The next manager

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Re: The next manager

Post by jimbo » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:43 am

knobpolisher wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:32 am
I suspect Joey Barton may soon be available. :whack:
Great. Maybe we’ll then be able to get Ched Evans as well.

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Re: The next manager

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:05 am

knobpolisher wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:32 am
I suspect Joey Barton may soon be available. :whack:
You mean if they don't lock him up for the latest fiasco?
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Re: The next manager

Post by DJBlu » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:06 am

There was a rumour of this man coming in if a take over was complete with another consortium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Warburton

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Re: The next manager

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:12 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:02 am
The best argument for appointing David Lee would be if we get a transfer embargo, so he’d know better than most which of our U23s are near enough to risk in the first team.

But it’s a massive gap. Remember that Hall was the hope, and when he played for us he looked well short of the standard.

I appreciate Didsy’s efforts and maybe in time he’ll become a mighty manager of men, but if we appointed anyone else’s development manager many people would rightly wonder if we’d lost our marbles. Same for anyone with Kevin Davies’s managerial CV. Nolan you could possibly make an argument for but again if you transplant his managerial experience to a name you’d never seen on the back of a Bolton shirt then many would be deeply unimpressed.


This is it in my opinion. The question that needs to be asked when any ex-player falls under consideration to be our next manager is - would they be under consideration if they had no previous connection to our club? The answer for each of the above, to me anyway, is no, though I can at least see value in the idea of involving David Lee in any future first team set-up.

Granted, the previous connection might be the reason why they're shortlisted. But I place less importance in a manager "knowing the club" than I think some others do. We're not Barcelona or Ajax, unfortunately.

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Re: The next manager

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:05 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:06 am
There was a rumour of this man coming in if a take over was complete with another consortium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Warburton

Basran's consortium was planning to appoint him in a Director of Football role if they ever took control.

Would anyone be open to the model of a head coach working under a Director of Football? I think I would be, but then dropping to the third tier will probably prove too much of a barrier to that; I expect there are relatively few good Directors of Football around, and I don't think many will want to work at the level we'll soon be playing at.

That said, the consensus is that our next manager plays a more attractive style of football, and if Basran's consortium reignite their interest after we've been placed into administration - I'm assuming this scenario is still an option - then a "footballing", possibly, but not necessarily, foreign head coach working under Mark Warburton could work well (I'm thinking of Norwich City, Huddersfield Town, etc).

Failing that, of the old-school English managers I agree with the others who've suggested Grayson as the standout.

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Re: The next manager

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:37 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:12 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:02 am
The best argument for appointing David Lee would be if we get a transfer embargo, so he’d know better than most which of our U23s are near enough to risk in the first team.

But it’s a massive gap. Remember that Hall was the hope, and when he played for us he looked well short of the standard.

I appreciate Didsy’s efforts and maybe in time he’ll become a mighty manager of men, but if we appointed anyone else’s development manager many people would rightly wonder if we’d lost our marbles. Same for anyone with Kevin Davies’s managerial CV. Nolan you could possibly make an argument for but again if you transplant his managerial experience to a name you’d never seen on the back of a Bolton shirt then many would be deeply unimpressed.
This is it in my opinion. The question that needs to be asked when any ex-player falls under consideration to be our next manager is - would they be under consideration if they had no previous connection to our club? The answer for each of the above, to me anyway, is no, though I can at least see value in the idea of involving David Lee in any future first team set-up.

Granted, the previous connection might be the reason why they're shortlisted. But I place less importance in a manager "knowing the club" than I think some others do. We're not Barcelona or Ajax, unfortunately.
Aye. Thing is now, everyone presumably wants their own Solskjaer.

Nolan's record isn't terrible: 1.50ppg at Orient, 1.53ppg at Notts County, all at League Two.

At Orient he became the League's youngest gaffer, as player-manager, in January 2016; he won five of his first seven but only two of the next eight and was rather rudely busted back down in the April, the O's bringing in wizened troll Andy Hessenthaler over him to help their playoff push. It didn't work, he left that summer, they went down the following year.

In Jan 2017 he replaced John Sheridan at Notts County, who'd lost 10 on the bounce (scoring six and conceding 27) to slip from sixth to 22nd. They only lost two of his first nine games and dragged themselves up to lower midtable. The following season, helped again by Forest loanee Jorge Grant's goals (15 in 45 from midfield), they finished fifth but lost controversially to Cov in the playoffs. Then this season started with one point from five games and he was turfed.

So there's promise there, fair enough. And it's not beyond the realms of imagination that he rekindles the club's passion, proves himself at the club and rebuilds, like the last guy we got from Notts County. But Sam had won the league by a mile and had managed 250 league matches; it's also imaginable that Nobby would be elevated to a station above his ideas, a callow kid of 36 given a man's job in what might yet be very trying circumstances. If we wouldn't hire Harry Kewell, Shaun Derry or Darren Sarll, there's not a vastly better argument for hiring Nobby. Gary Caldwell has a better CV.
nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:05 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:06 am
There was a rumour of this man coming in if a take over was complete with another consortium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Warburton
Basran's consortium was planning to appoint him in a Director of Football role if they ever took control.

Would anyone be open to the model of a head coach working under a Director of Football? I think I would be, but then dropping to the third tier will probably prove too much of a barrier to that; I expect there are relatively few good Directors of Football around, and I don't think many will want to work at the level we'll soon be playing at.

That said, the consensus is that our next manager plays a more attractive style of football, and if Basran's consortium reignite their interest after we've been placed into administration - I'm assuming this scenario is still an option - then a "footballing", possibly, but not necessarily, foreign head coach working under Mark Warburton could work well (I'm thinking of Norwich City, Huddersfield Town, etc).

Failing that, of the old-school English managers I agree with the others who've suggested Grayson as the standout.
I don't mind the DoF thing at all as long as it's a long-term plan - not just a way to get another fly-by-night who just happens to be older. (Glares at Harry Redknapp.) It allows for greater flexibility in hiring (and firing) manager/coaches... to some extent: not every available gaffer will be happy to work under the constraints, but then again it depends on the people above them.

Interestingly, Warburton started as the Brentford guy "upstairs" to Uwe Rosler, but when Rosler went to Wigan in December 2013 – and asked Warburton to go with him - Warburton stayed but moved downstairs to the dugout, with Frank McParland coming in "upstairs" in a similar role to the one he (McParland) was hired by us to partner Sammy Lee. He took them up that summer and they were doing well the following season but in the January, with Brentford in fourth place, it emerged that owner Matthew Benham would be releasing Warburton (and McParland) to pursue a more mathematical Moneyball model... even if the club reached the Premier League. Curiously, he stayed on and they reached the playoffs but lost to Boro.

So I wouldn't be distraught with Warburton as DoF or for that matter Head Coach, but there's a whole load of ifs in the way...

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Re: The next manager

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:40 pm

Bury are currently enjoying one of their most exciting seasons in years under an ex player with no previous managerial experience. Sometimes it's just right person right time. So, whilst I wouldn't expect us to appoint some random ex player with no connection to us, I'd be chuffed to see us take a punt on an ex player who interviewed well and understood what was required.

There's no guarantees either way
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Re: The next manager

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:15 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:40 pm
Bury are currently enjoying one of their most exciting seasons in years under an ex player with no previous managerial experience. Sometimes it's just right person right time. So, whilst I wouldn't expect us to appoint some random ex player with no connection to us, I'd be chuffed to see us take a punt on an ex player who interviewed well and understood what was required.

There's no guarantees either way
Yeah, I suppose. Well, their best season in four, if you look at points per game. They got promoted from the basement division in 2011 and 2015 so it's hardly uncharted dreamland. Also, eight of their last 20 managers have been young (≤50-year-old) ex-players, two of whom have got them promoted, two of whom have got them relegated, so they're clearly just flinging shit at the wall :D

(also, and I can't state this clearly enough: f**k Bury)

You're right though, there are some good young managers. As with playing, if you're good enough, you're old enough. I'm simply not convinced that Didsy, Nobby or SKD are good enough.

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Re: The next manager

Post by piesrus » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:59 pm

Mmm. But what about Phil Brown or Mixu?
Let me throw a few others into the mix:
Graham Alexander from Salford City. Can we match his wages?
Nigel Pearson. Currently biding his time in Belgium. Dull but accomplished.
Danny Wilson. Local lad (Wiganer). Has a decent record.
Uwe Rosler. Great work at Brentford. Bad luck at Leeds and Wigan.
Mark Warburton. Linked with one potential bidder, but worth considerstion in his own right.

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Re: The next manager

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:37 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:48 pm
I've said in the past, and been lambasted for it, I don't know why we (at League One status in this country) don't tempt the manager of the third/fourth/fifth club in Norway/Finland/Switzerland/Exceteraland's Premier League.
That's what they pay headhunters/agents/scouts for. Isn't it?
Why would a coach with a foreign name be better? It makes no sense. I have no problem with a foreign coach/manager if it makes sense. But just aimlessly deciding we'll try and get any foreign manager makes little to no sense.

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Re: The next manager

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:41 am

Its way too early to decide because we a) don't know if we have a club next season and b) what shape it will be in.

I'd say its almost certain we'll need someone with considerable experience because whatever happens the hangover is going to be bad.

Modern fans are a nightmare because they think every managerial appointment should be some sort of project rather than just appointing a bloke with the right experience, knowledge and skills. Hence you get nonsense suggestions like David Lee...or other ex players. There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for just appointing an ex player unless they have the best experience, knowledge and skills for the job across the whole candidate base.

Why you would restrict yourself is beyond me. Whatever happens this club will need strong and experienced leadership as its going to be a very rocky few years I'd have thought.

Also I think some sort of director of football setup essential - BUT the scope of that role hugely depends on what happens. IF we still exist and have owners with some ambition, even if fairly modest initially a DoF is crucial to bring some stability and consistency to the club. If the owners are as potless as KA then a DoF who is responsible for youth development and first team integration will be key.

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Re: The next manager

Post by Jakerbeef » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:52 am

Jim_McDonuts wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:23 pm
piesrus wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:04 am
TonyDomingos wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:50 pm
piesrus wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:14 pm
Phil Brown? Mixu?

Feck me. A new poster. Just as the club's about to go under. :lol:
Timing is everything.
Indeed it is.
Welcome to the forum piesrus, good to have you here...
He might just be the bloke they´ve hired to turn the light off...

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Re: The next manager

Post by Hoboh » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:41 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:41 am
Its way too early to decide because we a) don't know if we have a club next season and b) what shape it will be in.

I'd say its almost certain we'll need someone with considerable experience because whatever happens the hangover is going to be bad.

Modern fans are a nightmare because they think every managerial appointment should be some sort of project rather than just appointing a bloke with the right experience, knowledge and skills. Hence you get nonsense suggestions like David Lee...or other ex players. There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for just appointing an ex player unless they have the best experience, knowledge and skills for the job across the whole candidate base.

Why you would restrict yourself is beyond me. Whatever happens this club will need strong and experienced leadership as its going to be a very rocky few years I'd have thought.

Also I think some sort of director of football setup essential - BUT the scope of that role hugely depends on what happens. IF we still exist and have owners with some ambition, even if fairly modest initially a DoF is crucial to bring some stability and consistency to the club. If the owners are as potless as KA then a DoF who is responsible for youth development and first team integration will be key.
Typical, no sense of adventure, just how the feck do you expect people to get on if you stick barriers in their way by dismissing them out of hand? Sounds like you don't like taking a calculated risk and something new, wonder where we've seen that before............?

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Re: The next manager

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:58 am

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:41 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:41 am
Its way too early to decide because we a) don't know if we have a club next season and b) what shape it will be in.

I'd say its almost certain we'll need someone with considerable experience because whatever happens the hangover is going to be bad.

Modern fans are a nightmare because they think every managerial appointment should be some sort of project rather than just appointing a bloke with the right experience, knowledge and skills. Hence you get nonsense suggestions like David Lee...or other ex players. There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for just appointing an ex player unless they have the best experience, knowledge and skills for the job across the whole candidate base.

Why you would restrict yourself is beyond me. Whatever happens this club will need strong and experienced leadership as its going to be a very rocky few years I'd have thought.

Also I think some sort of director of football setup essential - BUT the scope of that role hugely depends on what happens. IF we still exist and have owners with some ambition, even if fairly modest initially a DoF is crucial to bring some stability and consistency to the club. If the owners are as potless as KA then a DoF who is responsible for youth development and first team integration will be key.
Typical, no sense of adventure, just how the feck do you expect people to get on if you stick barriers in their way by dismissing them out of hand? Sounds like you don't like taking a calculated risk and something new, wonder where we've seen that before............?
A calculated risk? Do you want someone with the skills, knowledge and experience or just any old bloke who's played here before?

Just going with a foreign bloke or someone, anyone who used to happen to be here is madness. It makes no sense. IF there is Sam Allardyce type somewhere then sure...but who cares whether he played here previously or not. Its about their suitability...nothing else.

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Re: The next manager

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:13 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:00 pm
There's a fella managing Pune City in the Indian Super League who might be interested, even if it'd finally push Bruce Rioja into supporting Chorley instead. So, your turn...
And that's his level, too 8) Plenty tanning opportunities so I'm sure he'll be happy out there..

I'd rather us be nicking Jamie Vermiglio off of Chorley.
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Re: The next manager

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:27 am

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:41 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:41 am
Its way too early to decide because we a) don't know if we have a club next season and b) what shape it will be in.

I'd say its almost certain we'll need someone with considerable experience because whatever happens the hangover is going to be bad.

Modern fans are a nightmare because they think every managerial appointment should be some sort of project rather than just appointing a bloke with the right experience, knowledge and skills. Hence you get nonsense suggestions like David Lee...or other ex players. There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for just appointing an ex player unless they have the best experience, knowledge and skills for the job across the whole candidate base.

Why you would restrict yourself is beyond me. Whatever happens this club will need strong and experienced leadership as its going to be a very rocky few years I'd have thought.

Also I think some sort of director of football setup essential - BUT the scope of that role hugely depends on what happens. IF we still exist and have owners with some ambition, even if fairly modest initially a DoF is crucial to bring some stability and consistency to the club. If the owners are as potless as KA then a DoF who is responsible for youth development and first team integration will be key.
Typical, no sense of adventure, just how the feck do you expect people to get on if you stick barriers in their way by dismissing them out of hand? Sounds like you don't like taking a calculated risk and something new, wonder where we've seen that before............?
As ever, Insaney adopts the "Positively Fourth Street" fence to sit on. He might remember that right now we have no brass, no pies and a dread of postmen and e-mails, no players even queuing up to re-sign contracts and are waiting for the hour for relegation. I'm all for hope, but there's a tad of reality in there with it. "Cutting suit according to cloth" might be near it.
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: The next manager

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:30 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:27 am
Hoboh wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:41 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:41 am
Its way too early to decide because we a) don't know if we have a club next season and b) what shape it will be in.

I'd say its almost certain we'll need someone with considerable experience because whatever happens the hangover is going to be bad.

Modern fans are a nightmare because they think every managerial appointment should be some sort of project rather than just appointing a bloke with the right experience, knowledge and skills. Hence you get nonsense suggestions like David Lee...or other ex players. There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for just appointing an ex player unless they have the best experience, knowledge and skills for the job across the whole candidate base.

Why you would restrict yourself is beyond me. Whatever happens this club will need strong and experienced leadership as its going to be a very rocky few years I'd have thought.

Also I think some sort of director of football setup essential - BUT the scope of that role hugely depends on what happens. IF we still exist and have owners with some ambition, even if fairly modest initially a DoF is crucial to bring some stability and consistency to the club. If the owners are as potless as KA then a DoF who is responsible for youth development and first team integration will be key.
Typical, no sense of adventure, just how the feck do you expect people to get on if you stick barriers in their way by dismissing them out of hand? Sounds like you don't like taking a calculated risk and something new, wonder where we've seen that before............?
As ever, Insaney adopts the "Positively Fourth Street" fence to sit on. He might remember that right now we have no brass, no pies and a dread of postmen and e-mails, no players even queuing up to re-sign contracts and are waiting for the hour for relegation. I'm all for hope, but there's a tad of reality in there with it. "Cutting suit according to cloth" might be near it.
What? I said that its too early to really speculate because we don't even know we'll exist.

But IF we survive then we'll need experience. What we'll get will not be what we want. But rather experience in our situation than a rookie who might struggle at a normal club let alone a full certified member of the basket case group.

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Re: The next manager

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am

I guess it depends on the experience. I mean, Mourinho is an experienced coach, but not at a League One club with half a dozen senior professionals and an embargo.

What we'd need in that case is a fire-fighter, and it depends on the person more than the type. Sometimes a young buck can make more of a difference than an old cynic.

Burt, in general, I agree - and with the possible exception of Warburton, I still haven't seen anyone more qualified than Simon Grayson. Four promotions, 284 third-tier games and he's still only in his 40s.

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Re: The next manager

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:48 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am
I guess it depends on the experience. I mean, Mourinho is an experienced coach, but not at a League One club with half a dozen senior professionals and an embargo.

What we'd need in that case is a fire-fighter, and it depends on the person more than the type. Sometimes a young buck can make more of a difference than an old cynic.

Burt, in general, I agree - and with the possible exception of Warburton, I still haven't seen anyone more qualified than Simon Grayson. Four promotions, 284 third-tier games and he's still only in his 40s.
Yeah - we'll be likely (if at all) fighting a league one relegation campaign next year. So someone who knows what that's about and is prepared and up for the challenge will be what we'll need. Parky has those qualities but is clearly brow-beaten now. So will need a fresh head. If in the unlikely event we are bankrolled seriously then that might be the time to think of a DoF with a younger coach type model - one I think we should adopt eventually but not if we're scraping a squad together on beans and promises next year.

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Re: The next manager

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 pm

How do wanna be managers get experience?

Clearly, anyone with a good pedigree is going to be beyond us, so we're left with experienced folk who've tasted failure at least once (and more likely more) or someone with no management experience but who potentially has the attributes to be a success.

I'd rather a 'nonsense suggestion' than Steve bloody Cotterill any day of the week!
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