Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by Jugs » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:02 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:08 pm
Jugs wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:36 pm
Lmao maybe front foot was the wrong way of putting it but this was definitely a more positive, aggressive performance.

I know some of you like to deny PP is ever negative at home, but slotting Otzumer - who was excellent - in there today was a big difference from the Sheffield United game when our flat midfield had no idea how to get out and move the ball forward - or any belief.

Today we had some ideas, belief, desire, aggression and at times even urgency to get up the pitch when we had the chance. We had to defend a lot but there were avenues out of defence and into attack this time.
Oztumer played well. He did offer an outlet. But we had 26% possession and had two efforts on target. Today was the same as we’ve played every game at home except for Derby pratted about and we kept our defensive shape superbly. The early goal clearly contributing too. If anything it was our biggest rearguard effort at home yet.
How was that the same? We were absolute shite against Sheffield united and QPR and didn't look capable of anything.

Against Derby, we expected to be pinned back - and we were - but we had more of an outlet when we had the chance to get forward. Against QPR, no one expected us to be pinned back but PPs tactics had us on the back foot by design and we had no outlet in the middle.
Last edited by Jugs on Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:10 pm

Jugs wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:02 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:08 pm
Jugs wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:36 pm
Lmao maybe front foot was the wrong way of putting it but this was definitely a more positive, aggressive performance.

I know some of you like to deny PP is ever negative at home, but slotting Otzumer - who was excellent - in there today was a big difference from the Sheffield United game when our flat midfield had no idea how to get out and move the ball forward - or any belief.

Today we had some ideas, belief, desire, aggression and at times even urgency to get up the pitch when we had the chance. We had to defend a lot but there were avenues out of defence and into attack this time.
Oztumer played well. He did offer an outlet. But we had 26% possession and had two efforts on target. Today was the same as we’ve played every game at home except for Derby pratted about and we kept our defensive shape superbly. The early goal clearly contributing too. If anything it was our biggest rearguard effort at home yet.
How was that the same? We were absolute shite against Sheffield united and QPR and didn't look capable of anything.
Because Derby came onto us whereas those two invited us on and hit us on the counter. QPR especially. Derby stuck players forwards and played from the back. It was perfect for us. We treated it like an away game.
It is the best we’ve played at home but also the most defensive and counter punch type too.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by Jugs » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:30 pm

Hmm I can concede your point but surely you've gotta see the reason we got the counter punch right was because we were more positive on the ball when we had possession and had more ideas and belief. We didn't have that against Sheffield united. We were just poor and - at times - terrified.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:17 pm

Jugs wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:30 pm
Hmm I can concede your point but surely you've gotta see the reason we got the counter punch right was because we were more positive on the ball when we had possession and had more ideas and belief. We didn't have that against Sheffield united. We were just poor and - at times - terrified.
We were more positive because Derby left spaces. Just like teams do when we go away.

I’m not saying it wasn’t improved. But we are setup best way to get results. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.

Oztumer is helping as well. But as Parkin said he was off the pace earlier in the season, so it wasn’t a grand Parkinson conspiracy why he wasn’t playing. Just a league one player struggling to adjust to the demands of the championship.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:21 pm

Sheffield United are the best team we've played, certainly at home. They controlled us completely and didn't allow us the space in the middle that we had today. It helps that Oztumer is having more of an influence as he's clearly our most creative option in behind the front man, but I don't think there's really been any difference in attacking intent as such, it's just been a matter of individual capability and the way opposing teams have set up i.e. it's not we've intentionally set out to defend, it's that we've mostly had a very uninventive midfield triangle (usually Lowe, O'Neill, Vela or Lowe, O'Neill, Williams).

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:43 pm

I'm thinking that the main thing today, despite all the technical pros and cons, is that we won and got three points. On Wednesday, Frank Lampard was cock-a-hoop from beating United, but today he went back home after losing to Bolton. A bit like the Arsene Wenger stuff I quoted earlier; you just never know in football. I think a more settled side and players now getting used to each other's games is a contributary factor and bodes well for the future. We may not be a top side, but Derby are regarded as one...... We won. I'm going to bed a happy Wanderer tonight.... :wink:
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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by The_Gun » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:12 am

Terrific win and 3 points I don't think anyone expected. Without wanting to sound too much like Ken Anderson, hopefully this victory encourages more fans to show up for the derby next weekend.

Sounds like Hobbs has been excellent the past couple of games, so does he now go into our best XI?

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by Jugs » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:42 am

nicholaldo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:21 pm
Sheffield United are the best team we've played, certainly at home. They controlled us completely and didn't allow us the space in the middle that we had today. It helps that Oztumer is having more of an influence as he's clearly our most creative option in behind the front man, but I don't think there's really been any difference in attacking intent as such, it's just been a matter of individual capability and the way opposing teams have set up i.e. it's not we've intentionally set out to defend, it's that we've mostly had a very uninventive midfield triangle (usually Lowe, O'Neill, Vela or Lowe, O'Neill, Williams).
Even if we had spaces v Sheffield united we wouldn't have known what to do with it. Murphy was awful in that game.

The difference in attacking intent is swapping one of Murphy, Lowe or Vela for Otz. He gives us something none of those three do.

When you have a middle 3 of Vela, Lowe and Muprhy you don't have attacking intent lol

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:35 am

After reading all the match reports I could find it's heartening to find that nobody is calling our win flukey. Most seem to give us credit for a good defensive display (which it undoubtedly was) and having a couple of decent chances besides the goal. Parky will be the happier manager of the two at least for today... :D
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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:29 pm

Jugs wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:42 am
nicholaldo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:21 pm
Sheffield United are the best team we've played, certainly at home. They controlled us completely and didn't allow us the space in the middle that we had today. It helps that Oztumer is having more of an influence as he's clearly our most creative option in behind the front man, but I don't think there's really been any difference in attacking intent as such, it's just been a matter of individual capability and the way opposing teams have set up i.e. it's not we've intentionally set out to defend, it's that we've mostly had a very uninventive midfield triangle (usually Lowe, O'Neill, Vela or Lowe, O'Neill, Williams).
Even if we had spaces v Sheffield united we wouldn't have known what to do with it. Murphy was awful in that game.

The difference in attacking intent is swapping one of Murphy, Lowe or Vela for Otz. He gives us something none of those three do.

When you have a middle 3 of Vela, Lowe and Muprhy you don't have attacking intent lol

Well, we have had attacking intent. It just involves us knocking it wide to the wingers rather than trying to play through the middle. We've also used space fairly well on the rare occasions we had it under Parky. It's nothing new, we just rely on that space being given to us, rather than us being good enough to create it.

So, what you've really been arguing for is a change to the starting line-up rather than this “playing on the front foot” thing. As have most people on here, myself included. The thing is, we picked up a few good results early on, and it's hard to argue in favour of changing a successful format. When Parky did change it and gave Oztumer his first league start, we won in spite of him. That's not to say he played particularly poorly, but we struggled to involve him and he wasn't able to impose himself (there was a brief spell towards the end when Ameobi came on where he had a few bright sports, but the game had been stretched by them looking for an equaliser). It's no surprise that Parky then went for the midfield that he did against Sheffield United. And even if he had played Oztumer from the beginning, it's very unlikely that we would have fared much better. The only mistake you could really argue he has made in this regard is not starting Oztumer against QPR. But then I can understand why he was reluctant to, and it's now something that he's doing.

If you use the phrase “attacking on the front foot” to mean taking the game to the opposition or looking to attack, then it isn't that we haven't been trying to, or even that we haven't - QPR hit us on the counter for their first goal after all. We've just had pretty serious inadequacies that we've had to accommodate for at the same time. It's difficult to build from the back when Wheater and Beevers' distribution is so limited, and equally it's not easy to get men forward when we have to compensate their lack of mobility or our poor technical ability to keep posession under pressure. If recent team selections are anything to go by though, we do now appear to be making an effort to evolve. It was never going to happen straight away, for various reasons.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:37 pm

Get the Feck in!!

Parky got the preparation for this one perfect. We clogged up the area around the edge of our box, let Derby have it everywhere else including in some dangerous looking positions out wide, and they didn't have the players to break it down. They didn't really create many chances, we had the better ones when they made a mistake or we broke.

Everyone had a good game, would agree with Hobbs shading the Motm. We look a lot better with Hobbs in there for Beevers. Hope Hobbs can stay fit, never been any doubt about his ability.

Ozzy! The first time when he has looked he could be a real influence at this level. Worked hard, pressed them well, and two pieces of real creative quality when took the more difficult option and slid a pass inside of the defender to put Buckley in on goal, and an instant shot after the ball fell to him 25 yards out that bamboozled Carson but was just wide. Hopefully we will soon see him and Ameobi playing together and we might have real attacking quality.

Thought Derby were too one dimensional and very questionable to have the same XI for the three games in the week they have had. They didn't seem to lack energy though, tbf, but one wonders if fresher players were on the pitch whether they would've been more mentally alert to try something different from time to time. They just passed their way to 30 yards out and then ran into the white wall all game.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:38 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:12 am
Terrific win and 3 points I don't think anyone expected. Without wanting to sound too much like Ken Anderson, hopefully this victory encourages more fans to show up for the derby next weekend.

Sounds like Hobbs has been excellent the past couple of games, so does he now go into our best XI?

I hope so too, but at £31 for the cheapest ticket and it being televised, I wouldn't count on it.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:46 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:37 pm
Get the Feck in!!

Parky got the preparation for this one perfect. We clogged up the area around the edge of our box, let Derby have it everywhere else including in some dangerous looking positions out wide, and they didn't have the players to break it down. They didn't really create many chances, we had the better ones when they made a mistake or we broke.

Everyone had a good game, would agree with Hobbs shading the Motm. We look a lot better with Hobbs in there for Beevers. Hope Hobbs can stay fit, never been any doubt about his ability.

Ozzy! The first time when he has looked he could be a real influence at this level. Worked hard, pressed them well, and two pieces of real creative quality when took the more difficult option and slid a pass inside of the defender to put Buckley in on goal, and an instant shot after the ball fell to him 25 yards out that bamboozled Carson but was just wide. Hopefully we will soon see him and Ameobi playing together and we might have real attacking quality.

Thought Derby were too one dimensional and very questionable to have the same XI for the three games in the week they have had. They didn't seem to lack energy though, tbf, but one wonders if fresher players were on the pitch whether they would've been more mentally alert to try something different from time to time. They just passed their way to 30 yards out and then ran into the white wall all game.

They've been beaten by us, Rotherham and Milwall now so they appear to have a problem breaking teams down when they sit in and congest the midfield. I think that if they had a bit of pace further forward they'd have mullered us. But happily they didn't.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:56 pm

So can we now say we really ."carpe'd" that "diem?" . Maybe Latin is the way to go to confuse the opposition.... :lol: ...... :oyea:
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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by Jugs » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:56 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:29 pm
Jugs wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:42 am
nicholaldo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:21 pm
Sheffield United are the best team we've played, certainly at home. They controlled us completely and didn't allow us the space in the middle that we had today. It helps that Oztumer is having more of an influence as he's clearly our most creative option in behind the front man, but I don't think there's really been any difference in attacking intent as such, it's just been a matter of individual capability and the way opposing teams have set up i.e. it's not we've intentionally set out to defend, it's that we've mostly had a very uninventive midfield triangle (usually Lowe, O'Neill, Vela or Lowe, O'Neill, Williams).
Even if we had spaces v Sheffield united we wouldn't have known what to do with it. Murphy was awful in that game.

The difference in attacking intent is swapping one of Murphy, Lowe or Vela for Otz. He gives us something none of those three do.

When you have a middle 3 of Vela, Lowe and Muprhy you don't have attacking intent lol

Well, we have had attacking intent. It just involves us knocking it wide to the wingers rather than trying to play through the middle. We've also used space fairly well on the rare occasions we had it under Parky. It's nothing new, we just rely on that space being given to us, rather than us being good enough to create it.

So, what you've really been arguing for is a change to the starting line-up rather than this “playing on the front foot” thing. As have most people on here, myself included. The thing is, we picked up a few good results early on, and it's hard to argue in favour of changing a successful format. When Parky did change it and gave Oztumer his first league start, we won in spite of him. That's not to say he played particularly poorly, but we struggled to involve him and he wasn't able to impose himself (there was a brief spell towards the end when Ameobi came on where he had a few bright sports, but the game had been stretched by them looking for an equaliser). It's no surprise that Parky then went for the midfield that he did against Sheffield United. And even if he had played Oztumer from the beginning, it's very unlikely that we would have fared much better. The only mistake you could really argue he has made in this regard is not starting Oztumer against QPR. But then I can understand why he was reluctant to, and it's now something that he's doing.

If you use the phrase “attacking on the front foot” to mean taking the game to the opposition or looking to attack, then it isn't that we haven't been trying to, or even that we haven't - QPR hit us on the counter for their first goal after all. We've just had pretty serious inadequacies that we've had to accommodate for at the same time. It's difficult to build from the back when Wheater and Beevers' distribution is so limited, and equally it's not easy to get men forward when we have to compensate their lack of mobility or our poor technical ability to keep posession under pressure. If recent team selections are anything to go by though, we do now appear to be making an effort to evolve. It was never going to happen straight away, for various reasons.
Well, sort of. But what I also want is more urgency and desire against some of these so-called lesser teams at home. I don't know about you, but I saw no urgency or desire against QPR or Brum from the start. Whether it was Alnwick taking an age to take his goal kicks or the sideways passing, we lacked any sort of urgency to get the team or the crowd going. It was totally flat. And with that, the atmosphere dies, and so does belief. We weren't dominant enough, we looked a bit edgy. At home against poorer opposition, you expect more.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:02 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:46 pm

They've been beaten by us, Rotherham and Milwall now so they appear to have a problem breaking teams down when they sit in and congest the midfield. I think that if they had a bit of pace further forward they'd have mullered us. But happily they didn't.
Yes, or even a big target man. Not sure if Jerome is still there? They let Martin go to Hull. They brought on £10m of forwards in Marriott and Waghorn, but it didn't really solve the problem for them.

For us, it is encouraging that Lowe and Williams can do the job in defensive midfield, and we can get Ozzy in the team, and he seems to have adapted to how a Parky no. 10 needs to play i.e. lots of defensive work. Magennis, Hobbs, Olkowski all have upper Championship quality. Thought Buckley looked a good attacker yesterday too. More signs we can be a good Championship team.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:10 pm

Buckley to me has improved a lot over the summer...is he fitter? Probably needs a run of games which he should get now. And a goal to improve his confidence in front of goal. Fannied about with that one on one.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by boltonboris » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:19 pm

Buckley was frustrating though. Good play for the goal, but doesn't protect the ball enough and get's bullied too often

Wasted some golden opportunities to shoot, pass in good positions too, but our wingers won us the game, sooooo....
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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:04 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:19 pm
Buckley was frustrating though. Good play for the goal, but doesn't protect the ball enough and get's bullied too often

Wasted some golden opportunities to shoot, pass in good positions too, but our wingers won us the game, sooooo....
Noone is the same if not more so. Gives the ball away so much. Signs that Buckley is slowly getting back to something closer to his best. But still a way to go.

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Re: Carpe Diem....Versus Derby County at the Unibol, Sat 29th Sept.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:43 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:10 pm
Jugs wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:02 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:08 pm
Jugs wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:36 pm
Lmao maybe front foot was the wrong way of putting it but this was definitely a more positive, aggressive performance.

I know some of you like to deny PP is ever negative at home, but slotting Otzumer - who was excellent - in there today was a big difference from the Sheffield United game when our flat midfield had no idea how to get out and move the ball forward - or any belief.

Today we had some ideas, belief, desire, aggression and at times even urgency to get up the pitch when we had the chance. We had to defend a lot but there were avenues out of defence and into attack this time.
Oztumer played well. He did offer an outlet. But we had 26% possession and had two efforts on target. Today was the same as we’ve played every game at home except for Derby pratted about and we kept our defensive shape superbly. The early goal clearly contributing too. If anything it was our biggest rearguard effort at home yet.
How was that the same? We were absolute shite against Sheffield united and QPR and didn't look capable of anything.
Because Derby came onto us whereas those two invited us on and hit us on the counter. QPR especially. Derby stuck players forwards and played from the back. It was perfect for us. We treated it like an away game.
It is the best we’ve played at home but also the most defensive and counter punch type too.
Well, without putting too fine a point on it, I think you need to know the opinion of the average Derby fan (I happen to be resident amongst the fxckers).
As it was put to me by a Derby fan the day after the game: "We were bound to lose. We can't play against shit teams. Rotherham, Bolton, Whoever..."
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