Release or retain?

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Who would you offer a contract for next season?

Poll ended at Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:32 pm

Mark Howard
3
1%
Ben Alnwick
38
9%
Mark Beevers
35
8%
David Wheater
37
9%
Dorian Dervite
15
4%
Jon Flanagan
26
6%
Derik Osede
9
2%
Karl Henry
35
8%
Darren Pratley
21
5%
Jan Kirchhoff
29
7%
Alex Perry
14
3%
Jem Karacan
17
4%
Jeff King
19
5%
Filipe Morais
34
8%
Chris Taylor
0
No votes
Sammy Ameobi
41
10%
Aaron Wilbraham
8
2%
Chinedu Obasi
8
2%
Connor Hall
28
7%
 
Total votes: 417

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed May 09, 2018 3:34 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 3:24 pm
The keeps list isn't in any order. Sammy would be pretty near the top of my keeps.

Beevers has struggled but I've said keep on the basis I'm assuming he's cheap and I think he'd be fine as back up. If they're good enough to be back up and will take those wages I'd keep them as something to be said for continuity when there's going to be hopefully a lot of changes. Which brings me to..

I thought I was being pretty magnanimous putting Darren so low down my list of those to kick out the door.

On one hand, there are going to be a lot of changes this summer, so i could maybe see the logic in a one year deal on 4th choice wages.

On the other hand I fecking hate him and can't wait until the useless bastard is out the door.

So it's tough.
He's been pretty integral to our success these past two seasons. He's not great, by any means. But he does put everything he's got into it. Unlike a few others....

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by truewhite15 » Wed May 09, 2018 3:46 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 3:34 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 3:24 pm
The keeps list isn't in any order. Sammy would be pretty near the top of my keeps.

Beevers has struggled but I've said keep on the basis I'm assuming he's cheap and I think he'd be fine as back up. If they're good enough to be back up and will take those wages I'd keep them as something to be said for continuity when there's going to be hopefully a lot of changes. Which brings me to..

I thought I was being pretty magnanimous putting Darren so low down my list of those to kick out the door.

On one hand, there are going to be a lot of changes this summer, so i could maybe see the logic in a one year deal on 4th choice wages.

On the other hand I fecking hate him and can't wait until the useless bastard is out the door.

So it's tough.
He's been pretty integral to our success these past two seasons. He's not great, by any means. But he does put everything he's got into it. Unlike a few others....
Integral is pushing it a bit, isn't it? He was out injured for a pretty large chunk of last season. He bumbles around the pitch, either going backwards, giving the ball away or committing fouls. He was naff when he arrived and he's gone backwards. No thanks.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed May 09, 2018 8:55 pm

throwawayboltonian wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 7:40 pm
Flanagan - started brightly but faded; contracted to Liverpool until 2019 I think? Maybe another loan?
I've read somewhere that the final year is optional, and I imagine Liverpool won't be taking it, given that after his assault conviction the club released the following statement:

“We condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the player’s actions during the events that took place resulting in this criminal conviction. It leaves his own reputation damaged and, through association, he has severely let down the club he had previously represented with distinction. We have expressed to him our disappointment and anger that he has failed to live up to the values of Liverpool Football Club, in this specific instance. The club has allowed the legal formalities to reach a conclusion before deciding on or implementing any internal disciplinary action. That internal process will now begin.”

That hardly sounds like they'e putting the kettle on. More of a bother might be his reported £25kpw salary.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by mullayo » Thu May 10, 2018 12:45 am

The problem, of course, is all the ones we want, other clubs will too.

Ameobi for me is a must.
Alnwick, Kirchoff and Beevers I'd keep.
I'd also ask for Antonee and Burke back on loan.
All the rest only if the come on cheaper contracts.
We have a core and it's time to fill the gaps with (at least attempted) upgrades.

K: Alnwick Ben Amos, Jake Turner,
RB:Mark Little, Stephen Darby,
LB: Antonee Andrew Taylor,
CB: David Wheater (option, Beevers, Burke
DM: Kirchoff
M: Josh Vela,
RW: Ameobi
LW:Will Buckley,
ST: Adam Le Fondre, Craig Noone
TS:
What could've happened; did.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 10, 2018 8:45 am

throwawayboltonian wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 7:40 pm
I'd hold onto:
  • Alnwick - stepped into #1 spot well
  • Beevers - disappointing season following last season's performances resulting in a few bids, hoping he'll adapt next season
  • Wheater - slow and clumsy but reasonably dependable
  • Perry - seems to have done OK in youth; good cheap cover
  • Karacan - squad player to replace aging Pratley/Henry
  • King - same as Perry
  • Morais - decent player; year deal due to age
  • Ameobi - blows hot and cold, but when he blows hot he is a game changer
  • Hall - following his performances in U23s I'll be so disappointed if he doesn't have a more senior role next season
Torn on:
  • Henry - decent DM/CM but age is catching up to him
  • Flanagan - started brightly but faded; contracted to Liverpool until 2019 I think? Maybe another loan?
  • Kirchhoff - always rated him but so injury prone; pay to play
  • Pratley - don't rate him but decent squad player if he has a reduced wage and role
  • Dervite - cover if we can't find another defender
The U23's is so far below championship level. David Lee says Hall is miles off being a championship player. So I trust Lee.

Hall will need a season on loan somewhere non-league or league 2 to gain some experience if he stays.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by palindromeofbolton » Tue May 15, 2018 10:06 am

Lee Anderson has Tweeted:
Keep your eyes on @OfficialBWFC today, plenty of your questions to me answered over there throughout the day
Most likely to be a couple of new contract announcements rather than new signings or investors. Alnwick I'd have thought, while Iles mentioned a new Ameobi deal trying to be done too...

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue May 15, 2018 10:07 am

Worth a couple of minutes to read Marc Iles' BN piece this morning.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... Wanderers/

Parky:
We’ve had a week to reflect on the achievement of staying in the Championship but now we’ve got to get back to work. Regardless of what is going on, I’ve got a job to do. So I have been in touch with players’ agents at the end of last week, and that will continue. Then I’ll sit down with a few individuals at the end of this week.

I think it’s fair to say there’s an unusual number of players out of contract this summer, so we have got a lot on our plate. There is a lot of work to be done, so we can’t really sit back and waste time, especially with the World Cup and a shorter window.
Iles says that "Parkinson will again look to sit down and speak with every player before a retained list is announced." This is to be respected – it was notable that immediately upon getting the job two summers ago he spoke individually with every single player, including the youth teamers who were getting released. Not every manager would do that.

But regardless of takeover possibilities, we do have to make decisions this week: under EFL regulations we have to tell players by this Saturday whether they're released or retained. If we wish to retain them we have to offer them a contract to sign.

So even though Iles says "It is understood Wanderers owner and chairman Ken Anderson is currently in negotiation with more than one foreign-based investor, which has rendered it difficult to give cast iron assurances to Parkinson or his staff over their immediate futures," Ken can't sit on his hands forever – unless he's happy to risk letting them go free while we see what happens.

That would obviously be a high-risk policy and Iles notes that Alnwick "has already held talks and said last month he was 'looking to get it done quickly'," while "initial discussions have also taken place with Sammy Ameobi".

Things will have to happen this week, on that front at least. The same also applies to all other Football League clubs except those in the play-offs, who get extensions for obvious reasons. Dunno about Premier League.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue May 15, 2018 10:10 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:07 am
Worth a couple of minutes to read Marc Iles' BN piece this morning.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... Wanderers/

Parky:
We’ve had a week to reflect on the achievement of staying in the Championship but now we’ve got to get back to work. Regardless of what is going on, I’ve got a job to do. So I have been in touch with players’ agents at the end of last week, and that will continue. Then I’ll sit down with a few individuals at the end of this week.

I think it’s fair to say there’s an unusual number of players out of contract this summer, so we have got a lot on our plate. There is a lot of work to be done, so we can’t really sit back and waste time, especially with the World Cup and a shorter window.
Iles says that "Parkinson will again look to sit down and speak with every player before a retained list is announced." This is to be respected – it was notable that immediately upon getting the job two summers ago he spoke individually with every single player, including the youth teamers who were getting released. Not every manager would do that.

But regardless of takeover possibilities, we do have to make decisions this week: under EFL regulations we have to tell players by this Saturday whether they're released or retained. If we wish to retain them we have to offer them a contract to sign.

So even though Iles says "It is understood Wanderers owner and chairman Ken Anderson is currently in negotiation with more than one foreign-based investor, which has rendered it difficult to give cast iron assurances to Parkinson or his staff over their immediate futures," Ken can't sit on his hands forever – unless he's happy to risk letting them go free while we see what happens.

That would obviously be a high-risk policy and Iles notes that Alnwick "has already held talks and said last month he was 'looking to get it done quickly'," while "initial discussions have also taken place with Sammy Ameobi".

Things will have to happen this week, on that front at least. The same also applies to all other Football League clubs except those in the play-offs, who get extensions for obvious reasons. Dunno about Premier League.
Retained released list - you only have to announce those definitely released. Rest you can list as "being offered new deals". There is no rush to do those deals - other than the risk of the players going elsewhere.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue May 15, 2018 10:24 am

Which is kind of what I said. But you do have to offer them contracts (which they don't have to sign). You can't say "we'll offer you a contract in a minute, let me find a pen" then leg it for a month. That would technically be restraint of trade; this legislation is a direct descendant of the retain-and-transfer system which allowed clubs to bind players beyond their contract, and which George Eastham successfully overturned in the 1950s.

Semantically speaking it's more of a "release or intend-to-retain" list but that's not as snappy. :D

The main point is we have to decide this week who we want; the matter of whether they want to sign that contract or haggle for more comes later (but not much later).

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue May 15, 2018 10:30 am

palindromeofbolton wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:06 am
Lee Anderson has Tweeted:
Keep your eyes on @OfficialBWFC today, plenty of your questions to me answered over there throughout the day
Most likely to be a couple of new contract announcements rather than new signings or investors. Alnwick I'd have thought, while Iles mentioned a new Ameobi deal trying to be done too...
If there is a statement made today it will mean we either aren't getting investment or KA will just say "we're in talks".

Won't be more than that.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue May 15, 2018 10:57 am

To me, "throughout" the day implies more than one statement. But then I guess I'm more careful about English than Lee, which is fine, it's my job to be (and not particularly his).

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue May 15, 2018 11:04 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:57 am
To me, "throughout" the day implies more than one statement. But then I guess I'm more careful about English than Lee, which is fine, it's my job to be (and not particularly his).
I imagine -

Retained release list
Statement from Ken (we're well overdue) denying the talk of imminent investment or simply stating he's in talks
Season ticket details

All 3 things seem imminent.

EDIT: Literally 2 minutes after I posted that...

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2018/may/no ... -campaign/

BINGO.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue May 15, 2018 11:11 am

Heh!

For reference, here's last year's:
https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/may/wa ... ip-return/

Actually more details here: https://www.bwfc.co.uk/siteassets/docum ... 7-2018.pdf)

I've started a new thread for ST chat: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26796

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu May 24, 2018 1:39 pm

BREAKING NEWS: SEVEN RELEASED

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2018/may/wa ... n-players/
Bolton Wanderers have today confirmed that seven players will not be offered new deals when their current contracts end on Saturday 30 June.

Derik Osede, Dorian Dervite, Chris Taylor, Jem Karacan, Mark Howard, Jan Kirchhoff and Chinedu Obasi have all been informed by manager Phil Parkinson that they are free to look elsewhere once their contracts end at Macron Stadium.

With the majority of the squad on overseas holidays, further meetings with the remaining out-of-contract players will take place in the next seven to 10 days.

Parkinson said: “I would like to thank the players for their contributions to Bolton Wanderers Football Club and wish them well for the future.”
Despite the third-paragraph caveat, that implies contracts will be or have been offered to Ben Alnwick, Mark Beevers, David Wheater, Karl Henry, Darren Pratley, Filipe Morais, Sammy Ameobi... and Aaron Wilbraham (possibly also Alex Perry, Jeff King and Connor Hall, although they may be dealt with separately)

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by palindromeofbolton » Thu May 24, 2018 2:19 pm

No huge surprises seeing those seven go, though I'd personally have liked to have seen us take a gamble on Kirchhoff.

Perhaps a bit surprised Wilberforce isn't on that initial list (as you say, implies he's been offered "something").

Pratley probably the most Marmite of players who's not straight out the door but, as has already been mentioned, you have to work on the basis he's been offered greatly reduced terms.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu May 24, 2018 2:30 pm

palindromeofbolton wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:19 pm
No huge surprises seeing those seven go, though I'd personally have liked to have seen us take a gamble on Kirchhoff.

Perhaps a bit surprised Wilberforce isn't on that initial list (as you say, implies he's been offered "something").

Pratley probably the most Marmite of players who's not straight out the door but, as has already been mentioned, you have to work on the basis he's been offered greatly reduced terms.
Or he's on holiday. PP likes to do these things face-to-face, which is to his credit.

Pratley's a very Parky player - hard-working, uncomplaining (well, apart from under Jiminho), runs forever. But, y'know, 33 and not very good. I'm not sure I'd even be offering him a wage at the top of our structure, wherever that ceiling now lies.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 24, 2018 2:36 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:30 pm
palindromeofbolton wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:19 pm
No huge surprises seeing those seven go, though I'd personally have liked to have seen us take a gamble on Kirchhoff.

Perhaps a bit surprised Wilberforce isn't on that initial list (as you say, implies he's been offered "something").

Pratley probably the most Marmite of players who's not straight out the door but, as has already been mentioned, you have to work on the basis he's been offered greatly reduced terms.
Or he's on holiday. PP likes to do these things face-to-face, which is to his credit.

Pratley's a very Parky player - hard-working, uncomplaining (well, apart from under Jiminho), runs forever. But, y'know, 33 and not very good. I'm not sure I'd even be offering him a wage at the top of our structure, wherever that ceiling now lies.
Yep, Iles writes in the BN that this isn't the complete released list. Just those that Parky has spoken to thus far. I'd suggest there may be more. This is a good sign as it looks like we can believe we will recruit better. Dervite and the like staying would have been a bad sign to me.

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Peter Thompson » Thu May 24, 2018 2:46 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:39 pm
BREAKING NEWS: SEVEN RELEASED

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2018/may/wa ... n-players/
Bolton Wanderers have today confirmed that seven players will not be offered new deals when their current contracts end on Saturday 30 June.

Derik Osede, Dorian Dervite, Chris Taylor, Jem Karacan, Mark Howard, Jan Kirchhoff and Chinedu Obasi have all been informed by manager Phil Parkinson that they are free to look elsewhere once their contracts end at Macron Stadium.

With the majority of the squad on overseas holidays, further meetings with the remaining out-of-contract players will take place in the next seven to 10 days.

Parkinson said: “I would like to thank the players for their contributions to Bolton Wanderers Football Club and wish them well for the future.”
Despite the third-paragraph caveat, that implies contracts will be or have been offered to Ben Alnwick, Mark Beevers, David Wheater, Karl Henry, Darren Pratley, Filipe Morais, Sammy Ameobi... and Aaron Wilbraham (possibly also Alex Perry, Jeff King and Connor Hall, although they may be dealt with separately)
I think that there will be others who will be released who haven't been named today, I'd be absolutely amazed if he offers new contracts to all of those not named today. Surely he won't offer Wilbraham (39 in Oct) & Henry (36 in Nov) contracts.

I'd like to think that he would also bin Pratley and spend his salary on a younger better midfield player - someone who could actually tackle & pass a ball

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu May 24, 2018 2:48 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:36 pm
This is a good sign as it looks like we can believe we will recruit better. Dervite and the like staying would have been a bad sign to me.
Yeah, I agree. And what's more, it's not just a good sign in that we think we can improve: it's a good sign that PP might not necessarily be over-loyal. I felt he had been a bit that way last summer (although due to embargo it turned out we needed most of the re-signed players to some extent or other) so it's good to know he's not afraid of cutting adrift players he thinks he can improve on, even if he signed them. Like Howard: wonder if he's going to try to trade up or trust in Jake Turner?

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Re: Release or retain?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu May 24, 2018 3:05 pm

A little disappointed and equally as surprised to see Kirchhoff's name on there. Clearly a very decent player if kept fit. Can one of you remind me who Chinedu Obasi is please?

As for Pratters, given the way he applauded three sides of the ground as he made his way off against Forest, I assumed from that that his departure must have all been done and dusted. Seemingly not. Drastically reduced wages, maybe?
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