Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by LeverEnd » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:27 pm

The answer to what you ask? No.
Worse than Wright? Doubt it.
And he might lift the squad a bit and remember some of those Parky set piece routines!
He's obviously past his best and limited, but people said that before the last promotion season and he did well.
He might add something and I think the insulting nature of some of the comments on here and particularly on Twitter are a bit sad.
...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:34 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:25 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:49 am
DJBlu wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:44 am
boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am
100%

We already have better defenders, who are younger, fitter, stronger, faster and have more of a will to win, which he has just never had.
Really? Who? Edwards or Zouma? Wasn't he called a liability a few weeks ago.

Wheater is a big character that can replace Bridcutt as captain.

The man lives and breathes Bolton and will put himself on the line for the club. Saying he doesn't have a will to win is an insult.

We're bottom of the league and have conceded some absolutely atrocious goals.

If David Wheater coming back doesn't lift spirits then we're fecking doomed.
Its living in the past with a has been - arguably a never has been. We're going down and need to build towards next season. Our wage restrictions and general situation mean we need to build a younger, sustainable side that can progress together.

Wheater is none of those. He also is not very good, never very fit and slower than any defender we have by a country mile.

I'd also like to point out that for much of Wheater's time here we were bottom of the league and conceding atrocious goals.
Difficult to argue that Wheater wasn't good for us in my opinion. Is he what we need now? Probably not, but I can't imagine we're going to have lots of better options either.
He was good for us in a certain sense. I liked him. He always seemed to be whole hearted. Not a model professional, but good for spirits. But absolutely the wrong profile for now IMHO.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by boltonboris » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:36 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:44 am
boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am
100%

We already have better defenders, who are younger, fitter, stronger, faster and have more of a will to win, which he has just never had.
Really? Who? Edwards or Zouma? Wasn't he called a liability a few weeks ago.

Wheater is a big character that can replace Bridcutt as captain.

The man lives and breathes Bolton and will put himself on the line for the club. Saying he doesn't have a will to win is an insult.

We're bottom of the league and have conceded some absolutely atrocious goals.

If David Wheater coming back doesn't lift spirits then we're fecking doomed.
This bloke, rightly or wrongly, was a driving factor in players walking away from their contracts at our club, culminating in us having to start the season with 17 year olds.

The only spirits he'll lift will be in a glass at Fanny's after the match
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:38 pm

Ah, the dear old binary internet.

Wheater was a very important player here on and off the pitch, and some of the revisionism here is genuinely shocking.

However, he is now old and was never much more than slow.

Then again, it hardly feels like Jake Wright (to pick on just one underachiever) is vastly better, so if the sums add up - one out one in, contracted to the end of the season then let's see - then I don't think he would be the worst signing in the world. Indeed it's not hard to imagine him being as dominant (at both ends) in the Fourth Division as he was in the Third, before which plenty were also writing him off. JSL.

IDK. Now that the lights seem to be going out on any hopes of avoiding relegation (not to mention regaining promotion, among some of the moister panties hereon) we need to tilt our thinking away from The Impossible Dream to The Sustainable Future. That doesn't mean there's no room for older heads – I doubt many here would be turfing out Daryl because of his birthdate – but I can certainly see the strong argument for blooding yer Brockbanks and Zoumas and Edwardseses.

One more thing. If we play Wheater we need a fast partner. Who's quickest and slowest across the grass? My hunch would be the onomatopoeically-predictive, nominatively-determined Zouma is fastest - but speed over the grass is compromised when you're galooting about making errors in game-reading...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:51 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:38 pm
Ah, the dear old binary internet.

Wheater was a very important player here on and off the pitch, and some of the revisionism here is genuinely shocking.

However, he is now old and was never much more than slow.

Then again, it hardly feels like Jake Wright (to pick on just one underachiever) is vastly better, so if the sums add up - one out one in, contracted to the end of the season then let's see - then I don't think he would be the worst signing in the world. Indeed it's not hard to imagine him being as dominant (at both ends) in the Fourth Division as he was in the Third, before which plenty were also writing him off. JSL.

IDK. Now that the lights seem to be going out on any hopes of avoiding relegation (not to mention regaining promotion, among some of the moister panties hereon) we need to tilt our thinking away from The Impossible Dream to The Sustainable Future. That doesn't mean there's no room for older heads – I doubt many here would be turfing out Daryl because of his birthdate – but I can certainly see the strong argument for blooding yer Brockbanks and Zoumas and Edwardseses.

One more thing. If we play Wheater we need a fast partner. Who's quickest and slowest across the grass? My hunch would be the onomatopoeically-predictive, nominatively-determined Zouma is fastest - but speed over the grass is compromised when you're galooting about making errors in game-reading...
I don't think Jake Wright is "underachieving". The way we play means we're open, especially when all the midfield are banned or injured.

The idea that Wheater, struggling at Oldham with their fans on his back, comes back here and is better than what we have is to me the ultimate in rose tinted glasses.

As a club we need to rebuild on a new blueprint. That doesn't mean old heads aren't welcome, but contrast Daryl Murphy who at 36 seems fitter than Wheater was at 28! And then look at professionalism and example....its a no brainer NO for me.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:53 pm

Right then, we protect Wheater by rehiring Karl Henry...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Jugs » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:09 pm

I loved Wheater. He's also got goals in him.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:22 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:51 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:38 pm
Ah, the dear old binary internet.

Wheater was a very important player here on and off the pitch, and some of the revisionism here is genuinely shocking.

However, he is now old and was never much more than slow.

Then again, it hardly feels like Jake Wright (to pick on just one underachiever) is vastly better, so if the sums add up - one out one in, contracted to the end of the season then let's see - then I don't think he would be the worst signing in the world. Indeed it's not hard to imagine him being as dominant (at both ends) in the Fourth Division as he was in the Third, before which plenty were also writing him off. JSL.

IDK. Now that the lights seem to be going out on any hopes of avoiding relegation (not to mention regaining promotion, among some of the moister panties hereon) we need to tilt our thinking away from The Impossible Dream to The Sustainable Future. That doesn't mean there's no room for older heads – I doubt many here would be turfing out Daryl because of his birthdate – but I can certainly see the strong argument for blooding yer Brockbanks and Zoumas and Edwardseses.

One more thing. If we play Wheater we need a fast partner. Who's quickest and slowest across the grass? My hunch would be the onomatopoeically-predictive, nominatively-determined Zouma is fastest - but speed over the grass is compromised when you're galooting about making errors in game-reading...
I don't think Jake Wright is "underachieving". The way we play means we're open, especially when all the midfield are banned or injured.

The idea that Wheater, struggling at Oldham with their fans on his back, comes back here and is better than what we have is to me the ultimate in rose tinted glasses.

As a club we need to rebuild on a new blueprint. That doesn't mean old heads aren't welcome, but contrast Daryl Murphy who at 36 seems fitter than Wheater was at 28! And then look at professionalism and example....its a no brainer NO for me.
The idea that we're in a position to attract young players with ability is also fanciful in the extreme. Yes we need a new blueprint, but given we're under an extremely restrictive embargo, the young talent will need to come from within. We have a few reasonably talented young players on our books, but nowhere near enough to put competitive teams out in either leagues one or two, thus we need to bulk out our squad with older journeymen.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:27 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:22 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:51 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:38 pm
Ah, the dear old binary internet.

Wheater was a very important player here on and off the pitch, and some of the revisionism here is genuinely shocking.

However, he is now old and was never much more than slow.

Then again, it hardly feels like Jake Wright (to pick on just one underachiever) is vastly better, so if the sums add up - one out one in, contracted to the end of the season then let's see - then I don't think he would be the worst signing in the world. Indeed it's not hard to imagine him being as dominant (at both ends) in the Fourth Division as he was in the Third, before which plenty were also writing him off. JSL.

IDK. Now that the lights seem to be going out on any hopes of avoiding relegation (not to mention regaining promotion, among some of the moister panties hereon) we need to tilt our thinking away from The Impossible Dream to The Sustainable Future. That doesn't mean there's no room for older heads – I doubt many here would be turfing out Daryl because of his birthdate – but I can certainly see the strong argument for blooding yer Brockbanks and Zoumas and Edwardseses.

One more thing. If we play Wheater we need a fast partner. Who's quickest and slowest across the grass? My hunch would be the onomatopoeically-predictive, nominatively-determined Zouma is fastest - but speed over the grass is compromised when you're galooting about making errors in game-reading...
I don't think Jake Wright is "underachieving". The way we play means we're open, especially when all the midfield are banned or injured.

The idea that Wheater, struggling at Oldham with their fans on his back, comes back here and is better than what we have is to me the ultimate in rose tinted glasses.

As a club we need to rebuild on a new blueprint. That doesn't mean old heads aren't welcome, but contrast Daryl Murphy who at 36 seems fitter than Wheater was at 28! And then look at professionalism and example....its a no brainer NO for me.
The idea that we're in a position to attract young players with ability is also fanciful in the extreme. Yes we need a new blueprint, but given we're under an extremely restrictive embargo, the young talent will need to come from within. We have a few reasonably talented young players on our books, but nowhere near enough to put competitive teams out in either leagues one or two, thus we need to bulk out our squad with older journeymen.
We're not going to get established players - but I think we've got to be inventive and invest in up and coming talents. I'm not saying we don't want journeymen or experienced heads - I just think we pick those carefully. Wheater has done his time here. Move on.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by boltonboris » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:27 pm

even ones who are struggling to cut it in League 2 already?
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:52 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:27 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:22 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:51 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:38 pm
Ah, the dear old binary internet.

Wheater was a very important player here on and off the pitch, and some of the revisionism here is genuinely shocking.

However, he is now old and was never much more than slow.

Then again, it hardly feels like Jake Wright (to pick on just one underachiever) is vastly better, so if the sums add up - one out one in, contracted to the end of the season then let's see - then I don't think he would be the worst signing in the world. Indeed it's not hard to imagine him being as dominant (at both ends) in the Fourth Division as he was in the Third, before which plenty were also writing him off. JSL.

IDK. Now that the lights seem to be going out on any hopes of avoiding relegation (not to mention regaining promotion, among some of the moister panties hereon) we need to tilt our thinking away from The Impossible Dream to The Sustainable Future. That doesn't mean there's no room for older heads – I doubt many here would be turfing out Daryl because of his birthdate – but I can certainly see the strong argument for blooding yer Brockbanks and Zoumas and Edwardseses.

One more thing. If we play Wheater we need a fast partner. Who's quickest and slowest across the grass? My hunch would be the onomatopoeically-predictive, nominatively-determined Zouma is fastest - but speed over the grass is compromised when you're galooting about making errors in game-reading...
I don't think Jake Wright is "underachieving". The way we play means we're open, especially when all the midfield are banned or injured.

The idea that Wheater, struggling at Oldham with their fans on his back, comes back here and is better than what we have is to me the ultimate in rose tinted glasses.

As a club we need to rebuild on a new blueprint. That doesn't mean old heads aren't welcome, but contrast Daryl Murphy who at 36 seems fitter than Wheater was at 28! And then look at professionalism and example....its a no brainer NO for me.
The idea that we're in a position to attract young players with ability is also fanciful in the extreme. Yes we need a new blueprint, but given we're under an extremely restrictive embargo, the young talent will need to come from within. We have a few reasonably talented young players on our books, but nowhere near enough to put competitive teams out in either leagues one or two, thus we need to bulk out our squad with older journeymen.
We're not going to get established players - but I think we've got to be inventive and invest in up and coming talents. I'm not saying we don't want journeymen or experienced heads - I just think we pick those carefully. Wheater has done his time here. Move on.
How do you propose we go about investing in up and coming talents?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:05 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:27 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:22 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:51 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:38 pm
Ah, the dear old binary internet.

Wheater was a very important player here on and off the pitch, and some of the revisionism here is genuinely shocking.

However, he is now old and was never much more than slow.

Then again, it hardly feels like Jake Wright (to pick on just one underachiever) is vastly better, so if the sums add up - one out one in, contracted to the end of the season then let's see - then I don't think he would be the worst signing in the world. Indeed it's not hard to imagine him being as dominant (at both ends) in the Fourth Division as he was in the Third, before which plenty were also writing him off. JSL.

IDK. Now that the lights seem to be going out on any hopes of avoiding relegation (not to mention regaining promotion, among some of the moister panties hereon) we need to tilt our thinking away from The Impossible Dream to The Sustainable Future. That doesn't mean there's no room for older heads – I doubt many here would be turfing out Daryl because of his birthdate – but I can certainly see the strong argument for blooding yer Brockbanks and Zoumas and Edwardseses.

One more thing. If we play Wheater we need a fast partner. Who's quickest and slowest across the grass? My hunch would be the onomatopoeically-predictive, nominatively-determined Zouma is fastest - but speed over the grass is compromised when you're galooting about making errors in game-reading...
I don't think Jake Wright is "underachieving". The way we play means we're open, especially when all the midfield are banned or injured.

The idea that Wheater, struggling at Oldham with their fans on his back, comes back here and is better than what we have is to me the ultimate in rose tinted glasses.

As a club we need to rebuild on a new blueprint. That doesn't mean old heads aren't welcome, but contrast Daryl Murphy who at 36 seems fitter than Wheater was at 28! And then look at professionalism and example....its a no brainer NO for me.
The idea that we're in a position to attract young players with ability is also fanciful in the extreme. Yes we need a new blueprint, but given we're under an extremely restrictive embargo, the young talent will need to come from within. We have a few reasonably talented young players on our books, but nowhere near enough to put competitive teams out in either leagues one or two, thus we need to bulk out our squad with older journeymen.
We're not going to get established players - but I think we've got to be inventive and invest in up and coming talents. I'm not saying we don't want journeymen or experienced heads - I just think we pick those carefully. Wheater has done his time here. Move on.
How do you propose we go about investing in up and coming talents?
Initially probably looking at local talent for development, scouring non league for up and coming talent - doing it very early - not saying its easy and there is an attrition rate to both activities. But ultimately to survive we need to develop sellable assets and we probably need to do it quicker than you'd want - I don't know how long FV can fund us but I suspect at a level we'd want to be at not for too long.

Look at our past 6/7 seasons since the premiership - eventually unless you hit the 1 in a thousand magic combination of manager and players (see Sheffield United or us under Rioch) we were sliding down further and further, increasing the debts, patching up cracks with more journeymen signings - going down further and further and ending up in a bigger hole. Even when we won promotion from league one to halt the slide we had an ageing team in the championship that struggled. The recipe for success now has to be a production line of players. Our own through the academy, bringing in young players who have faltered elsewhere and picking off talents from non league who others haven't yet spotted. It isn't going to be straightforwards nor easy and yes we'll still need a core of experience and traditional frees and loans alongside that.

But for me everything we do should be focussed on that system of bringing sellable assets through. We've appointed a recruitment bloke to seemingly start that operation up recently which is a good sign.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:08 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:59 am
officer_dibble wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:57 am
Personally I would like to see us develop Zouma (pace and strength in abundance) and Edwards. Having said that it should be alongside an experienced defender - Wrights issues all seem to be when he plays a few games in a week (which we will be doing a lot of after this month) - I can see an argument for Wheater replacing him. I think he has a will to win - on balance I would have welcomed his signing - however he’s not been ripping up trees in league two- I’m also worried that we seem to be making signings and appointments based on affiliation to Bolton. It’s a big bloody world and I’m concerned we are narrowing our searches to our detriment.
You think David Wheater who 3 years ago couldn't manage 3 games in a week and had to spend long periods not training because of his dodgy back would be an answer to a congested fixture period?
Well no but he did resolve his fitness problems - played in a majority of games in the 3 following seasons. But I’m also not saying we should sign him - he’s a direct comparison to Wright for me who has played a lot less football than Wheater in the last 3 years. Ultimately I don’t know who is fitter but I imagine at their peak they are both reasonable centre halves at this level.

And yeah alongside Zouma having some experience works for me.

But I’m still not advocating signing him - I’m sure there are centre halves who don’t live in Bolton available...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:09 pm

That's a lovely system, BWFCi. I fully agree we should work towards it.

But we need a team out next season, or even this season. And The Kids - even geniuses - need older players to learn from. We saw early this season how well you do with just kids. Rochdale are lauded for their production line but they're only gettuing a point per game. As ever, maybe it's not just one simple answer.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:16 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:09 pm
That's a lovely system, BWFCi. I fully agree we should work towards it.

But we need a team out next season, or even this season. And The Kids - even geniuses - need older players to learn from. We saw early this season how well you do with just kids. Rochdale are lauded for their production line but they're only gettuing a point per game. As ever, maybe it's not just one simple answer.
I said that it needed a core of experience to go with and that you can't rely on kids - there is a balance to be struck.

But this season we have three young centre backs - on our books plus Wright (and Hobbs??) - given we all know this season is a bust don't we want to develop and give experience to those centre backs?

Don't we want to see if one or any are good enough to put regulars next season?

Next season is ALL about results but in the background we have to look after the long term - and make sure that we're not building our foundations on quicksand again. If we aren't developing talent eventually we become unsustainable. The long term priority (and necessity) over everything else is to ensure that doesn't happen.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:41 pm

Hobbs, fecking hell, forgot about him. Who signed his medical off, stevie wonder?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by truewhite15 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:54 pm

We've got Hobbs and Wright as senior centre backs. Earl is a left back who can play at centre back. We've got Edwards, Brockbank, Zouma, Senior as juniors.

Earl and Wright may well be going back to their parent clubs this month. Hobbs hasn't been seen for months and must surely be being considered for release. That's our three most senior centre backs gone by February. Anybody else confident going through the next six months with four promising but unproven kids as our defensive options?

If Wheater, who if not a club legend is undoubtedly a cult icon, is a defensive leader and only left this summer very reluctantly, is available and wants to return, then assuming he replaces one of the three senior defenders I'm all for it.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by TonyDomingos » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:13 pm

Senior is a junior, Wright is wrong, Earl's future is gray and Hobbs is hobbling off. Have I understood that correctly?
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Enoch » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:52 pm

Bit early in the day, Domingos?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by TonyDomingos » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:14 pm

Enoch wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:52 pm
Bit early in the day, Domingos?

I have a day off from running the country. 8)
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