More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by TonyDomingos » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:28 pm

For once, highlights worth watching!
https://youtu.be/tSVRAaN8Xbo
Às armas, às armas!
Sobre a terra, sobre o mar,
Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by Prufrock » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:40 pm

Two weeks ago I'd planned on going. Instead I forgot we were on until an update appeared while watching the Rags get turned over by Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle and friends.
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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:49 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:40 pm
Two weeks ago I'd planned on going. Instead I forgot we were on until an update appeared while watching the Rags get turned over by Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle and friends.
Yes things are bad when I don't consider going to this fixture, but could barely be bothered to activate the red button. Glad I did in the end, we deserved the win. Hoorah!

The 3-5-2 looks like the way forward. Noone looked really good at LWB. Get Ameobi in one of the two forward positions and it is the best chance of survival we have I feel.

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:56 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:49 pm
The 3-5-2 looks like the way forward. Noone looked really good at LWB. Get Ameobi in one of the two forward positions and it is the best chance of survival we have I feel.
The wingers are one of the problems with this system. Where do Ameobi, Noone, Buckley and Wildschut fit in? Noone may be able to fit in as LWB. Wildschut's injured, Buckley the fall guy, but so it goes.

However: I'm not sure Ameobi works as one of the front two. I know he's sort of been pushed that way before – first as the immediate post-Madine target man; then, when it was realised that he was bobbins at that, sometimes as the No.10 closest to the striker. With Magennis and Donaldson up front we have two physical problems for defenders; drop one and they soon learn to bully the other guy, knowing that Ameobi can't jump or head – they only have to get tight when and if he manages to Bambi it down between his feet facing goal.

Another problem we've had with a back three is the wingbacks.

Firstly, personnel: neither Taylor nor Grounds is anywhere near good enough in the opponents' half, Dyer isn't good enough in his own half. Hopefully Noone can use his diligent running (the statistics! the statistics!) on that side, and possibly even bung in a cross now and again. On the other side, we're relying either on Olkowski being comfortable in a position which arguably precipitated his vertiginous loss of form, or Little finding his way back from exile.

Secondly, deployment: any system which relies on getting wide defenders forward (be it wingbacks or a Spursy back four with high full-backs) is prey to the high ball in behind, down the wings. Remember us trying to fit in Morais at RWB in this division, and us getting crucified by teams playing it into the yawning gap between him and our lumbering centre-backs? The natural inclination is therefore to restrict your wingbacks' adventurousness, which eventually leads to a flat back five and even less chance of getting anything going forward. Hopefully Noone's natural forward-thinking will avoid this, but given the quality of our players and the mindset of the manager, it wouldn't be any surprise at all to see us play against Norwich or Leeds attempting to emulate this system, getting pinned back in our half and racking up another dispiriting defeat to nil with zero shots on target.

Not that I'm against it. And it might give us a chance of winning some games - I mean, who expected anything last night? Just tempering expectations; if it was as easy as 3-5-2, we'd never have lost ALF.

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:33 pm

^ Pretty much agree with all that DSB. Certainly in games where we should be on the front foot, I'd be happy with last night's 2 up top approach. In games where we're expecting to be under the cosh, I'd like to see Ameobi (or by some miracle Ozthumer) in a deeper role with a front one.

Nice to hear Donaldson acquitted himself well last night. Unlike BWFCi, I much prefer Magennis to him on what I've seen this season but let's hope he's about to have an Indian summer
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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:03 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:56 pm
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:49 pm
The 3-5-2 looks like the way forward. Noone looked really good at LWB. Get Ameobi in one of the two forward positions and it is the best chance of survival we have I feel.
The wingers are one of the problems with this system. Where do Ameobi, Noone, Buckley and Wildschut fit in? Noone may be able to fit in as LWB. Wildschut's injured, Buckley the fall guy, but so it goes.

However: I'm not sure Ameobi works as one of the front two. I know he's sort of been pushed that way before – first as the immediate post-Madine target man; then, when it was realised that he was bobbins at that, sometimes as the No.10 closest to the striker. With Magennis and Donaldson up front we have two physical problems for defenders; drop one and they soon learn to bully the other guy, knowing that Ameobi can't jump or head – they only have to get tight when and if he manages to Bambi it down between his feet facing goal.

Another problem we've had with a back three is the wingbacks.

Firstly, personnel: neither Taylor nor Grounds is anywhere near good enough in the opponents' half, Dyer isn't good enough in his own half. Hopefully Noone can use his diligent running (the statistics! the statistics!) on that side, and possibly even bung in a cross now and again. On the other side, we're relying either on Olkowski being comfortable in a position which arguably precipitated his vertiginous loss of form, or Little finding his way back from exile.

Secondly, deployment: any system which relies on getting wide defenders forward (be it wingbacks or a Spursy back four with high full-backs) is prey to the high ball in behind, down the wings. Remember us trying to fit in Morais at RWB in this division, and us getting crucified by teams playing it into the yawning gap between him and our lumbering centre-backs? The natural inclination is therefore to restrict your wingbacks' adventurousness, which eventually leads to a flat back five and even less chance of getting anything going forward. Hopefully Noone's natural forward-thinking will avoid this, but given the quality of our players and the mindset of the manager, it wouldn't be any surprise at all to see us play against Norwich or Leeds attempting to emulate this system, getting pinned back in our half and racking up another dispiriting defeat to nil with zero shots on target.

Not that I'm against it. And it might give us a chance of winning some games - I mean, who expected anything last night? Just tempering expectations; if it was as easy as 3-5-2, we'd never have lost ALF.
Yeah, I agree we have really struggled with 3-5-2 since we came back up, and it most likely isn't the magic solution to our issues this season. Birmingham suited us last night I felt because they like to operate without possession and play quite direct, not dissimilar to us. Teams who have the quality to pass and probe and pick out runners could easily embarrass us in a 3-5-2, but then again we are going to struggle against those kinds of teams anyway.

The main advantage this season using the 3-5-2, based on last night, is Noone. Because our wingers particularly on the left hand side don't score or assist much, and Parky gets them running backwards a lot defending, and Taylor doesn't get up and down like Robinson did last season, then Noone, who got up and down, and looked our most likely creator also, is almost two players in one in the 3-5-2 as opposed to the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. And also we get to play two strikers, which even if it is Donaldson and Magennis gives us slightly more chance to score.

Hard to see Buckley or Wildschut getting much of a look in if we stick to this system, and if Noone gets injured I am struggling who else can make it work on the left hand side. Olkowski, Little or Lowe I think would do ok at RWB. Olkowski might be effective as the right sided centre half, although Lowe dropped in there last night when Wilson got injured.

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by Prufrock » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:14 am

Hardest thing to do is score goals and we have a league 1 attack, and Madine purple patch aside have had a league one attack ever since we came back up. In that 18 months the only championship level forwards we've had have been Nadine, Ameobi and (bear with me) a fit Buckley. Even then they are at best bottom half championship players (and in Buckley's case only once he's put 5 games together which is tough given he can't go more than 6 games without getting injured).

I'm not a Madine apologist but he had a spell where he looked the part and scored 8 in 14. That 14 games represents 18% of the games we have played since promotion. In it Nadine on his own scored 13% of all the goals we've scored since, and the team scored a whopping 30% of all our goals since promotion.

That spell aside we average 0.65 goals a game. The only player we've paid a transfer fee for is a striker who was a keeper till he was 19.

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:51 pm

Sorry to miss all the fun of a win, ( I heard the game on Tower) but my internet hub blew up Tuesday and I;ve waited two days for a new one. All sorted now. Happy all round. :D
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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by malcd1 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:35 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:51 pm
Sorry to miss all the fun of a win, ( I heard the game on Tower) but my internet hub blew up Tuesday and I;ve waited two days for a new one. All sorted now. Happy all round. :D

No excuses, Tango. Hang your head in shame and don't let that happen again! :D
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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:16 pm

malcd1 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:35 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:51 pm
Sorry to miss all the fun of a win, ( I heard the game on Tower) but my internet hub blew up Tuesday and I;ve waited two days for a new one. All sorted now. Happy all round. :D

No excuses, Tango. Hang your head in shame and don't let that happen again! :D
Okay. :oops:
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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:17 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:51 pm
Sorry to miss all the fun of a win, ( I heard the game on Tower) but my internet hub blew up Tuesday and I;ve waited two days for a new one. All sorted now. Happy all round. :D
I'm not normally superstitious Tango, but might I request you stamp on your new hub and you request a new one?

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:14 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:17 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:51 pm
Sorry to miss all the fun of a win, ( I heard the game on Tower) but my internet hub blew up Tuesday and I;ve waited two days for a new one. All sorted now. Happy all round. :D
I'm not normally superstitious Tango, but might I request you stamp on your new hub and you request a new one
Nor am I A.T. (the thought did, however, occur...fleetingly!) .... :lol:
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:02 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:14 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:17 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:51 pm
Sorry to miss all the fun of a win, ( I heard the game on Tower) but my internet hub blew up Tuesday and I;ve waited two days for a new one. All sorted now. Happy all round. :D
I'm not normally superstitious Tango, but might I request you stamp on your new hub and you request a new one
Nor am I A.T. (the thought did, however, occur...fleetingly!) .... :lol:
You're Catholic. How can you not be superstitious!? :wink:
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頑張ってください

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Re: More Blues. Birmingham (A) 12.2.19

Post by TANGODANCER » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:35 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:02 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:14 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:17 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:51 pm
Sorry to miss all the fun of a win, ( I heard the game on Tower) but my internet hub blew up Tuesday and I;ve waited two days for a new one. All sorted now. Happy all round. :D
I'm not normally superstitious Tango, but might I request you stamp on your new hub and you request a new one
Nor am I A.T. (the thought did, however, occur...fleetingly!) .... :lol:
You're Catholic. How can you not be superstitious!? :wink:
Neither superstitious or surreptitious. I support Bolton so how can I be wrong? :lol:
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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