Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:49 am

View from the West Stand Upper:

QPR started the game well and created a couple of half chances and had the majority of the possession, but we created the better chances, with Armstrong going close twice, and then we scored from a corner, with Madine winning a good first downward header for Pratley to score with a low header. After that for the rest of the first half, there were few chances and it was even. QPR came out with more urgency at the start of the second half, but we nullified them quite well for 15-20 minutes, and Vela even had a half chance to make it 2-0. Then QPR completely dominated the game for 20 minutes and deservedly equalized with what looked a smart flick from a cross into the box. As storm Brian made it's considerable presence felt, the pitch became very difficult and we looked tired, and a draw was the best we were going to get. They couldn't create any more chances from their dominance of possession and so a draw it was.

Given the start we have had, we really need to get wins from these kind of games in theory, but in reality they played well and it might be a sign of our recent improvement we got a draw. Certainly the team of four weeks ago would've lost. It was clear they were superior in midfield, with Scowen in the deeper role and Freeman in the advanced role excellent, and our chance to win the game was to contain them with the running power of Henry, Pratley and Vela and be better in both boxes. It came close to working. Despite seeing little of the ball and having few chances, we had the clearer ones, and we limited them to a few half chances, and on another day we would've held on for a lucky 1-0.

For us Vela and Ameobi were our poorest players, possibly with the exception of substitute Noone who continues to look clueless on the left hand side. It was his poor clearance that led to the goal and he lost if a couple of other times too. Wheater and Beevers looked solid but their forwards weren't great so that has to be taken into account. Little seemed to lose concentration a couple of times but continues to look like he can handle most things at right back. Madine did ok with a couple of touches of real quality in the second half, and Armstrong had a good first half where he looked like he could score, before losing it a couple of times in decent positions in the second half before being taken off. Personally I would give Pratley our motm. He put himself about well in midfield without showing much quality on the ball and of course got the goal. Overall the conditions were terrible and made it very hard for anyone to show much quality on the ball, although it seemed to affect their midfielders less than ours.

Hard to make any big conclusions about the rest of our season from this game. I hope that Vela and Ameobi have got more fitness into their bodies and we can be competitive in some tough games coming up.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:35 am

Thanks for that B.W. It did sound as if our MO.T.M would be either Wheater or Beevers, but you saw the game so....I'm just glad we held out, but it does come across most games from all commen taries, reports and viewings that too much of games is played in our half. We need to change that, because it isn't a new thing and oppositions are managing to keep us out while putting us under constant pressure.
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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:09 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:35 am
Thanks for that B.W. It did sound as if our MO.T.M would be either Wheater or Beevers, but you saw the game so....I'm just glad we held out, but it does come across most games from all commen taries, reports and viewings that too much of games is played in our half. We need to change that, because it isn't a new thing and oppositions are managing to keep us out while putting us under constant pressure.
Pratley was very good. One of the centre halves probably deserve MotM but Pratters played well.

Agreed about playing out of our half. Trouble was that Ameobi had an off day and he's our best outlet. Plus we clearly tired and struggled to get up the pitch.

Basically our issue is still midfield. We are better there but most teams in this league are stronger in there than we are.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Athertonian » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:55 pm

Despite terrible weather conditions we have become too predictable. As much as Madine works hard he isn't scoring goals which as a centre forwards he's supposed to do. Time for a change because each game has become so laborious. About time Le Fondre started a game in an effort to try something different.
I was losing patience with Parkinson now I have lost it completely.
Simply not good enough from management to players.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:27 pm

Athertonian wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:55 pm

I was losing patience with Parkinson now I have lost it completely.
Simply not good enough from management to players.
I never had a Jaguar. I always desperately wanted one, but the reality was I could never afford one. I had a new B.M.W as a work's car for a couple of years and quite a few decent cars over the years, but I had to accept reality and be thankful for what I had . That's where Parky's at. Our problems aren't his fault or the players', but just a result of reality and history. We're still doing our best to be a Championship team with not much going for us. We just keep hoping our fortunes will improve.
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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Athertonian » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:45 pm

All we can do is hope. But, at least try something new, give Le Fondre a game at the expense of Madine because he wont score goals.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:05 pm

Athertonian wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:55 pm
Despite terrible weather conditions we have become too predictable. As much as Madine works hard he isn't scoring goals which as a centre forwards he's supposed to do. Time for a change because each game has become so laborious. About time Le Fondre started a game in an effort to try something different.
I was losing patience with Parkinson now I have lost it completely.
Simply not good enough from management to players.
Le Fondre can't do the job though. Madine is an outlet. Le Fondre is not. He can't play in a 4-5-1. End of. Cannot get through the work.

Madine is our only option up front.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:31 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:05 pm
Athertonian wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:55 pm
Despite terrible weather conditions we have become too predictable. As much as Madine works hard he isn't scoring goals which as a centre forwards he's supposed to do. Time for a change because each game has become so laborious. About time Le Fondre started a game in an effort to try something different.
I was losing patience with Parkinson now I have lost it completely.
Simply not good enough from management to players.
Le Fondre can't do the job though. Madine is an outlet. Le Fondre is not. He can't play in a 4-5-1. End of. Cannot get through the work.

Madine is our only option up front.
Unless we play differently. Is twatting it one up to the big fella the only option? I think not.
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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Athertonian » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 pm

If Madine's the only hope then we have none. Parkinson is as stubborn as a mule and needs to change it.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:51 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:05 pm
Athertonian wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:55 pm
Despite terrible weather conditions we have become too predictable. As much as Madine works hard he isn't scoring goals which as a centre forwards he's supposed to do. Time for a change because each game has become so laborious. About time Le Fondre started a game in an effort to try something different.
I was losing patience with Parkinson now I have lost it completely.
Simply not good enough from management to players.
Le Fondre can't do the job though. Madine is an outlet. Le Fondre is not. He can't play in a 4-5-1. End of. Cannot get through the work.

Madine is our only option up front.
Unless we play differently. Is twatting it one up to the big fella the only option? I think not.
We've had outlets out wide last two games. We still needed Madine up front. Being realistic the core of our team is Wheater, Beevers, Henry and Pratley. Do you really think we are suddenly going to be able to pass through sides?

Even if we could Le Fondre offers no real pace, no aerial threat and no real hold up play. He's a fox in the box. But isn't a lone striker however you set up to play.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:55 pm

Athertonian wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 pm
If Madine's the only hope then we have none. Parkinson is as stubborn as a mule and needs to change it.

What do you suggest that he does?
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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:10 pm

It's not like we're creating lots of chances for Madine to miss and that ALF would be burying. Madine for me is playing well this season and is largely doing what is asked of him. Another assist yesterday too.

We still look like relegation certs to me but these last few games we've looked more compact and more of a threat going forward. This isn't the time to change things around imo
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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:03 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:10 pm
It's not like we're creating lots of chances for Madine to miss and that ALF would be burying. Madine for me is playing well this season and is largely doing what is asked of him. Another assist yesterday too.

We still look like relegation certs to me but these last few games we've looked more compact and more of a threat going forward. This isn't the time to change things around imo

Exactly. We've just very nearly taken maximum points from our last two matches, and put in two of our better performances. No matter what other set up we might try, it's seems obvious to me that any alternative wouldn't worth bothering with if it doesn't at the very least involve playing with four at the back and with Vela in behind. That pretty much means that Le Fondre misses out. It's unfortunate for him, but it's just the way that it is. The shape that we're playing now gets more out of what we have than any other that I can think of.
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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Athertonian » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:09 pm

Nicko58 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:55 pm
Athertonian wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 pm
If Madine's the only hope then we have none. Parkinson is as stubborn as a mule and needs to change it.

What do you suggest that he does?
How many games does Parkinson need to realise his system isn't working. I have simply had enough of watching the same week in week out, not only at home but away also. What's the point of having Le Fondre (whom the fans went crazy to sign) if stubborn Parky wont play. It's crying out for change?

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:34 pm

Athertonian wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:09 pm
Nicko58 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:55 pm
Athertonian wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 pm
If Madine's the only hope then we have none. Parkinson is as stubborn as a mule and needs to change it.

What do you suggest that he does?
How many games does Parkinson need to realise his system isn't working. I have simply had enough of watching the same week in week out, not only at home but away also. What's the point of having Le Fondre (whom the fans went crazy to sign) if stubborn Parky wont play. It's crying out for change?

He's only been able to play his system for the last two matches, and in those two matches we've seen improvements, not just in points but also in performance. If there's a way to get Le Fondre into that starting eleven without weakening us then great, let's go for it, but I don't know how Parky can realistically fit him in. Perhaps you do?
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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by jetsetwilly » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:56 am

This formation is pointless. Madine wins the ball, and the nearest man to him is 50 meters away so it comes straight back. I'm glad those 2 stumps from West Ham have been dropped, but Armstrong still getting in the team baffles me. Not close to good enough for this level. His touch is very poor. Ameobi is a luxury in a winning team. In a team that needs to keep the ball more, he can't play. He really did not fancy being out there on Saturday. Strolling around the pitch and pulling out of tackles is not what we need.
I really can't see how we can stay up this year, but getting a manager in who has proven himself at this level would be worth a punt. Parky is just not tactically good enough at this level.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:48 am

jetsetwilly wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:56 am
This formation is pointless. Madine wins the ball, and the nearest man to him is 50 meters away so it comes straight back. I'm glad those 2 stumps from West Ham have been dropped, but Armstrong still getting in the team baffles me. Not close to good enough for this level. His touch is very poor. Ameobi is a luxury in a winning team. In a team that needs to keep the ball more, he can't play. He really did not fancy being out there on Saturday. Strolling around the pitch and pulling out of tackles is not what we need.
I really can't see how we can stay up this year, but getting a manager in who has proven himself at this level would be worth a punt. Parky is just not tactically good enough at this level.
Nonsense. He wasn't at his best Saturday, but far from alone in that. He works hard. Harder than any other winger we've got.

Last week he was a match winner and put in the best attacking display we've seen from any of our players this season. By a mile.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by boltonboris » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:56 am

He grafts like feck, Ameobi and it;s absolutely no coincidence that whenever he plays, people comment on how good our fullbacks look
"I've got the ball now. It's a bit worn, but I've got it"

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:06 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:56 am
He grafts like feck, Ameobi and it;s absolutely no coincidence that whenever he plays, people comment on how good our fullbacks look
Yep. He's very good defensively. Deceptively so.

The contrast between how he protected Little and how Armstrong left Taylor exposed is stark.

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Re: Jumping through hoops to whack the boys from the bush? - Bolton v QPR 21/10/217

Post by Prufrock » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:16 pm

I don't think it's particularly deceptive.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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