Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Jugs » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:58 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:10 am
Jugs wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:09 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:59 am
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:55 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:35 pm
Maybe we couldn’t afford him - stringent wage cap under embargo
Surely we find out from agents etc. what his salary demands are likely to be before approaching & asking the player to come & train with us or come on trial.

Otherwise its just a complete waste of everyone's time, the club, staff & player in question.
We definitely will have an idea. But for example - Billy Clarke trained over the summer with us. When Hill came in he was offered a salary but turned it down as he was looking for £2.5K per week and that is higher than we're allowed to pay.

Also more than he's worth. But whatever.

Fairly sure that Marshall was brought in for Hill/Flicker to have a look but they went with Dodoo instead. A wise choice if you ask me.
Questionable. He's usually done the business wherever he's been and he's got a great right peg.
Absolutely he's not a bad player. Would you rather have him or Dodoo? I think JD is at the level we're at pretty exceptional.
If you'd have asked me a month ago, before we'd signed Dodoo, I'd have taken Marshall. I'm happy with Dodoo now, but with Crawford's injury and IF we have room in our budget, I'd snap your hand off for Marshall, too.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:24 am

Jugs wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:58 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:10 am
Jugs wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:09 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:59 am
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:55 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:35 pm
Maybe we couldn’t afford him - stringent wage cap under embargo
Surely we find out from agents etc. what his salary demands are likely to be before approaching & asking the player to come & train with us or come on trial.

Otherwise its just a complete waste of everyone's time, the club, staff & player in question.
We definitely will have an idea. But for example - Billy Clarke trained over the summer with us. When Hill came in he was offered a salary but turned it down as he was looking for £2.5K per week and that is higher than we're allowed to pay.

Also more than he's worth. But whatever.

Fairly sure that Marshall was brought in for Hill/Flicker to have a look but they went with Dodoo instead. A wise choice if you ask me.
Questionable. He's usually done the business wherever he's been and he's got a great right peg.
Absolutely he's not a bad player. Would you rather have him or Dodoo? I think JD is at the level we're at pretty exceptional.
If you'd have asked me a month ago, before we'd signed Dodoo, I'd have taken Marshall. I'm happy with Dodoo now, but with Crawford's injury and IF we have room in our budget, I'd snap your hand off for Marshall, too.
I think it's entirely possible that BWFCi's "more than he's worth" was about Billy Clarke, not Marshall.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:44 am

Jugs wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:58 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:10 am
Jugs wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:09 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:59 am
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:55 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:35 pm
Maybe we couldn’t afford him - stringent wage cap under embargo
Surely we find out from agents etc. what his salary demands are likely to be before approaching & asking the player to come & train with us or come on trial.

Otherwise its just a complete waste of everyone's time, the club, staff & player in question.
We definitely will have an idea. But for example - Billy Clarke trained over the summer with us. When Hill came in he was offered a salary but turned it down as he was looking for £2.5K per week and that is higher than we're allowed to pay.

Also more than he's worth. But whatever.

Fairly sure that Marshall was brought in for Hill/Flicker to have a look but they went with Dodoo instead. A wise choice if you ask me.
Questionable. He's usually done the business wherever he's been and he's got a great right peg.
Absolutely he's not a bad player. Would you rather have him or Dodoo? I think JD is at the level we're at pretty exceptional.
If you'd have asked me a month ago, before we'd signed Dodoo, I'd have taken Marshall. I'm happy with Dodoo now, but with Crawford's injury and IF we have room in our budget, I'd snap your hand off for Marshall, too.
Sorry I meant Billy Clarke not Marshall.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Jugs » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:20 pm

Haha my mistake.

Anyway, I'd personally take an extra man now that Crawford is out and Hill admits he 'gambled with Verlinden's fitness' on Saturday. Preferably Marshall if poss.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:53 pm

According to Soccerway, before today 36 players had been in our matchday squads, and that's not including Joe Bunney.

So who's our embargo-limited 23, and who do we try to shift in January?
Screen Shot 2019-12-07 at 16.51.51.png
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:53 pm

EFL Regulations 6.1.3 and 6.1.4 state that a Championship club under a registration embargo is permitted up to 24 "Established Players".

An Established Player is then defined in Regulation 6.4.1 as:

"any Player registered with the Championship Club at the time of the imposition of the Embargo, who:

(a) was 21 years of age or older as at the 30 June immediately prior to the commencement of the Season in which the Club is subject to the Embargo; and

(b) has been named in the starting eleven on the Team Sheet (and started the game) at least five times in:

(i) League Matches;

(ii) matches in the EFL Cup, EFL Trophy; and/or

(iii) matches in the Football Association Challenge Cup,

for that Championship Club (at any time);"


Regulation 6.4.2 defines an Established Player as:

"any Player registered with the Club whilst subject to the Embargo (excluding Academy Players, Players registered pursuant to Rule 6.1.5, Scholars and any Emergency Goalkeeper Loan) pursuant to this Rule 6."

Now, as stated in the definition, the above applies only to Championship clubs, of which we aren't one, but I suppose it's a not unreasonable assumption to think the above “Established Player” definition, or something very similar to it, would apply to the registration embargo we're currently in.

If we think the limit for us is 23, then the above definition would mean the following players all currently take up one place in our registration-embargo restricted squad:

Ben Alnwick
Remi Matthews
Josh Emmanuel
Jack Hobbs
Jake Wright
Yoan Zouma
Adam Chicksen
Jason Lowe
Liam Bridcutt
Luke Murphy
Ali Crawford
James Weir
Joe Dodoo
Will Buckley
Chris O'Grady
Daryl Murphy
Connor Hall

Whilst Liam Edwards doesn't yet meet the “Established Player” definition due to him only starting three competitive first-team matches for us, I think it's probably safe to also assume that we intend for him to eventually hold a place himself. He's 23-years-old and has just signed a long-term contract. At that age and with that confidence having been placed in him, he surely won't be sent out on loan again. The same will presumably also apply to Joe Bunney and Josh Earl, who will meet the criteria as soon as they play the relevant number of matches for us.

So we have, effectively, 20 “Established Players” who either meet the above definition or who very soon will. This would make sense because if the definition was to apply as above but to players aged 18 or over, we'd have 25 who meet those criteria (the 20 above, plus Brockbank, Politic, Darcy, Brown, and Verlinden), which we think would be too many.

Of those players who count, I think Alnwick, Earl, Zouma, Weir, and Hall are prime candidates to be moved on / not return (in Alnwick's case we might possibly be able to come to some sort of special dispensation arrangement with the EFL if he isn't in a position to play football). Earl because, if Edwards and Bunney are nearing full fitness, it might make sense to prioritise other positions, and Zouma because he would probably benefit from going out on loan to a League Two club and also because I think Hill will probably feel he can bring in a centre-back he can be more comfortable relying on (plus possibly also having Edwards back involved). Weir is simply a given – in his case, it's probably just a matter of if we can find him another club. Ditto, Hall.

If we do manage to shift the above five, and we are restricted to registering 23 qualifying players meeting either the criteria referred to or something like it, then that will leave us with seven places to fill. And if we're to be creative, it might be in our interest to target promising young players under the age of 21, either as permanent signings or, more realistically, short-term loan signings, as they wouldn't meet the criteria. We would then be able to pad out the squad with players who do.

I get the feeling that despite their injuries we might try and keep hold of Buckley and Bridcutt for the second half of the season. Simply because I think Hill will be tempted to offer Buckley another short-term contract if he's close to returning to match fitness as he's a player he likes and is familiar working with, and because Bridcutt, if fit, is a class act. Perhaps contrary to popular opinion, I also believe we've got a good chance of retaining Verlinden. He has great potential but there are still aspects of his game which need to improve. He will no doubt return to his parent club so their new manager can take a look at him but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they feel he'd benefit from another few months playing regularly here. It would seem to be in everyone's interest for Wright to re-sign as well.

Obviously though, this is all on the basis that the restrictions are what we think they are. Given there is nothing set out in stone in the Regulations the likelihood is that much falls within the EFL's discretion and they're under significant pressure from other clubs to ensure we're punished for perceived injustices. With that in mind, I can't imagine they're in the mood to be chartiable.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:28 pm

Thanks for that Nicko, precisely the kind of analysis I was hoping somebody would do. I don’t necessarily agree with all your predictions re players but it’s interesting food for thought.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:35 pm

Is Darron Gibson an outrageous suggestion? To my knowledge he's still without a club and I'd imagine he'd be a very good player at this level. Obviously comes with significant off-field baggage and he may be miles away from being fit enough.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:29 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:35 pm
Is Darron Gibson an outrageous suggestion? To my knowledge he's still without a club and I'd imagine he'd be a very good player at this level. Obviously comes with significant off-field baggage and he may be miles away from being fit enough.
Not outrageous but probably impractical for us. He's the kind of chap you could give a contract to until the end of the season, to get fit and prove his worth. However, in our current situation, I dont think we have the luxury of having a squad place taken up by someone who isn't ready now and who might never get back to league 1/championship level football.
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:51 am

Nixon is suggesting Wheater may be coming back. Obviously we need defensive players in and he's a club legend, but I'm not sure he's the saviour at this point in his career.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by boltonboris » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:57 am

Legend? Wheater?

Long serving, yes
Legend, not in a million years

(IMHO opinion)
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:02 am

boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:57 am
Legend? Wheater?

Long serving, yes
Legend, not in a million years

(IMHO opinion)
Legend or not or whatever he is - I'll be horrified if we sign him.

I liked him here - even with his obvious shortcomings - but I really do not feel he is the right fit for where we are, or where we want to go. An ageing pisshead who turns slower than the titanic is just not who we need. I'd far rather give Edwards/Brockbank experience of playing.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:25 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:02 am
boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:57 am
Legend? Wheater?

Long serving, yes
Legend, not in a million years

(IMHO opinion)
Legend or not or whatever he is - I'll be horrified if we sign him.

I liked him here - even with his obvious shortcomings - but I really do not feel he is the right fit for where we are, or where we want to go. An ageing pisshead who turns slower than the titanic is just not who we need. I'd far rather give Edwards/Brockbank experience of playing.
Couldn't agree more. A move for Wheater would make no sense to me.
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by boltonboris » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am

100%

We already have better defenders, who are younger, fitter, stronger, faster and have more of a will to win, which he has just never had.
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by DJBlu » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:44 am

boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am
100%

We already have better defenders, who are younger, fitter, stronger, faster and have more of a will to win, which he has just never had.
Really? Who? Edwards or Zouma? Wasn't he called a liability a few weeks ago.

Wheater is a big character that can replace Bridcutt as captain.

The man lives and breathes Bolton and will put himself on the line for the club. Saying he doesn't have a will to win is an insult.

We're bottom of the league and have conceded some absolutely atrocious goals.

If David Wheater coming back doesn't lift spirits then we're fecking doomed.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:49 am

DJBlu wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:44 am
boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am
100%

We already have better defenders, who are younger, fitter, stronger, faster and have more of a will to win, which he has just never had.
Really? Who? Edwards or Zouma? Wasn't he called a liability a few weeks ago.

Wheater is a big character that can replace Bridcutt as captain.

The man lives and breathes Bolton and will put himself on the line for the club. Saying he doesn't have a will to win is an insult.

We're bottom of the league and have conceded some absolutely atrocious goals.

If David Wheater coming back doesn't lift spirits then we're fecking doomed.
Its living in the past with a has been - arguably a never has been. We're going down and need to build towards next season. Our wage restrictions and general situation mean we need to build a younger, sustainable side that can progress together.

Wheater is none of those. He also is not very good, never very fit and slower than any defender we have by a country mile.

I'd also like to point out that for much of Wheater's time here we were bottom of the league and conceding atrocious goals.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by DJBlu » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:55 am

Wright.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:57 am

Personally I would like to see us develop Zouma (pace and strength in abundance) and Edwards. Having said that it should be alongside an experienced defender - Wrights issues all seem to be when he plays a few games in a week (which we will be doing a lot of after this month) - I can see an argument for Wheater replacing him. I think he has a will to win - on balance I would have welcomed his signing - however he’s not been ripping up trees in league two- I’m also worried that we seem to be making signings and appointments based on affiliation to Bolton. It’s a big bloody world and I’m concerned we are narrowing our searches to our detriment.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:59 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:57 am
Personally I would like to see us develop Zouma (pace and strength in abundance) and Edwards. Having said that it should be alongside an experienced defender - Wrights issues all seem to be when he plays a few games in a week (which we will be doing a lot of after this month) - I can see an argument for Wheater replacing him. I think he has a will to win - on balance I would have welcomed his signing - however he’s not been ripping up trees in league two- I’m also worried that we seem to be making signings and appointments based on affiliation to Bolton. It’s a big bloody world and I’m concerned we are narrowing our searches to our detriment.
You think David Wheater who 3 years ago couldn't manage 3 games in a week and had to spend long periods not training because of his dodgy back would be an answer to a congested fixture period?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:25 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:49 am
DJBlu wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:44 am
boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am
100%

We already have better defenders, who are younger, fitter, stronger, faster and have more of a will to win, which he has just never had.
Really? Who? Edwards or Zouma? Wasn't he called a liability a few weeks ago.

Wheater is a big character that can replace Bridcutt as captain.

The man lives and breathes Bolton and will put himself on the line for the club. Saying he doesn't have a will to win is an insult.

We're bottom of the league and have conceded some absolutely atrocious goals.

If David Wheater coming back doesn't lift spirits then we're fecking doomed.
Its living in the past with a has been - arguably a never has been. We're going down and need to build towards next season. Our wage restrictions and general situation mean we need to build a younger, sustainable side that can progress together.

Wheater is none of those. He also is not very good, never very fit and slower than any defender we have by a country mile.

I'd also like to point out that for much of Wheater's time here we were bottom of the league and conceding atrocious goals.
Difficult to argue that Wheater wasn't good for us in my opinion. Is he what we need now? Probably not, but I can't imagine we're going to have lots of better options either.

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