Blunting the Blades and walking on the Wilder side? BWFC v Sheffield Utd 25/8/18

[Harry Genshaw]

Our midfield must be the worst in the division, just static - they don't move, they don't compete, they just sit off and watch...no one runs with the ball, they constantly give the ball away.

I know its only one game but Bristol City & B/ham played us off the park and the same again today - we come out in the 1st minute and just don't compete, we just sit back and invite pressure and let them attack us....we just sat and watched them pass & move at will.

Largely agree with this. Sheffield are someone to aspire to. They haven't spent millions but showed you can play good football with a good work ethic and players showing for the ball. For long periods we looked pedestrian.

0-3 didn't flatter them

Except they have. Quite literally. This season and the season before last. And it shows.

Really? Whos that then? I can't remember them spending big on any one player and up top they had Sharpe and Clarke (& McGoldrick) who were a combined cost of 500k.

John Egan - £4.5M
Oliver Norwood - £2.2M

Granted, they sold one of their youth players for big money but it doesn't change the fact that they had players out there today who commanded seven figure transfer fees this summer. The season before last they spent over £5M without recouping any of it back.

Now, Chris Wilder is clearly a very, very good manager and I doubt that Parky will ever play beautiful football but we can't really expect him to properly compete with such a financial gulf.

Ah right. I thought Norwood was on loan. Whatever, they're not Forest, Stoke, etc

Like Preston, they're someone I think we should be looking to aspire to. Get our finances on an even keel and look to play as they do & develop & sell players as they have

[nicholaldo]

Our midfield must be the worst in the division, just static - they don't move, they don't compete, they just sit off and watch...no one runs with the ball, they constantly give the ball away.

I know its only one game but Bristol City & B/ham played us off the park and the same again today - we come out in the 1st minute and just don't compete, we just sit back and invite pressure and let them attack us....we just sat and watched them pass & move at will.

Largely agree with this. Sheffield are someone to aspire to. They haven't spent millions but showed you can play good football with a good work ethic and players showing for the ball. For long periods we looked pedestrian.

0-3 didn't flatter them

Except they have. Quite literally. This season and the season before last. And it shows.

Really? Whos that then? I can't remember them spending big on any one player and up top they had Sharpe and Clarke (& McGoldrick) who were a combined cost of 500k.

John Egan - £4.5M
Oliver Norwood - £2.2M

Granted, they sold one of their youth players for big money but it doesn't change the fact that they had players out there today who commanded seven figure transfer fees this summer. The season before last they spent over £5M without recouping any of it back.

Now, Chris Wilder is clearly a very, very good manager and I doubt that Parky will ever play beautiful football but we can't really expect him to properly compete with such a financial gulf.

Ah right. I thought Norwood was on loan. Whatever, they're not Forest, Stoke, etc

Like Preston, they're someone I think we should be looking to aspire to. Get our finances on an even keel and look to play as they do & develop & sell players as they have

Aye, it's the avenue I'd want us to go down as well. Preston are a particularly good example, what with them being a similar size club to us and with similar potential. They generally sign players in their early twenties with promise and then develop them, and have also managed to sell a couple for good money. I still think that we're some way away from that though, as we moved Madine on in January but had to use the transfer fee just to cover the wage bill.

[mullayo]

Like Preston, they're someone I think we should be looking to aspire to. Get our finances on an even keel and look to play as they do & develop & sell players as they have

Aye, it's the avenue I'd want us to go down as well. Preston are a particularly good example, what with them being a similar size club to us and with similar potential. They generally sign players in their early twenties with promise and then develop them, and have also managed to sell a couple for good money. I still think that we're some way away from that though, as we moved Madine on in January but had to use the transfer fee just to cover the wage bill.

Selling Madine and Clough was good business but $3m for Holding should have got more.
Sheff got $11m for their lad.
I don't see any starlets at our club at the moment.
Silly money at the moment for youf.
A top youth academy seems to be the only way to compete with the relegated teams if you'rea smaller club.

May have to sell Magennis if we need money. Vela?

Two of our best performers have been Noone and SAmeobi, now they're both fit I think they should both start.
Olki had a good combination with Noone so Sammy on the left.

[BWFC_Insane]

Noone and Ameobi both play in the same position. That is why we aren’t starting them both.

[Hoboh]

Now, Chris Wilder is clearly a very, very good manager and I doubt that Parky will ever play beautiful football but we can't really expect him to properly compete with such a financial gulf.

Nobody wants him to play beautiful football week in week out but we do expect organisation and bucket loads of effort, if you lose then, you lose but with dignity.
I can understand where PT comes from sometimes, watching people roll over and have their belly's tickled is painful to watch.

[TANGODANCER]

Without commenting on a game I didn't see, just heard, and just speaking generally as a supporter, I'd be tempted to think that the big question Parky should be asking right now about yesterday is "why?"...We're not going to win every game and are certain to get a few hidings; every single fan who's honest will admit at the start of the season we wanted lower half safety as a target. That's probably still the likeliest option but we made an unexpectedly good start if in pedictable fashion: dogged defending and relying on scoring from a break or set piece. Why do we keep letting soft goals in? What's the point in being third from top if we play like third from bottom? Too many times we're under the cosh from the first whistle and yesterday we could have been three down in the firsat ten minutes.. We're going to need more than good? defending to keep the fans happy. We have to fight and take it to the opposition. We didn't do that yesterday and lost 3-0. Why not lose 3-0 from giving it a go from up field instead of starting everything from our own half? If we're going to play long-ball wallop, at least have sombody up there to wallop it to? The opposition only have the same number of bodies on the field that we do, so.....

Teams aren't afraid of Bolton anymore. There's no Kev Davies, Kev Nolan or Campo and co waiting. I'm betting every manager in the league tells his team to atack and hassle us as the way to beat us. At least get somebody venturing beyond our eighteen yard box and shove the xxxxxxx back. Attack has always been a decent form of defence ....give it a go Phil....

[nicholaldo]

Now, Chris Wilder is clearly a very, very good manager and I doubt that Parky will ever play beautiful football but we can't really expect him to properly compete with such a financial gulf.

Nobody wants him to play beautiful football week in week out but we do expect organisation and bucket loads of effort, if you lose then, you lose but with dignity.
I can understand where PT comes from sometimes, watching people roll over and have their belly's tickled is painful to watch.

We nearly always have organisation and effort from Parky; it's one of his strong points, and it's one of the reasons why he's the only manager we've had recently who's proven capable of arresting the downward trajectory we've been on. And there was certainly no lack of effort yesterday either.

For the most part, the belief that a team loses because of a lack of effort is an illusory one. It appears as though players aren't putting the required effort in but in reality it's usually just that their limitations are being exposed and exploited by superior opposition. What worked against one team doesn't against a better quality one, and it can be hard, or often just impossible, to be physically capable of doing what is needed to open said better quality team up. Not to mention they have to expend much more energy just to try and keep them from scoring because they're being tested in ways that the average team can't test them. It's no wonder then, that passes start to go astray, or players start to find themselves caught in the wrong position, or that they're more easily knocked out of possession. I'd love us to dictate the tempo and spray it about, but they had Oliver Norwood and John Fleck in midfield yesterday, not us, and we can't afford players who can do what they can.

As for poor organisation, have you never considered how much of a consequence that might be of having to piece together a team in the dying stages of a transfer window? How can Parky really be expected to have his players well-drilled and well-versed in his tactical instructions when they're being signed so late in the day? Grounds didn't give an especially good account of himself on his debut, but then it's hardly ideal that we had to sign him just a fortnight ago, or that he was never really Parky's first choice. Luke Murphy was signed as a first-team player, yet only arrived here two days before the first competitive match of the campaign. How many pre-season matches did Josh Magennis play? Let me tell you, none. Because he signed on the Monday and, like Murphy, his first match for us, on the Saturday, was also the first competitive one. None of that happened by Parky's choice. In fact, the Bolton News regularly ran articles with quotes from him practically begging for signings as the season got closer.

The consensus on here, and elsewhere, is that the signing of Karl Henry was a huge factor in us staying up last season, yet he wasn't our player until the September. We can't know exactly why he wasn't signed earlier, but given what's happened this summer with us holding out on our transfer targets for a more financially agreeable deal and then missing out on them, how likely is it that we were in for an enforcer but had to settle for an out-of-contract Henry because a deal couldn't be done?

And we certainly saw how our fortunes improved once we managed to slot him in, and once Ameobi and Vela were fit enough to start. The 4-2-3-1 with a target man, two holding/spoiling midfielders, a runner in behind and two wingers is what Parky's team is, or at least it's what a Parky team has looked like in Bolton colours. It's no coincidence that it's been our most organised and effective team in years. The run from the first match we played with the above set-up through to the January accumulated a comfortable upper mid-table points return. And it was aound twenty matches, so a decent enough sample size for it not to be pure chance, and remarkably it was built on free transfers. Then we sold Madine and weren't able to sign a replacement, leaving Parky to think up an alternative way of playing at the eleventh hour and with inadequate resources.

Yes, we sometimes haven't won matches that we should have, and , yes, he doesn't always get it right. But then that's just as true of any manager. For the first time in a decade we have a man in charge who actually has an idea of what he's doing, and he's having to do it in trying circumstances. There are still many problems at our football club but honestly, Parky isn't one of them.

[Jugs]

Noone and Ameobi both play in the same position. That is why we aren’t starting them both.

The left side looks like a problem position. Buckley has been very poor in the games he's started, and while Wildschutt has done well when he's come on, he also looked poor from the start against Brum.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We've had some truly awful managers over the last decade or so. The likes of Lennon, Freedman and Coyle you'd think's be difficult to out-crap. But in my opinion Parkinson is doing just that. His sides bore, irritate, frustrate and disappoint in equal measure. But even worse, they all underperform.
This may seem a strange whinge when we're third in the league, but that position won't last much longer. Our goal difference shows our real true potential right at this moment, and that's about fourteenth. I doubt we'll still be in the top half in six weeks time, and will be struggling to stay out of the relegation zone in sixteen week's time.
I firmly believe he has no vision, no plan, nor any ambition beyond surviving each match. That attitude might possibly keep him here for months and even years yet - but it will be to the long term detriment of Bolton Wanderers.
Unlike Peter Thompson (and no doubt to the disappointment of some) I won't be declaring my imminent departure from supporting the Trotters - I shall keep going - but I reserve the right to diss the shite performance that Parkinson's sudes put out.
(And to make absolutely clear, I'm not complaining about the performance against Sheffield United as I didn't attend and therefore not qualified to comment on that directly (although I meant to, attend that is), and indeed obviously I'm complaining about the result).

[enrdentw]

Noone and Ameobi both play in the same position. That is why we aren’t starting them both.

The left side looks like a problem position. Buckley has been very poor in the games he's started, and while Wildschutt has done well when he's come on, he also looked poor from the start against Brum.

Noone is naturally left footed, no reason why he can't play on that side.

I'm not having Wildschut, looks clumsy on the ball and has a poor touch.

[BWFC_Insane]

We've had some truly awful managers over the last decade or so. The likes of Lennon, Freedman and Coyle you'd think's be difficult to out-crap. But in my opinion Parkinson is doing just that. His sides bore, irritate, frustrate and disappoint in equal measure. But even worse, they all underperform.
This may seem a strange whinge when we're third in the league, but that position won't last much longer. Our goal difference shows our real true potential right at this moment, and that's about fourteenth. I doubt we'll still be in the top half in six weeks time, and will be struggling to stay out of the relegation zone in sixteen week's time.
I firmly believe he has no vision, no plan, nor any ambition beyond surviving each match. That attitude might possibly keep him here for months and even years yet - but it will be to the long term detriment of Bolton Wanderers.
Unlike Peter Thompson (and no doubt to the disappointment of some) I won't be declaring my imminent departure from supporting the Trotters - I shall keep going - but I reserve the right to diss the shite performance that Parkinson's sudes put out.
(And to make absolutely clear, I'm not complaining about the performance against Sheffield United as I didn't attend and therefore not qualified to comment on that directly (although I meant to, attend that is), and indeed obviously I'm complaining about the result).

So our first manager to improve our position two years down the line is worse than the previous ones who dragged us further down in the same time period whilst also enjoying far larger budgets?

Impeccable logic!

The truth is that Coyle aside we’ve had bad or average managers. Coyle was beyond bad. Parkinson is the first good manager we’ve had since Big Sam who was exceptional. There aren’t many managers in existence who can take us from where we were to where we are whilst spending no money and selling your best players.

[Jugs]

Noone and Ameobi both play in the same position. That is why we aren’t starting them both.

The left side looks like a problem position. Buckley has been very poor in the games he's started, and while Wildschutt has done well when he's come on, he also looked poor from the start against Brum.

Noone is naturally left footed, no reason why he can't play on that side.

I'm not having Wildschut, looks clumsy on the ball and has a poor touch.

Let's see him there then. Better option than Bucko.

Incidentally, I read that the only reason Buckely was hooked against Reading was because he took a knock. Parky's gotta wake up to this one - Buckley is a major liability.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We've had some truly awful managers over the last decade or so. The likes of Lennon, Freedman and Coyle you'd think's be difficult to out-crap. But in my opinion Parkinson is doing just that. His sides bore, irritate, frustrate and disappoint in equal measure. But even worse, they all underperform.
This may seem a strange whinge when we're third in the league, but that position won't last much longer. Our goal difference shows our real true potential right at this moment, and that's about fourteenth. I doubt we'll still be in the top half in six weeks time, and will be struggling to stay out of the relegation zone in sixteen week's time.
I firmly believe he has no vision, no plan, nor any ambition beyond surviving each match. That attitude might possibly keep him here for months and even years yet - but it will be to the long term detriment of Bolton Wanderers.
Unlike Peter Thompson (and no doubt to the disappointment of some) I won't be declaring my imminent departure from supporting the Trotters - I shall keep going - but I reserve the right to diss the shite performance that Parkinson's sudes put out.
(And to make absolutely clear, I'm not complaining about the performance against Sheffield United as I didn't attend and therefore not qualified to comment on that directly (although I meant to, attend that is), and indeed obviously I'm complaining about the result).

So our first manager to improve our position two years down the line is worse than the previous ones who dragged us further down in the same time period whilst also enjoying far larger budgets?

Impeccable logic!

The truth is that Coyle aside we’ve had bad or average managers. Coyle was beyond bad. Parkinson is the first good manager we’ve had since Big Sam who was exceptional. There aren’t many managers in existence who can take us from where we were to where we are whilst spending no money and selling your best players.

In what way has he improved anything? The sheer dreariness of watching his sides play football has far more 'tediousness' factor than Coyle's side. To be honest I'd welcome Coyle, Lennon, or Freedman back, knowing they'd plummet, but at least give me some 'entertainment'.
The facetious argument he is 'good' depends entirely on the fact we are in the Championship and not in League 2. Hardly a ringing endorsement of "Good".

[BWFC_Insane]

We've had some truly awful managers over the last decade or so. The likes of Lennon, Freedman and Coyle you'd think's be difficult to out-crap. But in my opinion Parkinson is doing just that. His sides bore, irritate, frustrate and disappoint in equal measure. But even worse, they all underperform.
This may seem a strange whinge when we're third in the league, but that position won't last much longer. Our goal difference shows our real true potential right at this moment, and that's about fourteenth. I doubt we'll still be in the top half in six weeks time, and will be struggling to stay out of the relegation zone in sixteen week's time.
I firmly believe he has no vision, no plan, nor any ambition beyond surviving each match. That attitude might possibly keep him here for months and even years yet - but it will be to the long term detriment of Bolton Wanderers.
Unlike Peter Thompson (and no doubt to the disappointment of some) I won't be declaring my imminent departure from supporting the Trotters - I shall keep going - but I reserve the right to diss the shite performance that Parkinson's sudes put out.
(And to make absolutely clear, I'm not complaining about the performance against Sheffield United as I didn't attend and therefore not qualified to comment on that directly (although I meant to, attend that is), and indeed obviously I'm complaining about the result).

So our first manager to improve our position two years down the line is worse than the previous ones who dragged us further down in the same time period whilst also enjoying far larger budgets?

Impeccable logic!

The truth is that Coyle aside we’ve had bad or average managers. Coyle was beyond bad. Parkinson is the first good manager we’ve had since Big Sam who was exceptional. There aren’t many managers in existence who can take us from where we were to where we are whilst spending no money and selling your best players.

In what way has he improved anything? The sheer dreariness of watching his sides play football has far more 'tediousness' factor than Coyle's side. To be honest I'd welcome Coyle, Lennon, or Freedman back, knowing they'd plummet, but at least give me some 'entertainment'.
The facetious argument he is 'good' depends entirely on the fact we are in the Championship and not in League 2. Hardly a ringing endorsement of "Good".

I realise that judging a manager by league position and results against financial performance is an inconvenience to your argument.

But sadly they are the objective measures available. Beyond a ‘LLS reckons’ metric.....

[Prufrock]

Do you remember the phrase "WUM"?

People used to call each other WUMs all the time on the internet. Then it died off.

Don't know why that came to mind

[Bijou Bob]

We're third with two away wins.I'll take that, all day, every day. For as long as possible.

[dave the minion]

In what way has he improved anything? The sheer dreariness of watching his sides play football has far more 'tediousness' factor than Coyle's side. To be honest I'd welcome Coyle, Lennon, or Freedman back, knowing they'd plummet, but at least give me some 'entertainment'.
The facetious argument he is 'good' depends entirely on the fact we are in the Championship and not in League 2. Hardly a ringing endorsement of "Good".

Amazing post. PP has stopped the slide that many of us thought might end up with us slipping out of league 1, with the possible consequence of us slipping out of existence altogether.

He's cobbled teams together with no budget and with the best players continually pulled from under him. He's had to try to attract and integrate players who are capped at relatively low maximum salaries. He's had to rally the troops when off the field they are not being paid, are on strike, or are wondering whether their employer will still exist in a week's time.

He got us promoted from league 1 and kept us in the Championship. Sunderland had a reported £100m windfall from dropping out of the premier league last season, compared with our assumed £0. And we finished above them.

He somehow created a spirit in the team that was capable of coming back against Forest last season when anyone with any sense would have bet everything they own on us not staying up.

Along with KA he's helped attract god-knows-how many players this summer, and is building a team that genuinely doesn't look by far the weakest in the league this season. A team that has won 2 & drawn 1 of the first 4 games of the season.

Yes, of course the squad is limited. We will struggle sometimes and we will get thumped. Teams will see us as cannon fodder and we will endure many a tedious match I'm sure. Some of our players will disappoint and underperform, but these players were most likely cast offs from our rivals.....

How has he improved anything? Surely you must be having a laugh if you can't see what's plainly in front of your face??????

The facetious argument he is 'good' depends entirely on the fact we are in the Championship and not in League 2. Hardly a ringing endorsement of "Good"

Of course it fecking is - what's wrong with you? A manager that - with all the shit thats gone on over recent years - gets us up to the Championship instead of dropping down to league 2, absolutely qualifies as "good". Very good i'd say....

[dave the minion]

In what way has he improved anything? The sheer dreariness of watching his sides play football has far more 'tediousness' factor than Coyle's side. To be honest I'd welcome Coyle, Lennon, or Freedman back, knowing they'd plummet, but at least give me some 'entertainment'.
The facetious argument he is 'good' depends entirely on the fact we are in the Championship and not in League 2. Hardly a ringing endorsement of "Good".

Amazing post. PP has stopped the slide that many of us thought might end up with us slipping out of league 1, with the possible consequence of us slipping out of existence altogether.

He's cobbled teams together with no budget and with the best players continually pulled from under him. He's had to try to attract and integrate players who are capped at relatively low maximum salaries. He's had to rally the troops when off the field they are not being paid, are on strike, or are wondering whether their employer will still exist in a week's time.

He got us promoted from league 1 and kept us in the Championship. Sunderland had a reported £100m windfall from dropping out of the premier league last season, compared with our assumed £0. And we finished above them.

He somehow created a spirit in the team that was capable of coming back against Forest last season when anyone with any sense would have bet everything they own on us not staying up.

Along with KA he's helped attract god-knows-how many players this summer, and is building a team that genuinely doesn't look by far the weakest in the league this season. A team that has won 2 & drawn 1 of the first 4 games of the season.

Yes, of course the squad is limited. We will struggle sometimes and we will get thumped. Teams will see us as cannon fodder and we will endure many a tedious match I'm sure. Some of our players will disappoint and underperform, but these players were most likely cast offs from our rivals.....

How has he improved anything? Surely you must be having a laugh if you can't see what's plainly in front of your face??????

The facetious argument he is 'good' depends entirely on the fact we are in the Championship and not in League 2. Hardly a ringing endorsement of "Good"

Of course it fecking is - what's wrong with you? A manager that - with all the shit thats gone on over recent years - gets us up to the Championship instead of dropping down to league 2, absolutely qualifies as "good". Very good i'd say....

[SmokinFrazier]

Both sides of the Parkinson argument have some validity.

The football is dreadful and whilst that doesn't matter to me, it's not really effective and that is what matters, and even though you can defend him by saying the budget is low, they can still be better organised than they are. Even in League One we didn't look like a dominant team and I don't get the impression that Parkinson would be capable of pushing for Championship promotion regardless of the squad, just because of his mentality. We always play like a scrappy underdog and that won't change under him, which unfortunately means that there's a ceiling to how far he can go.

That being said, of the 14 players who played against Sheffield United, 8 of them were new signings so it's not like this team has reached it's full potential yet and he does need something of a budget. What he's had to work with has been very minimal, he's had far too much squad overhauling to do and he deserves a chance to see what he can do. I don't want to see him gone this year but if we only just stay up, I'd want a different option to take us forward because Parkinson probably won't be that man.

[TANGODANCER]

A question that's surely relevant amongst all this: Where do we have to finish to avoid financial problems this season? We all know the club needs investment, but if we don't get bought out and manage to stay decently in the division, are we really going to make a fist of trying for Premeiership promotion in the none-too-distant future and how are we going to finance it? We won't do it without some serious spending and the players we have may be okay here, but in the Prem even a miraculous promotion spot would see us right back down unless we spend big. It's a crap scenario I admit, where it's all about buying your way up, but that's millennium football. A big Quo Vadis Ken lad?