Should Phil Parkinson be sacked?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

As for how little it would cost Ken, I would turn the microscope around into a telescope, and state that Ken would only entertain 'negative' or at best neutral outgoings on this score...

I've long said two things would make Ken turf Parky, on a risk/benefit analysis. One, if he thought Parky was more likely to take BWFC down (and/or not bring them back up) than an unprovable replacement. Two, if - in PR terms - throwing the boss under the bus might save his own ass. We seem to have accelerated way past the second possibility - if KA turfed PP now, it would probably only make him seem more ruthless/selfish - so it's just the first.

The fiscal cost of going down does seem like a potential trigger point for sacking the manager. As you (and others) say, Ken can't afford it - but at some point (presumably safely after the transfer window so the new guy can't ask for a War Chest) he may decide in desperation that it's worth a go. After all, it's not like we have an unimpeachable record on paying ex-employees, or for that matter current ones.

[nicholaldo]

I think what might also factor into his decision is that despite everything we're still only three points adrift. Granted, there's a bigger gap between us and fifth bottom, and also that three points is a lot when we win so rarely, but still. If that gap gets any bigger then he might feel forced into action.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

I'm sure David lee will be a better option than what PP currently offers, he can't be any worse. Keep PP in place with his strange team selections will surely end up with relegation.
So the solution is to keep PP and go down. I stull believe with someone else at the helm things will change. They still pay PP and his staff and they still pay David Lee, whats to lose?
I'm sure a change would be welcome by those fans. No matter who you ask PP is the problem.

Do you remember the fans baying for Mr positive Owen Coyle....look how bad that was.

The fact is that in the current situation with the squad we've got you can bring virtually any available manager in and it won't make a difference. It is incredibly naive to think it would. More naive however, to think you can promote Lee on his current salary whilst binning off Parky and his team. The real world simply doesn't work like that.

I think our squad is better than what PP is getting out of it, by quite a distance. There is no way this squad is a W2 D6 L16 squad with 12 goals scored over 24 games. To me PP has sadly proved this season that he can't work with higher level players. I gave him the benefit of the doubt last season as we had mostly L1 players.

However, I do think Ken can't afford to sack the whole management team, and we can't afford a manager who can do much better. Not sure a Phillips/Lee/Darby combo is the answer at all. It is getting to the point though where something has to give. PP might walk, he looks very dejected at the moment.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

As for how little it would cost Ken, I would turn the microscope around into a telescope, and state that Ken would only entertain 'negative' or at best neutral outgoings on this score...

I've long said two things would make Ken turf Parky, on a risk/benefit analysis. One, if he thought Parky was more likely to take BWFC down (and/or not bring them back up) than an unprovable replacement. Two, if - in PR terms - throwing the boss under the bus might save his own ass. We seem to have accelerated way past the second possibility - if KA turfed PP now, it would probably only make him seem more ruthless/selfish - so it's just the first.

The fiscal cost of going down does seem like a potential trigger point for sacking the manager. As you (and others) say, Ken can't afford it - but at some point (presumably safely after the transfer window so the new guy can't ask for a War Chest) he may decide in desperation that it's worth a go. After all, it's not like we have an unimpeachable record on paying ex-employees, or for that matter current ones.

I doubt that running out of money (on the basis of shaking the piggy bank and less pennies fall out than you'd kind of hoped would that particular day) so that you default on paying wages, and deliberately making a calculation to pay a years' salary on the basis that the next bod through the revolving door will be cheaper and/or deflect attention away from oneself, are of the same magnitude in Ken's mind. One is involuntary (as in forced), The other is completely voluntary (no matter how forced outsiders feel he should be to do it).
He's very Crowley, is our Ken: Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole of the Law!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I think what might also factor into his decision is that despite everything we're still only three points adrift. Granted, there's a bigger gap between us and fifth bottom, and also that three points is a lot when we win so rarely, but still. If that gap gets any bigger then he might feel forced into action.

^ see my answer to DSB above.

(PS the law in this case being neither civil nor criminal )

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm sure David lee will be a better option than what PP currently offers, he can't be any worse. Keep PP in place with his strange team selections will surely end up with relegation.
So the solution is to keep PP and go down. I stull believe with someone else at the helm things will change. They still pay PP and his staff and they still pay David Lee, whats to lose?
I'm sure a change would be welcome by those fans. No matter who you ask PP is the problem.

Do you remember the fans baying for Mr positive Owen Coyle....look how bad that was.

The fact is that in the current situation with the squad we've got you can bring virtually any available manager in and it won't make a difference. It is incredibly naive to think it would. More naive however, to think you can promote Lee on his current salary whilst binning off Parky and his team. The real world simply doesn't work like that.

I think our squad is better than what PP is getting out of it, by quite a distance. There is no way this squad is a W2 D6 L16 squad with 12 goals scored over 24 games. To me PP has sadly proved this season that he can't work with higher level players. I gave him the benefit of the doubt last season as we had mostly L1 players.

However, I do think Ken can't afford to sack the whole management team, and we can't afford a manager who can do much better. Not sure a Phillips/Lee/Darby combo is the answer at all. It is getting to the point though where something has to give. PP might walk, he looks very dejected at the moment.

Is it better than the results? Arguably yes. But I'd say its massively impacted upon by the situation at the club.

AND

Hull aside we aren't getting walloped week in week out. We are losing most games because the opposition take their one or two chances or are a bit sharper than we are in front of goal. I think it is often fairly fine margins. Which to me points to any new manager making only a minor difference at best.

Allardyce the best manager in modern times at turning teams round and escaping relegation said this week he wouldn't go to Huddersfield because "no matter what miracles I do that team doesn't have the goals in it to win games of football at premiership level. I can do a lot of things but I cannot fix that."

I'd argue we are exactly the same. No matter what system or shape you play there isn't enough goals in this team. We scraped, scraped safety last season and didn't score many. But we lost 10 goals from Madine and 10 from Le Fondre. That is -20 goals. To make up in a side that didn't score enough as it was. We've in no way replaced those goals when safety required not just replacing them but supplementing them.

Magennis is a league one striker and not prolific even at that level. Doidge a prolific league two player showed that the step up is far from easy in many cases and was at best going to get 3/4 league goals in a full season at this level. Donaldson is a willing runner but basically seems finished as a main striker now. Behind them the midfield is the same non-scoring lot we had last season. Can't see any scoring regularly at this level. Oztumer was the hope but he's proven way below the level required for serious championship football. You cannot take 20 goals out of an already struggling team and replace them easily. The hope was that Wildschutt/Oztumer and Ameobi back fit would be dynamic and get the goals from midfield with Magennis chipping in. It looked that way early doors but clearly that isn't happening now.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

As for how little it would cost Ken, I would turn the microscope around into a telescope, and state that Ken would only entertain 'negative' or at best neutral outgoings on this score...

I've long said two things would make Ken turf Parky, on a risk/benefit analysis. One, if he thought Parky was more likely to take BWFC down (and/or not bring them back up) than an unprovable replacement. Two, if - in PR terms - throwing the boss under the bus might save his own ass. We seem to have accelerated way past the second possibility - if KA turfed PP now, it would probably only make him seem more ruthless/selfish - so it's just the first.

The fiscal cost of going down does seem like a potential trigger point for sacking the manager. As you (and others) say, Ken can't afford it - but at some point (presumably safely after the transfer window so the new guy can't ask for a War Chest) he may decide in desperation that it's worth a go. After all, it's not like we have an unimpeachable record on paying ex-employees, or for that matter current ones.

I doubt that running out of money (on the basis of shaking the piggy bank and less pennies fall out than you'd kind of hoped would that particular day) so that you default on paying wages, and deliberately making a calculation to pay a years' salary on the basis that the next bod through the revolving door will be cheaper and/or deflect attention away from oneself, are of the same magnitude in Ken's mind. One is involuntary (as in forced), The other is completely voluntary (no matter how forced outsiders feel he should be to do it).
He's very Crowley, is our Ken: Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole of the Law!

...to expand slightly on that... I'm in no doubt Ken is of the opinion he can get a better manager who will save him money by avoiding relegation. I'm equally firm in my opinion he wouldn't fork out the necessary extra to grasp that opportunity.

[TANGODANCER]

^^
It's an opinion (mine) that K.A is only bothered about selling the club as a buy and sell at a profit deal. Well, at least that was the original plan, now he's being forced to feed the animal in captivity and is getting more desperate by the week as the animal starves. I have no faith in him as a supporter of Bolton Wanderwers and, should he sell, I doubt we'd ever see him again. He lives outside the U.K, never mind Bolton and that's very likely where he wants to be.

[Prufrock]

You're all wasting your time, again!

It's arguable this group of players is good enough to stay up and do better. It certainly seems stronger on paper, in the round, than the one that did last year.

It's also arguable that it isn't, that PP did a tremendous job last season that he's struggling to repeat (though by no means won't). We're 7 places below a side who have outspent the FFP limits by an amount roughly of a magnitude equal to our all time record signing as an established premier league team.

All comes down to what you think of the players. I happen to be in camp 2 (they aren't good enough and no surprise given our budget), but no-one is talking anyone round on something so subjective and untestable!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

...to expand slightly on that... I'm in no doubt Ken is of the opinion he can get a better manager who will save him money by avoiding relegation. I'm equally firm in my opinion he wouldn't fork out the necessary extra to grasp that opportunity.

All reasonable.

Part of me, though, thinks Ken knows he's on to a good thing with Parky, who has notably rarely complained about the strictures he's been under. Furthermore, on the flipside, he may well know where the bodies are buried.

[Jugs]

I'm sure David lee will be a better option than what PP currently offers, he can't be any worse. Keep PP in place with his strange team selections will surely end up with relegation.
So the solution is to keep PP and go down. I stull believe with someone else at the helm things will change. They still pay PP and his staff and they still pay David Lee, whats to lose?
I'm sure a change would be welcome by those fans. No matter who you ask PP is the problem.

Do you remember the fans baying for Mr positive Owen Coyle....look how bad that was.

The fact is that in the current situation with the squad we've got you can bring virtually any available manager in and it won't make a difference. It is incredibly naive to think it would. More naive however, to think you can promote Lee on his current salary whilst binning off Parky and his team. The real world simply doesn't work like that.

I think our squad is better than what PP is getting out of it, by quite a distance. There is no way this squad is a W2 D6 L16 squad with 12 goals scored over 24 games. To me PP has sadly proved this season that he can't work with higher level players. I gave him the benefit of the doubt last season as we had mostly L1 players.

However, I do think Ken can't afford to sack the whole management team, and we can't afford a manager who can do much better. Not sure a Phillips/Lee/Darby combo is the answer at all. It is getting to the point though where something has to give. PP might walk, he looks very dejected at the moment.

Is it better than the results? Arguably yes. But I'd say its massively impacted upon by the situation at the club.

AND

Hull aside we aren't getting walloped week in week out. We are losing most games because the opposition take their one or two chances or are a bit sharper than we are in front of goal. I think it is often fairly fine margins. Which to me points to any new manager making only a minor difference at best.

Allardyce the best manager in modern times at turning teams round and escaping relegation said this week he wouldn't go to Huddersfield because "no matter what miracles I do that team doesn't have the goals in it to win games of football at premiership level. I can do a lot of things but I cannot fix that."

I'd argue we are exactly the same. No matter what system or shape you play there isn't enough goals in this team. We scraped, scraped safety last season and didn't score many. But we lost 10 goals from Madine and 10 from Le Fondre. That is -20 goals. To make up in a side that didn't score enough as it was. We've in no way replaced those goals when safety required not just replacing them but supplementing them.

Magennis is a league one striker and not prolific even at that level. Doidge a prolific league two player showed that the step up is far from easy in many cases and was at best going to get 3/4 league goals in a full season at this level. Donaldson is a willing runner but basically seems finished as a main striker now. Behind them the midfield is the same non-scoring lot we had last season. Can't see any scoring regularly at this level. Oztumer was the hope but he's proven way below the level required for serious championship football. You cannot take 20 goals out of an already struggling team and replace them easily. The hope was that Wildschutt/Oztumer and Ameobi back fit would be dynamic and get the goals from midfield with Magennis chipping in. It looked that way early doors but clearly that isn't happening now.

Exactly what I said when ALF was released.

People are waking up to it now, but it's too late. There aren't enough goals in this team to keep us up.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Is it better than the results? Arguably yes. But I'd say its massively impacted upon by the situation at the club.

AND

Hull aside we aren't getting walloped week in week out. We are losing most games because the opposition take their one or two chances or are a bit sharper than we are in front of goal. I think it is often fairly fine margins. Which to me points to any new manager making only a minor difference at best.

Allardyce the best manager in modern times at turning teams round and escaping relegation said this week he wouldn't go to Huddersfield because "no matter what miracles I do that team doesn't have the goals in it to win games of football at premiership level. I can do a lot of things but I cannot fix that."

I'd argue we are exactly the same. No matter what system or shape you play there isn't enough goals in this team. We scraped, scraped safety last season and didn't score many. But we lost 10 goals from Madine and 10 from Le Fondre. That is -20 goals. To make up in a side that didn't score enough as it was. We've in no way replaced those goals when safety required not just replacing them but supplementing them.

Magennis is a league one striker and not prolific even at that level. Doidge a prolific league two player showed that the step up is far from easy in many cases and was at best going to get 3/4 league goals in a full season at this level. Donaldson is a willing runner but basically seems finished as a main striker now. Behind them the midfield is the same non-scoring lot we had last season. Can't see any scoring regularly at this level. Oztumer was the hope but he's proven way below the level required for serious championship football. You cannot take 20 goals out of an already struggling team and replace them easily. The hope was that Wildschutt/Oztumer and Ameobi back fit would be dynamic and get the goals from midfield with Magennis chipping in. It looked that way early doors but clearly that isn't happening now.

Yes we lack strikers. But so do many others. I mean look at the scoring record of Juke and Adams at Birmingham prior to the start of this season. Blackburn only have an ageing Danny Graham, and Alan Armstrong who scored 1 goal in half a season here last season. Rohterham and Ipswich are worse than us up front. There are others who don't have on paper prolific strikers. Looking further afield Roy Hodgson often doesn't play any strikers at all at Crystal Palace. Just because we don't have a Dwight Gayle up front doesn't or shoudn't mean we score 12 goals in 24 games. Managers used to managing better players devise systems to suit of the players they have. Ameobi is a talented player but spends most of his time on the edge of his own area defending.

To me, we started the season as a long ball team playing of Magennis, with Doidge and Donaldson intended to be backup target men, and then tried to morph into a team that passed it around more to accommodate Ozzy and now seem to be a team that run around a lot mostly trying to stop the opposition. During all this we have lost the source of most of our goals, set pieces. They have deteriorated to such a degree that we are more in danger of conceding from a counter-attack than we are of scoring. None of the transitions have worked, we are now a team without any identity and any way of scoring. All the attacking players have lost confidence. I really like Parky and wish it would all work out, but I am afraid much of that is down to him. He might well be working under terrible conditions and I am sure he spends as much time picking morale up off the floor as the more technical aspects, but his history backs up the theory that he has a L1 philosophy that doesn't translate upwards imho.

[truewhite15]

Why is it that so many people seem to think that playing 4-4-2 is this magical cure to our on-field ills?

Which two strikers are you playing? Which two do you honestly believe compliment each other well enough to score the necessary goals?

And with only two centre midfielders, what sort of hallucinogenics are folk taking when they think that that will be either solid enough to stop any and every opposition just waltzing through us, or creative enough to supply the ammunition for our now-miraculously-prolific two man attack?

I firmly believe that going 4-4-2 on a regular basis will be, basically, footballing suicide. It'd be Hull away every week.

[TANGODANCER]

Stick Oztumer up front off Magennis or Donaldson in a Kevin Keegan-John Toshack ot Kev Phillips - Nial Quinn sort of format. Not much to lose have we, we're losing every week anyway....

[BWFC_Insane]

Is it better than the results? Arguably yes. But I'd say its massively impacted upon by the situation at the club.

AND

Hull aside we aren't getting walloped week in week out. We are losing most games because the opposition take their one or two chances or are a bit sharper than we are in front of goal. I think it is often fairly fine margins. Which to me points to any new manager making only a minor difference at best.

Allardyce the best manager in modern times at turning teams round and escaping relegation said this week he wouldn't go to Huddersfield because "no matter what miracles I do that team doesn't have the goals in it to win games of football at premiership level. I can do a lot of things but I cannot fix that."

I'd argue we are exactly the same. No matter what system or shape you play there isn't enough goals in this team. We scraped, scraped safety last season and didn't score many. But we lost 10 goals from Madine and 10 from Le Fondre. That is -20 goals. To make up in a side that didn't score enough as it was. We've in no way replaced those goals when safety required not just replacing them but supplementing them.

Magennis is a league one striker and not prolific even at that level. Doidge a prolific league two player showed that the step up is far from easy in many cases and was at best going to get 3/4 league goals in a full season at this level. Donaldson is a willing runner but basically seems finished as a main striker now. Behind them the midfield is the same non-scoring lot we had last season. Can't see any scoring regularly at this level. Oztumer was the hope but he's proven way below the level required for serious championship football. You cannot take 20 goals out of an already struggling team and replace them easily. The hope was that Wildschutt/Oztumer and Ameobi back fit would be dynamic and get the goals from midfield with Magennis chipping in. It looked that way early doors but clearly that isn't happening now.

Yes we lack strikers. But so do many others. I mean look at the scoring record of Juke and Adams at Birmingham prior to the start of this season. Blackburn only have an ageing Danny Graham, and Alan Armstrong who scored 1 goal in half a season here last season. Rohterham and Ipswich are worse than us up front. There are others who don't have on paper prolific strikers. Looking further afield Roy Hodgson often doesn't play any strikers at all at Crystal Palace. Just because we don't have a Dwight Gayle up front doesn't or shoudn't mean we score 12 goals in 24 games. Managers used to managing better players devise systems to suit of the players they have. Ameobi is a talented player but spends most of his time on the edge of his own area defending.

To me, we started the season as a long ball team playing of Magennis, with Doidge and Donaldson intended to be backup target men, and then tried to morph into a team that passed it around more to accommodate Ozzy and now seem to be a team that run around a lot mostly trying to stop the opposition. During all this we have lost the source of most of our goals, set pieces. They have deteriorated to such a degree that we are more in danger of conceding from a counter-attack than we are of scoring. None of the transitions have worked, we are now a team without any identity and any way of scoring. All the attacking players have lost confidence. I really like Parky and wish it would all work out, but I am afraid much of that is down to him. He might well be working under terrible conditions and I am sure he spends as much time picking morale up off the floor as the more technical aspects, but his history backs up the theory that he has a L1 philosophy that doesn't translate upwards imho.

If you read my post it wasn't just we lack a "20 goal a season striker". It was we lack a striker capable of 10 goals. AND we have a midfield with hardly any goalscoring ability in it.

Blackburn a good point. Dack from midfield has 10. Graham up front has 9. Both have scored twice as many as our top scorer in the championship (Will Buckley with 4). You say Rotherham and Ipswich are "worse" but both have players who've reached 5 goals, in Rotherham's case 2 players.

You don't need to be a genius to see Hull's sudden form coincides with Bowen's golden streak of goals.

It is hard to see any player in our squad hitting double figures. The quality simply isn't there - couple that with morale clearly being rock bottom and we are where we are.

I do agree that trying to pander to fans who want football has cost us. But equally I think the fight has gone out of the whole place.

[BWFC_Insane]

Stick Oztumer up front off Magennis or Donaldson in a Kevin Keegan-John Toshack ot Kev Phillips - Nial Quinn sort of format. Not much to lose have we, we're losing every week anyway....

We've already tried that. It didn't work.

[Hoboh]

When you have a manager with the personality of a wet lettuce, having watched Parkinson interviews, the bloke you avoid at all costs in the bar, a man who cannot seem to motivate players to move with any sort of urgency and thinks strikers don't need specialise training 'cause he knows best, you wonder why you are deep in the sh*t.
Of course the plank must go, he should have gone ages ago, he's just lived up to his streaky reputation until now, he is about to run out of luck big time.

[TANGODANCER]

Stick Oztumer up front off Magennis or Donaldson in a Kevin Keegan-John Toshack ot Kev Phillips - Nial Quinn sort of format. Not much to lose have we, we're losing every week anyway....

We've already tried that. It didn't work.

We never try anything for more than five minutes. How many hours must David have spent practising slingshot to hit a guy between the eyes? That's our problem, patchwork. I know the reasons we struggle re quality etc, but as I said above, we're losing every game anyway, so why not persist a bit. I'm sure the players would benefit. It isn't our defence we need to look at. What did P.P say....."We do attack but we're not going to go gung ho!" I found that a bit hilarious to be honest. The one time we did we scored five!.

[BWFC_Insane]

Stick Oztumer up front off Magennis or Donaldson in a Kevin Keegan-John Toshack ot Kev Phillips - Nial Quinn sort of format. Not much to lose have we, we're losing every week anyway....

We've already tried that. It didn't work.

We never try anything for more than five minutes. How many hours must David have spent practising slingshot to hit a guy between the eyes? That's our problem, patchwork. I know the reasons we struggle re quality etc, but as I said above, we're losing every game anyway, so why not persist a bit. I'm sure the players would benefit. It isn't our defence we need to look at. What did P.P say....."We do attack but we're not going to go gung ho!" I found that a bit hilarious to be honest. The one time we did we scored five!.

The problem you have is persisting means keep trying the same things even when losing.

The most success we've had this season was Magennis up front on his own early days - but key personnel that worked in that system are either missing or off form.

I don't really like the constant tinkering from Parky - I do understand it to some extent. But I'd prefer a consistent shape and method and if the 11 don't do their jobs you can change them within that framework. I personally think even the greatest players in the world struggle when the system changes regularly.

[Jugs]

Oz and ALF would probably have worked well together. Or, Oz, ALF and even Armstrong, who's flourishing at Blackburn.

Oz and Magennis, however, are entirely unsuitable.