all the odds. Coming up was a huge achievement - staying up miraculous. The current form is a huge issue and I'm sure every fan whether they rate Parky or not is wondering what a change in manager might bring.

But Parky is the only manager since Big Sam to improve our position season on season. For that I think one should be very careful of "change because it can't get any worse". It can, and our seasons prior to Parky were testament to that. There are not many good managers out there. Very, very few. Its why Parky is one of the longest serving ones in this league. Because clubs chop and change and cannot find a manager to take them forward. The chances of us landing a blow without any money and still behind the scenes chaos are incredibly low. So we'd be looking for a short term fix (which may or may not be possible) then be back here again in 18 months time. Perhaps that is the right thing to do, but I'm far from convinced by any argument yet.

[Peter Thompson]

So lets just carry on then eh....losing every game, not scoring, getting relegated....just because you don't know who would come in and do anything better.

To be honest no one new could do anything worse than is happening now....we will not get anything from the next 3 or 4 games, and will be cast adrift at the bottom of the league if the chairman doesn't act now, its just delaying the inevitable.

Good leaders make decisions, however tough (although this one is straightforward, Parkinson has no track record of any success at championship level and is totally out of his depth - we cant attack or defend)…if Anderson doesn't sack him this week we will be relegated because the BWFC ship with captain Parkinson steering it, is sinking fast.

No one can even see where the next goal is coming from, never mind the next point....but its ok lets leave everything as it is - just ignore it, bury heads in the sand, put fingers in ears, cross fingers etc....the argument by a few for keeping Parkinson is so fecking futile it beggars belief

[Jugs]

Just under three years ago, swan-diving under a clearly dispirited Lennon, the consensus was that change couldn't make us any worse. And then it did.

Can't agree with you here DSB. At the end of Freedmans reign we were heading towards relegation at a pace. Lennon, however briefly, gave the side fresh impetus when he came in and we stayed up quite easily that first year.

Obviously it was only a season's reprieve and I'm glad he was gone by the time relegation was confirmed.

With respect Harry I think you've misread me (because/or I've not been clear enough). I meant the end, not the start, of Lennon's reign. "Jiminho couldn't do any worse" - the results were 0-6, 0-1, 1-3, 1-4, 1-2, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0, 0-1.

"And worse I may be yet. The worst is not
So long as we can say 'This is the worst.'" - Edgar, King Lear

At that point we were bottom of the league, 11 points from safety with nine games to play. And the relationship between the manager and pretty much everyone was toxic. Jimmy might not have done any better (although arguably not regularly getting pissed in Fanny's and starting fights with the centre forward is some form of better), but he definitely didn't do any worse.

Anyway, as an update from someone who wanted rid when this thread first started - I'd still persevere. I've seen enough this season to believe that there is potential in this team, and if we continue to get the ball to Oztumer and Ameobi (as we did in spells during the second half yesterday), good things will happen. We didn't look that far off yesterday.

But, he's got to start Doidge against Millwall. When nobody is scoring, playing a 34-year-old journeyman (who I don't dislike) over an up and coming goalscorer, who we paid money for and presumably have under contract for several years to come is madness. Good, bad or indifferent he needs a run of games.

Doidge needs a partner. Good luck fitting him and Oz and Ameobi into any system. Doidge is nowhere near playing up front on his own in this league.

Those are problems that PP himself has to resolve. He's paid a lot of cash for a striker (for us) and we need goals. Now's the time to figure out how to use Doidge.

[BWFC_Insane]

So lets just carry on then eh....losing every game, not scoring, getting relegated....just because you don't know who would come in and do anything better.

To be honest no one new could do anything worse than is happening now....we will not get anything from the next 3 or 4 games, and will be cast adrift at the bottom of the league if the chairman doesn't act now, its just delaying the inevitable.

Good leaders make decisions, however tough (although this one is straightforward, Parkinson has no track record of any success at championship level and is totally out of his depth - we cant attack or defend)…if Anderson doesn't sack him this week we will be relegated because the BWFC ship with captain Parkinson steering it, is sinking fast.

No one can even see where the next goal is coming from, never mind the next point....but its ok lets leave everything as it is - just ignore it, bury heads in the sand, put fingers in ears, cross fingers etc....the argument by a few for keeping Parkinson is so fecking futile it beggars belief

What if we change and it stays the same. And then the new manager isn't any good at getting us out of league one? And we slip further? What then?

You've wanted every single manager out since even the last few years of Big Sam. I ask you a simple question - in the long run has that approach changed anything for the better? We ended up in league one.

[Peter Thompson]

Most managers have a preferable style of play and over a period of time bring in players best suited to that system....therefore before signing Doidge Parkinson should have known how to use him, otherwise he shouldn't have signed him.

However, Parkinson still prefers the square pegs in round holes approach, bingo machine method of football management....tactically he doesn't know his arse from his elbow. We cant score a goal for toffee and he keeps the 2 strikers who we actually paid money for on the bench as well as our best centre half....Parkinson = Mike Bassett

[Peter Thompson]

So lets just carry on then eh....losing every game, not scoring, getting relegated....just because you don't know who would come in and do anything better.

To be honest no one new could do anything worse than is happening now....we will not get anything from the next 3 or 4 games, and will be cast adrift at the bottom of the league if the chairman doesn't act now, its just delaying the inevitable.

Good leaders make decisions, however tough (although this one is straightforward, Parkinson has no track record of any success at championship level and is totally out of his depth - we cant attack or defend)…if Anderson doesn't sack him this week we will be relegated because the BWFC ship with captain Parkinson steering it, is sinking fast.

No one can even see where the next goal is coming from, never mind the next point....but its ok lets leave everything as it is - just ignore it, bury heads in the sand, put fingers in ears, cross fingers etc....the argument by a few for keeping Parkinson is so fecking futile it beggars belief

What if we change and it stays the same. And then the new manager isn't any good at getting us out of league one? And we slip further? What then?

You've wanted every single manager out since even the last few years of Big Sam. I ask you a simple question - in the long run has that approach changed anything for the better? We ended up in league one.

And that's exactly where we are going back to with this clown, League 1....but do carry on, one day you'll take your head out of your arse and see what most other fans can see.

[BWFC_Insane]

So lets just carry on then eh....losing every game, not scoring, getting relegated....just because you don't know who would come in and do anything better.

To be honest no one new could do anything worse than is happening now....we will not get anything from the next 3 or 4 games, and will be cast adrift at the bottom of the league if the chairman doesn't act now, its just delaying the inevitable.

Good leaders make decisions, however tough (although this one is straightforward, Parkinson has no track record of any success at championship level and is totally out of his depth - we cant attack or defend)…if Anderson doesn't sack him this week we will be relegated because the BWFC ship with captain Parkinson steering it, is sinking fast.

No one can even see where the next goal is coming from, never mind the next point....but its ok lets leave everything as it is - just ignore it, bury heads in the sand, put fingers in ears, cross fingers etc....the argument by a few for keeping Parkinson is so fecking futile it beggars belief

What if we change and it stays the same. And then the new manager isn't any good at getting us out of league one? And we slip further? What then?

You've wanted every single manager out since even the last few years of Big Sam. I ask you a simple question - in the long run has that approach changed anything for the better? We ended up in league one.

And that's exactly where we are going back to with this clown, League 1....but do carry on, one day you'll take your head out of your arse and see what most other fans can see.

He came in and we were in league one. He got us out of it. And kept us up.

What I'm asking is a simple question. You've wanted every manager out for a variety of reasons - mainly due to poor form - like now. However, my question is, has our changing of managers ever actually improved things? From Sam to Sammy to Gary to Owen to Dougie to Neil....every single manager took us further down the league than the previous one eventually. So changing managers didn't stop the slide. Why would this time be different to those 5 occasions when you demanded a manager be sacked?

[Peter Thompson]

So lets keep him because he's a decent League 1 manager....which is basically what you are saying is it not, and after all it is his true level because he's certainly not good enough to manage in the championship.

On your other point, you are correct I have wanted the other managers out but I've certainly not been alone on that. We have to try something and hope that eventually we unearth a diamond, otherwise what's the point carrying on being shite season after season and just accepting it....the fans need hope, something to cling on to, otherwise why turn up every week knowing that we'll lose, won't score and play shite football....the fans deserve better than that.

No one can guarantee that it would be different, but the chairman has to try something and quickly....the current apathy amongst the fans is quite alarming and will only get worse....Parkinson is turning them off in droves and it cant simply be allowed to continue.

[BWFC_Insane]

So lets keep him because he's a decent League 1 manager....which is basically what you are saying is it not, and after all it is his true level because he's certainly not good enough to manage in the championship.

On your other point, you are correct I have wanted the other managers out but I've certainly not been alone on that. We have to try something and hope that eventually we unearth a diamond, otherwise what's the point carrying on being shite season after season and just accepting it....the fans need hope, something to cling on to, otherwise why turn up every week knowing that we'll lose, won't score and play shite football....the fans deserve better than that.

No one can guarantee that it would be different, but the chairman has to try something and quickly....the current apathy amongst the fans is quite alarming and will only get worse....Parkinson is turning them off in droves and it cant simply be allowed to continue.

That's a reasonable post. I'm not saying things aren't grim. I'm not even saying I'm not tempted by the idea that a new manager might inject a short term fix. However, I'm looking at the situation - we're losing games because we aren't scoring at all. Few managers come into to those situations and turn them round quickly - at least that is my perception. Were it a case of general disorganisation or players not liking the manager then I think there is a more of a clear case. But the difference is sticking the ball in the net when we get a chance vs not doing it. And personally I don't think there is a lot of scope in the squad to significantly alter how we play. So we'll still need to be organised and start taking our chances. I'm unconvinced a manager comes in and changes that in the short term and we're not at the "long term building" stage given the general turbulence around the club.

I'm fascinated to see how someone else would do. Perhaps Parky really is "holding them back". I do not ultimately suspect that will be the case. As we've seen with our other sackings and appointments. You can argue that they were the wrong choices but that only shows that finding a good manager is highly unlikely in our position. So we'd at best be hoping for an incremental improvement and short term lift. The problem with that is often when that subsides you end up worse off than you were - as we can show in the last 10 years here.