The next manager

[Hoboh]

We should stick with the 18 juniors we have and recruit more inexperienced players. Parkinson should be sacked and a combo committee of Lee/Phillips/Spooner/McCann should take over for the rest of the season, with the intention to forge a new spirit and playing camaraderie within the club, knowing we will be going down at the end of the season. The Renaissance starts next year... A proper Renaissance, not a makeshift pile of shit because we can't afford anything else, but a proper makeover and new start!

And potentially ruin the development of kids. Not a great idea. Spooner himself said its too early for most of these lads to be playing.

Also who do you think will keep the club alive till next season?

No offence BWFCi but we've had these arguments in the past regarding the youth, we should stop putting them in the closset.

One only has to look at what Ferguson did with Beckham, Scholes etc and we are not expecting that level of performance out of these kids, surely given the chance to play will develop them far faster than bench sitting? I would expect them to grasp the opportunity with open arms if they are serious about becoming Pro's.
Yes I except they need a few old heads around to learn from but given some of the recent Pro's they wouldn't learn much.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We should stick with the 18 juniors we have and recruit more inexperienced players. Parkinson should be sacked and a combo committee of Lee/Phillips/Spooner/McCann should take over for the rest of the season, with the intention to forge a new spirit and playing camaraderie within the club, knowing we will be going down at the end of the season. The Renaissance starts next year... A proper Renaissance, not a makeshift pile of shit because we can't afford anything else, but a proper makeover and new start!

And potentially ruin the development of kids. Not a great idea. Spooner himself said its too early for most of these lads to be playing.

Also who do you think will keep the club alive till next season?

No offence BWFCi but we've had these arguments in the past regarding the youth, we should stop putting them in the closset.

One only has to look at what Ferguson did with Beckham, Scholes etc and we are not expecting that level of performance out of these kids, surely given the chance to play will develop them far faster than bench sitting? I would expect them to grasp the opportunity with open arms if they are serious about becoming Pro's.
Yes I except they need a few old heads around to learn from but given some of the recent Pro's they wouldn't learn much.

Fxcking right on!!!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The kids will be even better served if Parkinson was kept well away from them... His dire, one formula, seriously pessimistic attitude is the very last thing they need introducing to.

[Hoboh]

The kids will be even better served if Parkinson was kept well away from them... His dire, one formula, seriously pessimistic attitude is the very last thing they need introducing to.

I'd let the people who are into their heads already deal with them, they know what each individual requires and at this level they don't need to be Einstein to work out how to mange either.

[BWFC_Insane]

We should stick with the 18 juniors we have and recruit more inexperienced players. Parkinson should be sacked and a combo committee of Lee/Phillips/Spooner/McCann should take over for the rest of the season, with the intention to forge a new spirit and playing camaraderie within the club, knowing we will be going down at the end of the season. The Renaissance starts next year... A proper Renaissance, not a makeshift pile of shit because we can't afford anything else, but a proper makeover and new start!

And potentially ruin the development of kids. Not a great idea. Spooner himself said its too early for most of these lads to be playing.

Also who do you think will keep the club alive till next season?

No offence BWFCi but we've had these arguments in the past regarding the youth, we should stop putting them in the closset.

One only has to look at what Ferguson did with Beckham, Scholes etc and we are not expecting that level of performance out of these kids, surely given the chance to play will develop them far faster than bench sitting? I would expect them to grasp the opportunity with open arms if they are serious about becoming Pro's.
Yes I except they need a few old heads around to learn from but given some of the recent Pro's they wouldn't learn much.

I think we're in agreement. Don't put them away - give them game time - but lets not flog them without getting some seniors in to help and protecting the ones still developing.

I think balance is important. Not just throwing out that team that played Saturday week in week out - some of them are ready to be involved - some less so. But I'm happy for them all to play a part - just can't be like that every week or else they will be burned out. And it isn't fair on their development that way.

[Prufrock]

You're off your head if you think a whole season of last Saturday is going to be anything other than ruinous for them.

I'd be asking David Lee and Jimmy Philips for their honest assessment of how many are ready to be in a first team squad and to play regularly. I'd then get a view from Parky (or a new manager) and try to agree a list. Then the rest of the budget would be limited to senior players to get that to to 18.

So let's say Edwards, Zouma, Brockbank, Darcy and Politic. Plus Weir and Earl. So you can have 11 seniors. But hopefully the budget is there so they're good ones.

[Hoboh]

You're off your head if you think a whole season of last Saturday is going to be anything other than ruinous for them.

I'd be asking David Lee and Jimmy Philips for their honest assessment of how many are ready to be in a first team squad and to play regularly. I'd then get a view from Parky (or a new manager) and try to agree a list. Then the rest of the budget would be limited to senior players to get that to to 18.

So let's say Edwards, Zouma, Brockbank, Darcy and Politic. Plus Weir and Earl. So you can have 11 seniors. But hopefully the budget is there so they're good ones.

Ahhh I know you put a relative view point from the cosseted side Pru and I do appreciate we need a few old heads, but I am suprised at the youth doing down the youth

[Prufrock]

First of all, time moves on. My younger brother (who is 5 years younger than I) would've been our oldest player on Sat!

But more important I don't think it's cosseting them. I absolutely agree we shouldn't waste this opportunity by filling a squad with journeymen cloggers who themselves aren't the answer. But even getting through 5 youth team players into the first team squad would be a huge vote of confidence in youth. I think it's too much to ask to expect the U18s to step up en masse, but more importantly it isn't going to help them, including the ones who are good enough. For the ones who aren't, they aren't going to learn anything getting destroyed every week. And the ones who are will learn more from playing regularly alongside some senior pros, learning how to win games when you are competitive instead of trying to get a clean sheet and hope Politic can score from the halfway line.

I'd also be giving the manager and academy a target of bringing through 2 from the junior teams into the first team squad each season.

For all that talk about "Fergie's Fledglings", that United team also contained Roy Keane, Pallister, Schmeichel, Irwin, McClair etc. I think Beckham et al learnt more from them than they would have from Ben Thornley and John O'Kane.

[jimbo]

First of all, time moves on. My younger brother (who is 5 years younger than I) would've been our oldest player on Sat!

But more important I don't think it's cosseting them. I absolutely agree we shouldn't waste this opportunity by filling a squad with journeymen cloggers who themselves aren't the answer. But even getting through 5 youth team players into the first team squad would be a huge vote of confidence in youth. I think it's too much to ask to expect the U18s to step up en masse, but more importantly it isn't going to help them, including the ones who are good enough. For the ones who aren't, they aren't going to learn anything getting destroyed every week. And the ones who are will learn more from playing regularly alongside some senior pros, learning how to win games when you are competitive instead of trying to get a clean sheet and hope Politic can score from the halfway line.

I'd also be giving the manager and academy a target of bringing through 2 from the junior teams into the first team squad each season.

For all that talk about "Fergie's Fledglings", that United team also contained Roy Keane, Pallister, Schmeichel, Irwin, McClair etc. I think Beckham et al learnt more from them than they would have from Ben Thornley and John O'Kane.

Stop being a snowflake lad. Back in my day you were old enough to be down’t pit at 6. Professional football at 17’s a doddle. Get em running up and down winter hill and they’ll soon be in shape.

[LeverEnd]

Saturday was a brilliant one off, no way those youngsters get through a full season without getting hammered regularly.
Keep them in or around the squad but get some experience in. Starting with O'Neill and Hobbs.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

One only has to look at what Ferguson did with Beckham, Scholes etc and we are not expecting that level of performance out of these kids, surely given the chance to play will develop them far faster than bench sitting?

Must we? OK.

He put them into a team that had won 77 of its previous 126 Premier League games, winning two titles and finishing third. He sold wantaway gobshite Paul Ince (having already bought his replacement Roy Keane), thirtysomething striker Mark Hughes (who'd scored 8 in 34 the previous season) and kick-and-run speedster Andrei Kanchelskis, but as Prufrock notes, the team was still stuffed with experience and leaders: Peter Schmeichel, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Denis Irwin, Keane, Eric Cantona and Andy Cole all started 20+ league games in that "breakthrough" 1995/96 season, all bar Pallister starting 29 or more.

And was it as much of a "breakthrough" as is now lazily supposed? There seems to have grown up this myth that they'd never played before, then suddenly they all walked in like Reservoir Dogs and started every game thereafter. Not true. In summer 1995 Beckham, Butt, Scholes and G-Nev were all 20, P-Nev 18; all had won the FA Youth Cup in 1992 and 1993 then been gradually introduced to the first team. The previous season, Butt had made 22 league appearances, 35 in all comps; G-Nev 18 league, 27 all comps. In the "breakthrough" 1995/96 season, Scholes only started 16 league games; none of them were anywhere near ever-present; Butt started 30 and GNev 31 but they were both rested at times. And that's in a 38-game league season, not a 46-er.

Our situation is a little different. Our lads, brave and wonderful and proud and excited and happy and delirious as they are, are simply not of the same calibre, obviously. They're coming into a team that has won 18 times in 92 league games (well, 94 now). Many of them haven't even excelled at U23 level, coming straight from the U18s. Seven of Saturday's starting XI (and 14 of the matchday 18) were teenagers, therefore younger than four-fifths of the Class of 92.

I would love to see them develop, indeed I will be saddened and perhaps annoyed if they don't. That's why I'd say we might only need eight to 10 "seniors" - to keep the more EFL-ready kids (Zouma, Edwards, Brockbank, Politic, Darcy) involved, as subs and starters in a rotating squad picked on merit not primogeniture. But let's not start the dangerous idea that just throwing them all in en masse is "worth a go".

[Hoboh]

One only has to look at what Ferguson did with Beckham, Scholes etc and we are not expecting that level of performance out of these kids, surely given the chance to play will develop them far faster than bench sitting?

Must we? OK.

He put them into a team that had won 77 of its previous 126 Premier League games, winning two titles and finishing third. He sold wantaway gobshite Paul Ince (having already bought his replacement Roy Keane), thirtysomething striker Mark Hughes (who'd scored 8 in 34 the previous season) and kick-and-run speedster Andrei Kanchelskis, but as Prufrock notes, the team was still stuffed with experience and leaders: Peter Schmeichel, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Denis Irwin, Keane, Eric Cantona and Andy Cole all started 20+ league games in that "breakthrough" 1995/96 season, all bar Pallister starting 29 or more.

And was it as much of a "breakthrough" as is now lazily supposed? There seems to have grown up this myth that they'd never played before, then suddenly they all walked in like Reservoir Dogs and started every game thereafter. Not true. In summer 1995 Beckham, Butt, Scholes and G-Nev were all 20, P-Nev 18; all had won the FA Youth Cup in 1992 and 1993 then been gradually introduced to the first team. The previous season, Butt had made 22 league appearances, 35 in all comps; G-Nev 18 league, 27 all comps. In the "breakthrough" 1995/96 season, Scholes only started 16 league games; none of them were anywhere near ever-present; Butt started 30 and GNev 31 but they were both rested at times. And that's in a 38-game league season, not a 46-er.

Our situation is a little different. Our lads, brave and wonderful and proud and excited and happy and delirious as they are, are simply not of the same calibre, obviously. They're coming into a team that has won 18 times in 92 league games (well, 94 now). Many of them haven't even excelled at U23 level, coming straight from the U18s. Seven of Saturday's starting XI (and 14 of the matchday 18) were teenagers, therefore younger than four-fifths of the Class of 92.

I would love to see them develop, indeed I will be saddened and perhaps annoyed if they don't. That's why I'd say we might only need eight to 10 "seniors" - to keep the more EFL-ready kids (Zouma, Edwards, Brockbank, Politic, Darcy) involved, as subs and starters in a rotating squad picked on merit not primogeniture. But let's not start the dangerous idea that just throwing them all in en masse is "worth a go".

I did allude to both points being relevent and if you look at the Man U example, at times 50% of the team was youth, okay maybe not at our youth ages but playing against much, much better opposition. I also see in any of the remaining seniors no Peter Schmeichel, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Denis Irwin, or a Cantona able to assist their development nor do I believe the current mangers mindset would be a help.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I did allude to both points being relevent and if you look at the Man U example, at times 50% of the team was youth, okay maybe not at our youth ages but playing against much, much better opposition.

Yeah, fair enough mate - although I was quoting you I was debunking a more general myth, or at least exaggeration/simplification. The Class of 92 was literally exceptional - ask any football fan to name the second-most prominent story of kids promoted en bloc and you’ll get a wide variety of much less noticeable examples... but those “kids” (or rather multiple medal-winning twentysomethings) had been around a while.

I also see in any of the remaining seniors no Peter Schmeichel, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Denis Irwin, or a Cantona able to assist their development

That’s the problem and one which might stop me joining the “kick ‘em out choir” regarding the remaining seniors. Wheater would have been an excellent role model for the defenders and the midfielders could learn some street-smarts from Gaz O’Neil and Jason Lowe.

nor do I believe the current mangers mindset would be a help.

Hmm. They seem happy with him, and there seems to have been a definite shift in style with more possession - last weekend we completed 330-odd passes, which may well be a record under Parky. I’m not saying he’s suddenly Rinus Michels but maybe just maybe the fearlessness of youth might help.

[TonyDomingos]

Saturday was a brilliant one off, no way those youngsters get through a full season without getting hammered regularly.
Keep them in or around the squad but get some experience in. Starting with O'Neill and Hobbs.

At that age, I was getting hammered most weekends. Never did me no harm.

[nicholaldo]

nor do I believe the current mangers mindset would be a help.

Hmm. They seem happy with him, and there seems to have been a definite shift in style with more possession - last weekend we completed 330-odd passes, which may well be a record under Parky. I’m not saying he’s suddenly Rinus Michels but maybe just maybe the fearlessness of youth might help.

We actually managed much more for brief period early last season, without success.

I share your hope that the fearlessness of youth might possibly help us change our approach. Clearly, Parky will never get us playing anything close to resembling anything even remotely similar to total football but we've spent most of his time here with a centre-back pairing of Wheater and Beevers. As effective as they were, neither were particularly proficient at playing it out, and that doesn't lend itself to a pleasing style of football. Neither did Noone's appalling first touch, and whilst Ameobi has talent, it never seemed to me that passing in triangles would get the best out of him.

I know the inevitable response to this is that he signed most of them and made the concious choice to regularly play them, and that's a fair enough criticism, but I would counter that with money being so scarce and relationships with agents being so fractured and registration embargoes being so restrictive, we just had to bring in what quality we could wherever we could find it.

One other thing that was obviously notable on Saturday, and an area where I think Parky perhaps deserves a greater share of criticism for his teams often lacking it, was the energy we had in our pressing at the top of the pitch. Darcy and Politic were phenomenal in that respect, and it was great to see the opposition put under such pressure.

[TKIZ!]

We should stick with the 18 juniors we have and recruit more inexperienced players. Parkinson should be sacked and a combo committee of Lee/Phillips/Spooner/McCann should take over for the rest of the season, with the intention to forge a new spirit and playing camaraderie within the club, knowing we will be going down at the end of the season. The Renaissance starts next year... A proper Renaissance, not a makeshift pile of shit because we can't afford anything else, but a proper makeover and new start!

And potentially ruin the development of kids. Not a great idea. Spooner himself said its too early for most of these lads to be playing.

Also who do you think will keep the club alive till next season?

No offence BWFCi but we've had these arguments in the past regarding the youth, we should stop putting them in the closset.

One only has to look at what Ferguson did with Beckham, Scholes etc and we are not expecting that level of performance out of these kids, surely given the chance to play will develop them far faster than bench sitting? I would expect them to grasp the opportunity with open arms if they are serious about becoming Pro's.
Yes I except they need a few old heads around to learn from but given some of the recent Pro's they wouldn't learn much.

Fxcking right on!!!

"Let's be having you!"

[irie Cee Bee]

The kids will be even better served if Parkinson was kept well away from them... His dire, one formula, seriously pessimistic attitude is the very last thing they need introducing to.

This I agree with 100%. Phil has gone through a lot but keep him away from the kids. He will lock them in a system which will destroy their flair. Ask Oz.

[Prufrock]

Parky hasn't destroyed Oz's flair. What's happened there is that the "Turkish Messi" is absolute wank.

[Harry Genshaw]

Parky hasn't destroyed Oz's flair. What's happened there is that the "Turkish Messi" is absolute wank.

I'm fairly sure that neither of those things are accurate

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Parky hasn't destroyed Oz's flair. What's happened there is that the "Turkish Messi" is absolute wank.

I'm fairly sure that neither of those things are accurate

I agree. I simply don't understand why the Parkinson regime is soooooo anti-Oztumer. It's not just baffling, but preposterous as well.