MATCH THREAD: Into the great unknown. Bristol City (H) -11th Aug, 2018

[GhostoftheBok]

In regards to messing it up if we try to play out from the back - that is a very sad refection on our managers ability to coach and also our players ability is it not....I'm sure that most of the players who we brought in this summer played out from the back at times at their previous clubs....so even with these new better quality players we now have we still have to hoof it all the time, is that what you are saying ?

We don't seem to coach midfield movement, or if we do it doesn't go across. What new better quality players do we have at the back? Olkowski is the only new player of the back 5 and he's at fullback. Adding one player isn't going to change what Wheater and Beevers can and cannot do. Unless we have a midfielder who is comfortable dropping in and offering very simple balls (could be Murphy, I don't know yet) then playing out through that centre back pairing isn't happening.

Parky plays percentages football and sometimes it's dire; but overall he's done well here and we've started with decent results. I don't think the changes you mentioned would have stopped us falling asleep on our own corner and getting smashed.

The percentage game, without Ameobi, Ozzy and Wildschut, was to spoil the game and wait for them to make errors. Percentage football is always tight, but even not playing too well we nearly beat them. Would I like us to play more football? Of course I would. Do I imagine that's going to happen with this squad when we have a couple of key players out? feck all chance.

[BWFC_Insane]

To play that poorly and get 2 goals and a draw is either the sign of a good side or a fecking lucky one. I'll let you lot decide which you think we are.

Played poorly? Nonsense. Bristol were a good side and played well. We shouldn’t have conceded that second on the break, that was shocking. But we were organised and kept our shape and stuck to a gameplan.

Was a good performance where we nearly managed to beat a better side.

Need to see it again but Parky's saying that Wheater was 'pole-axed' as they broke out of their box. The way I saw it was that Wheats went to ground under no pressure looking to blag a free-kick 20 yards out. We didn't get it, they broke at a blistering pace, the ball bounced over the right-back's head, we were all over the place at the back and their lad finished nicely. Parky also reckons that their first was offside - I have no opinion on that though as I didn't have an appropriate view.

Photos on twitter look like he was offside unless Taylor was playing him on. He is out of shot.

Not sure on the Wheater foul, that referee gave us nothing. Didn’t look like loads in it to me, but I guess you usually get those.

Should Wheater even be up for a corner when we are 2-1 up with 10 to go? Debatable.

[BWFC_Insane]

In regards to messing it up if we try to play out from the back - that is a very sad refection on our managers ability to coach and also our players ability is it not....I'm sure that most of the players who we brought in this summer played out from the back at times at their previous clubs....so even with these new better quality players we now have we still have to hoof it all the time, is that what you are saying ?

We don't seem to coach midfield movement, or if we do it doesn't go across. What new better quality players do we have at the back? Olkowski is the only new player of the back 5 and he's at fullback. Adding one player isn't going to change what Wheater and Beevers can and cannot do. Unless we have a midfielder who is comfortable dropping in and offering very simple balls (could be Murphy, I don't know yet) then playing out through that centre back pairing isn't happening.

Parky plays percentages football and sometimes it's dire; but overall he's done well here and we've started with decent results. I don't think the changes you mentioned would have stopped us falling asleep on our own corner and getting smashed.

The percentage game, without Ameobi, Ozzy and Wildschut, was to spoil the game and wait for them to make errors. Percentage football is always tight, but even not playing too well we nearly beat them. Would I like us to play more football? Of course I would. Do I imagine that's going to happen with this squad when we have a couple of key players out? feck all chance.

Agree with this. We play a way to get results. We’ve recruited seemingly into that plan. We aren’t going to start knocking it out from the back. We look more capable of playing the percentages this year. Hopefully. Though we are reliant on luck with injuries.

This could be a Sam Allardyce side at this level. It’s very, very similar.

[Peter Thompson]

To play that poorly and get 2 goals and a draw is either the sign of a good side or a fecking lucky one. I'll let you lot decide which you think we are.

Played poorly? Nonsense. Bristol were a good side and played well. We shouldn’t have conceded that second on the break, that was shocking. But we were organised and kept our shape and stuck to a gameplan.

Was a good performance where we nearly managed to beat a better side.

Need to see it again but Parky's saying that Wheater was 'pole-axed' as they broke out of their box. The way I saw it was that Wheats went to ground under no pressure looking to blag a free-kick 20 yards out. We didn't get it, they broke at a blistering pace, the ball bounced over the right-back's head, we were all over the place at the back and their lad finished nicely. Parky also reckons that their first was offside - I have no opinion on that though as I didn't have an appropriate view.

I was almost in line with it, and it did look a few yards offside....but it could also have been good work /a well timed run from Wiemann who was outstanding throughout. Compared to our static players their passing & movement at times was excellent all over the pitch - but up front they got through and behond us both centrally & wide on numerous occasions.

I seriously started to think during the game are they really that good or are we allowing them to be....because they did pass it around at times like Barcelona and we had no answer, even their defenders generally managed to win the 50/50's and seemed to have an age on the ball....we just sat back and watched and let them play through us time and time again....I thought our midfield all game was very poor, lacking energy and got outmuscled....they lost a lot of the 50/50'.

[DJBlu]

To play that poorly and get 2 goals and a draw is either the sign of a good side or a fecking lucky one. I'll let you lot decide which you think we are.

Played poorly? Nonsense. Bristol were a good side and played well. We shouldn’t have conceded that second on the break, that was shocking. But we were organised and kept our shape and stuck to a gameplan.

Was a good performance where we nearly managed to beat a better side.

Need to see it again but Parky's saying that Wheater was 'pole-axed' as they broke out of their box. The way I saw it was that Wheats went to ground under no pressure looking to blag a free-kick 20 yards out. We didn't get it, they broke at a blistering pace, the ball bounced over the right-back's head, we were all over the place at the back and their lad finished nicely. Parky also reckons that their first was offside - I have no opinion on that though as I didn't have an appropriate view.

IMG_20180811_200755.jpg (92.26 KiB) Viewed 3567 times

Can't see Taylor so can't be 100% certain. The commentator was saying the linesman was 3 or 4 yards behind the line.

[Bijou Bob]

And another thing.......£3.10 for a fecking pie??!

I had our kid's ST today, but cheapest ticket for the match today was £28 I think. In order to pick it up, Ken is now expecting me to queue for over an hour. Given that with fuel, parking, a pint and a butty, I'd have no change from 50 quid, he's not exactly making it an easy choice to turn up and watch. Today's attendance will be fudged with ST numbers, but I'd be amazed if there were actually more than 12000 there today.

[Peter Thompson]

And another thing.......£3.10 for a fecking pie??!

I had our kid's ST today, but cheapest ticket for the match today was £28 I think. In order to pick it up, Ken is now expecting me to queue for over an hour. Given that with fuel, parking, a pint and a butty, I'd have no change from 50 quid, he's not exactly making it an easy choice to turn up and watch. Today's attendance will be fudged with ST numbers, but I'd be amazed if there were actually more than 12000 there today.

Yes I paid £66.00 for 2 tickets today....the 'value for money' is poor, but I thought the crowd looked to be around 14,000.

Its ok Ken Anderson wanting better crowds, but the product on display on the pitch needs to be much better....that 1st half today was dire, absolutely boring as fcuk, as bad as anything in recent years....

As I've said a point was decent today against a very good team and 4 points from 2 games is more than anyone could have imagined....but at times we do play horrible, boring football creating next to fcuk all, 2 shots on target in 90 mins at home....and that won't get people wanting season tickets & paying £30 odd quid a ticket will it.

Parkinson's style of football may keep us up for a few seasons which is good enough for most regulars who go to games (the 12k-14k), but if KA wants better attendances (as he's said in his interviews today) he needs to do 2 things.

1. Tell Parkinson to play better - less boring football, at least at home....at least look like you want to attack and get more than 3 players over the half way line....nothing in that 1st half today got anyone off their seat, it looked like the players had been told to sit back and not concede.
2. Lower the matchday prices, the prices today for a game against Bristol City were way too high.

[GhostoftheBok]

1. Tell Parkinson to play better - less boring football, at least at home....at least look like you want to attack and get more than 3 players over the half way line....nothing in that 1st half today got anyone off their seat, it looked like the players had been told to sit back and not concede.
2. Lower the matchday prices, the prices today for a game against Bristol City were way too high.

Chicken and egg, though. If we want to stay up and play decent stuff, we need a better squad with more pace and creativity. In order to get that, we need to invest. In order to invest, we need to sell more tickets. In order to sell more tickets, we need to play decent stuff and stay up...

The only other way is to slowly, painfully slowly, build a squad and push up the table whilst gradually evolving the football on the pitch.

If PP were managing any other club we'd all be looking on in admiration at what he has achieved, given the constraints. Then again, we'd not have to watch the football.

[Peter Thompson]

1. Tell Parkinson to play better - less boring football, at least at home....at least look like you want to attack and get more than 3 players over the half way line....nothing in that 1st half today got anyone off their seat, it looked like the players had been told to sit back and not concede.
2. Lower the matchday prices, the prices today for a game against Bristol City were way too high.

Chicken and egg, though. If we want to stay up and play decent stuff, we need a better squad with more pace and creativity. In order to get that, we need to invest. In order to invest, we need to sell more tickets. In order to sell more tickets, we need to play decent stuff and stay up...

The only other way is to slowly, painfully slowly, build a squad and push up the table whilst gradually evolving the football on the pitch.

If PP were managing any other club we'd all be looking on in admiration at what he has achieved, given the constraints. Then again, we'd not have to watch the football.

Good post GOTB....and absolutely spot on.

I'm just saying non season ticket fans won't pay £30 plus a ticket every week to watch the style / type of football played by Bolton today, I'm not saying that it doesn't get us results and Parkinson is doing a sterling job with a limited team that can't play better football so it should be admired.

I'm just saying to improve the attendances that KA wants, the product on the pitch needs to improve dramatically, that's not necessarily a dig at Parkinson (although personally I really dislike his ultra defensive tactics), he's actually doing a decent job with the players he's got, its more of a dig at KA who if he wants better attendances needs to provide the funds to sign better players.

Again personally though I think a more offensive / attack minded manager would probably get much more out of these players than Parkinson does / will.

[Prufrock]

The gameplan was perfect till 2-0. We sat off them and let them play in front of us. They didn’t create much. We went two up and then the adrenaline got to us and we pressed the ball too high and they found space in behind us. They left lots forward.

Agreed with Alan Gowling on the radio that it’s tough when teams do what Bristol did and effectively played their full backs as wingers. They have better players than we do and it shows that when we tried to squeeze in their own half they could cut through us.

You are always going to complain with how we play. It’s just the way it is. As Alan Gowling says with what we’ve got it’s how we must play because once we open up teams can just go through us.

We missed Ameobi. But what a buy Magennis looks.

What a load of absolute bollocks as usual from 'Mr know it all', if we play well I'll say so & when we are poor I won't dress it up like you do - I'll tell it as I saw it.

You certainly watched a different game to me & many others (read the other forums from people who went today), most are saying that we were poor - you say they didn't create much - are you serious, if they could finish they could have scored 6 or 7 and they should have a pen at the start of the 2nd half, it was like Men against boys at times our midfield just sat off them all game and they passed it around us & through us.

There is no shame in getting a point from a very good Bristol City team....but lets not dress it up as a good Bolton performance.

Come on man, you love a moan! Haven't seen any of today so you might well be bob on but you're the brown tinted specs to Tango's rose!

It's fine, it's your vibe.

I'd have taken 4 now before we started but that was a kick in the teeth.

[GhostoftheBok]

Good post GOTB....and absolutely spot on.

I'm just saying non season ticket fans won't pay £30 plus a ticket every week to watch the style / type of football played by Bolton today, I'm not saying that it doesn't get us results and Parkinson is doing a sterling job with a limited team that can't play better football so it should be admired.

I'm just saying to improve the attendances that KA wants, the product on the pitch needs to improve dramatically, that's not necessarily a dig at Parkinson (although personally I really dislike his ultra defensive tactics), he's actually doing a decent job with the players he's got, its more of a dig at KA who if he wants better attendances needs to provide the funds to sign better players.

Again personally though I think a more offensive / attack minded manager would probably get much more out of these players than Parkinson does / will.

I think it depends what you mean by "get more out of."

In a sense, I agree. I think most players are capable of doing more than running around and hoofing a ball, but it's whether what we have can do more and consistently win matches. If we had Gary Monk in charge, for example, we'd likely play on the front foot a lot more and the games would be more fun to watch...we'd probably have lost our opening two games, though. I think some individual players would blossom under a manager who gave them more freedom, but we have a squad that currently needs to play this way to survive in a decent division with some quality attacking sides.

What was interesting, I thought, was that in the first half Parky was actually screaming at the defence to push up and the lads to get forward. It was Wheater and Beevers who were yelling at players around them to drop back. Parky seems to have the desire to compress the midfield and hold a higher line, so the press is harder to beat. The defenders know they'll get murdered by anything in behind them, though, and so they drop off and drop off. I'm not sure they're even aware how deep they are half the time. The centre backs seem to want to chalk on their boots from the 18 yard box as often as possible.

[Peter Thompson]

And you Prufrock love having a dig just for the sake of it....even though you haven't even seen the game

[Prufrock]

No-ones having a dig pal. Just spent half hour or so reading through the views of the match goers and all gratefully received.

Just not having you pretending to be sunshine and light .

[BWFC_Insane]

Good post GOTB....and absolutely spot on.

I'm just saying non season ticket fans won't pay £30 plus a ticket every week to watch the style / type of football played by Bolton today, I'm not saying that it doesn't get us results and Parkinson is doing a sterling job with a limited team that can't play better football so it should be admired.

I'm just saying to improve the attendances that KA wants, the product on the pitch needs to improve dramatically, that's not necessarily a dig at Parkinson (although personally I really dislike his ultra defensive tactics), he's actually doing a decent job with the players he's got, its more of a dig at KA who if he wants better attendances needs to provide the funds to sign better players.

Again personally though I think a more offensive / attack minded manager would probably get much more out of these players than Parkinson does / will.

I think it depends what you mean by "get more out of."

In a sense, I agree. I think most players are capable of doing more than running around and hoofing a ball, but it's whether what we have can do more and consistently win matches. If we had Gary Monk in charge, for example, we'd likely play on the front foot a lot more and the games would be more fun to watch...we'd probably have lost our opening two games, though. I think some individual players would blossom under a manager who gave them more freedom, but we have a squad that currently needs to play this way to survive in a decent division with some quality attacking sides.

What was interesting, I thought, was that in the first half Parky was actually screaming at the defence to push up and the lads to get forward. It was Wheater and Beevers who were yelling at players around them to drop back. Parky seems to have the desire to compress the midfield and hold a higher line, so the press is harder to beat. The defenders know they'll get murdered by anything in behind them, though, and so they drop off and drop off. I'm not sure they're even aware how deep they are half the time. The centre backs seem to want to chalk on their boots from the 18 yard box as often as possible.

Spot on. You could see Lowe and Murphy trying to drag the team up and Beevers and Wheater trying to drag it back.

Their lad up front had the beating of Wheater for pace in the first few minutes and from then you could see big Dave shit it and drop deep. He was poor today Wheater. A far cry from last week.

[GhostoftheBok]

Spot on. You could see Lowe and Murphy trying to drag the team up and Beevers and Wheater trying to drag it back.

Their lad up front had the beating of Wheater for pace in the first few minutes and from then you could see big Dave shit it and drop deep. He was poor today Wheater. A far cry from last week.

That's why I said I was more worried about how we'd play at home than away. We can't step-up and so I don't see how we play "like the home team", if you'll excuse the cliche.

I think this was predictable and I'm waiting to see what happens in the loan market to maybe give us some options. Lack of a #10 is an issue until Ozzy is fit to play, combined with lack of pace. Bristol made mistakes and we scored, but they weren't scared of that side we put out today. No threats in behind and even if there were we had nobody in midfield who'd find them.

[Prufrock]

What the feck happens to ALF if we're after another striker? No idea where he fits in.

[Peter Thompson]

There was a complete lack of intensity & energy in the first 20 mins, which then became a lack of intensity in the first 30 & then the entire 1st half.

Whether that was down to coaching (or the lack of it), management instruction or the players themselves only the manager & coaching staff will know.

Serious question not a wind up or anything - player for player are Bristol City that much better than us in terms of their players being very comfortable on the ball, being much quicker, much more energetic, more physical, moving the ball a lot quicker and their players generally looking a division or so higher than ours - have they spend millions or is there manager better tactically ?

Because I actually thought that they were missing a few of their best players & had sold a really good LB - I didn't expect that today from them, but they seriously impressed me today in how they played football on the front foot for the full 90 mins, they ran rings round us for the majority of the game.

[GhostoftheBok]

There was a complete lack of intensity & energy in the first 20 mins, which then became a lack of intensity in the first 30 & then the entire 1st half.


Because I actually thought that they were missing a few of their best players & had sold a really good LB - I didn't expect that today from them, but they seriously impressed me today in how they played football on the front foot for the full 90 mins, they ran rings round us for the majority of the game.

I missed the first 10 minutes or so, but otherwise yeah. The first half, for us, was a non-event.

Bristol City were one of the best attacking outfits in the league last term, but their away form was shocking in the end. So I expected them to provide a threat, I thought we'd win though if we kept things tight. They scout and invest well and they do spend money, yes. They've a number of multi-million-pound players in their side. They've also had a while to build a coherent team and squad, whereas we've had to throw shite at a wall of late and hope it sticks. Bristol have been building to a plan for season after season and it shows. Some of our individuals might make their team, but their team makes more sense than our's does. Hope I explained my thinking there clearly, it's been a tiring day.

[GhostoftheBok]

Any fancy us beating Leeds, by the way, after they smashed two promotion hopefuls?

[Peter Thompson]

Yes cheers GOTB, your posts are decent and show a degree of knowledge & experience.