Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by TonyDomingos » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:22 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:41 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:34 pm
Passing on Earle, a lad who can play comfortably in two positions, surprises me.

Given the kind of unsavoury incidents Barton was involved in during his playing career, I'm curious to know what Dunne must have done to upset him!
Turned up as a prosecution witness?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:40 am

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... er-market/

We won’t chase a second goalkeeper, trusting Matt Alexander and/or getting in a senior loanee if needed.

Two deals thought to be close, but Wheater hasn’t progressed.

Squad numbers too tight. Hill trying to move out some younger pros. Connor Hall, presumably, and James Weir.
We have plans but also players who probably need to leave the club as well. There are a lot of young players in this squad who are professionals and I don’t think the time is right now for them all. We still believe there is a chance of avoiding relegation.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:41 am

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... er-market/

Interesting comments from Hill. Looking to move younger players out to free up squad places within the embargo restrictions. Not recruiting another keeper (sensible in my view - a squad space for a bench sitting keeper in this position is silly).

Sounds like we've more or less wanted the loans to go back - so must be some plans.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:05 am

Sending all 4 loanees back certainly came as a surprise to me. You can only assume, and hope, that this is part of a pre-formulated plan from the management team and they're not just winging it. It's hard to see how we can cobble together a squad that's going to be competitive for the rest of the season now.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:08 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:05 am
Sending all 4 loanees back certainly came as a surprise to me. You can only assume, and hope, that this is part of a pre-formulated plan from the management team and they're not just winging it. It's hard to see how we can cobble together a squad that's going to be competitive for the rest of the season now.
Sounds like we sent Earl and Wright back - whereas Bridcutt seemingly we'd keep but he has "options" according to Hill and Verlinden was always going back to Stoke in January so not sure we had a choice at all there.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:31 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:08 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:05 am
Sending all 4 loanees back certainly came as a surprise to me. You can only assume, and hope, that this is part of a pre-formulated plan from the management team and they're not just winging it. It's hard to see how we can cobble together a squad that's going to be competitive for the rest of the season now.
Sounds like we sent Earl and Wright back - whereas Bridcutt seemingly we'd keep but he has "options" according to Hill and Verlinden was always going back to Stoke in January so not sure we had a choice at all there.
Bridcutt on ability I would definitely keep, but he does seem a little fragile.

Even though we're almost certainly getting relegated and are under this daft embargo, I can't help myself getting a bit excited at the prospect of new signings.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:33 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:31 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:08 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:05 am
Sending all 4 loanees back certainly came as a surprise to me. You can only assume, and hope, that this is part of a pre-formulated plan from the management team and they're not just winging it. It's hard to see how we can cobble together a squad that's going to be competitive for the rest of the season now.
Sounds like we sent Earl and Wright back - whereas Bridcutt seemingly we'd keep but he has "options" according to Hill and Verlinden was always going back to Stoke in January so not sure we had a choice at all there.
Bridcutt on ability I would definitely keep, but he does seem a little fragile.

Even though we're almost certainly getting relegated and are under this daft embargo, I can't help myself getting a bit excited at the prospect of new signings.
I'm interested as to whether these will be very short term moves or with an eye on next season.....

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:51 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:33 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:31 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:08 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:05 am
Sending all 4 loanees back certainly came as a surprise to me. You can only assume, and hope, that this is part of a pre-formulated plan from the management team and they're not just winging it. It's hard to see how we can cobble together a squad that's going to be competitive for the rest of the season now.
Sounds like we sent Earl and Wright back - whereas Bridcutt seemingly we'd keep but he has "options" according to Hill and Verlinden was always going back to Stoke in January so not sure we had a choice at all there.
Bridcutt on ability I would definitely keep, but he does seem a little fragile.

Even though we're almost certainly getting relegated and are under this daft embargo, I can't help myself getting a bit excited at the prospect of new signings.
I'm interested as to whether these will be very short term moves or with an eye on next season.....
We'd have to be bringing in some absolute superstars if this window's signings aren't going to be primarily for League 2.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:01 am

Couple of things. If they really were winging it and scratching around for players I'd expect them to keep the loanees rather than return them; to me, it seems a sensible and promising development to clear vital squad spaces, although obviously it heavily depends on who comes in to fill them.

Which brings me to point two: two-tier recruitment. I genuinely don't think Hill is blowing up balloons when he says they believe there's still a chance of avoiding relegation; they probably genuinely do. And what if we do somehow manage it, but we're then stuck with pre-contracted "Division Four" players and still under that two-year embargo? While I can understand the desire to build for the future, it has to be balanced with fighting for the present - and making players prove themselves. We won't get unsigned prodigies or underemployed geniuses, we'll get damaged goods. (Bridcutt is an example: bona-fide ability, bone-china physicality.) I think we'll see an almost scary amount of six-month contracts, bet-hedging by both club and players, and that's fine. Whether we stay up or not, we have to prove that we're a club worth coming to, and maybe a bit of hunger will help.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:39 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:01 am
Couple of things. If they really were winging it and scratching around for players I'd expect them to keep the loanees rather than return them; to me, it seems a sensible and promising development to clear vital squad spaces, although obviously it heavily depends on who comes in to fill them.

Which brings me to point two: two-tier recruitment. I genuinely don't think Hill is blowing up balloons when he says they believe there's still a chance of avoiding relegation; they probably genuinely do. And what if we do somehow manage it, but we're then stuck with pre-contracted "Division Four" players and still under that two-year embargo? While I can understand the desire to build for the future, it has to be balanced with fighting for the present - and making players prove themselves. We won't get unsigned prodigies or underemployed geniuses, we'll get damaged goods. (Bridcutt is an example: bona-fide ability, bone-china physicality.) I think we'll see an almost scary amount of six-month contracts, bet-hedging by both club and players, and that's fine. Whether we stay up or not, we have to prove that we're a club worth coming to, and maybe a bit of hunger will help.
I hope you are correct. Letting those players go would suggest there are some 'done deals' already, as it would be too big a risk otherwise.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:48 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:01 am
Couple of things. If they really were winging it and scratching around for players I'd expect them to keep the loanees rather than return them; to me, it seems a sensible and promising development to clear vital squad spaces, although obviously it heavily depends on who comes in to fill them.

Which brings me to point two: two-tier recruitment. I genuinely don't think Hill is blowing up balloons when he says they believe there's still a chance of avoiding relegation; they probably genuinely do. And what if we do somehow manage it, but we're then stuck with pre-contracted "Division Four" players and still under that two-year embargo? While I can understand the desire to build for the future, it has to be balanced with fighting for the present - and making players prove themselves. We won't get unsigned prodigies or underemployed geniuses, we'll get damaged goods. (Bridcutt is an example: bona-fide ability, bone-china physicality.) I think we'll see an almost scary amount of six-month contracts, bet-hedging by both club and players, and that's fine. Whether we stay up or not, we have to prove that we're a club worth coming to, and maybe a bit of hunger will help.
There is a difference between initial short term contracts out of necessity and having an eye on the future.

For example a 6 month loan for a player out of contract in the summer means there could well be an option. Whereas a 6 month loan for someone like "Verlinden" is short term by its very nature.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:53 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:39 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:01 am
Couple of things. If they really were winging it and scratching around for players I'd expect them to keep the loanees rather than return them; to me, it seems a sensible and promising development to clear vital squad spaces, although obviously it heavily depends on who comes in to fill them.

Which brings me to point two: two-tier recruitment. I genuinely don't think Hill is blowing up balloons when he says they believe there's still a chance of avoiding relegation; they probably genuinely do. And what if we do somehow manage it, but we're then stuck with pre-contracted "Division Four" players and still under that two-year embargo? While I can understand the desire to build for the future, it has to be balanced with fighting for the present - and making players prove themselves. We won't get unsigned prodigies or underemployed geniuses, we'll get damaged goods. (Bridcutt is an example: bona-fide ability, bone-china physicality.) I think we'll see an almost scary amount of six-month contracts, bet-hedging by both club and players, and that's fine. Whether we stay up or not, we have to prove that we're a club worth coming to, and maybe a bit of hunger will help.
I hope you are correct. Letting those players go would suggest there are some 'done deals' already, as it would be too big a risk otherwise.
Iles's fresh tweet suggests ongoing activity...
https://twitter.com/MarcIles/status/1214182412789460992
Wanderers announce their pre-Rochdale press conference will be at 1.30pm on Friday... Almost as if Keith Hill is expecting to be busy right up to the point he cannot register any more players!
----------
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:48 pm
There is a difference between initial short term contracts out of necessity and having an eye on the future.

For example a 6 month loan for a player out of contract in the summer means there could well be an option. Whereas a 6 month loan for someone like "Verlinden" is short term by its very nature.
Yes, very much so. I'm just saying that a player - for instance, say, Jimmy Dunne - who we're not absolutely 100% sure will be brilliant next year should be on a six-monther, possibly with extension clauses, while he proves his worth (and we pick our division). But that's not to say we shouldn't borrow one or two who would only ever be short-term. For instance, would life truly had been better had we never borrowed Verlinden?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:18 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:53 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:39 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:01 am
Couple of things. If they really were winging it and scratching around for players I'd expect them to keep the loanees rather than return them; to me, it seems a sensible and promising development to clear vital squad spaces, although obviously it heavily depends on who comes in to fill them.

Which brings me to point two: two-tier recruitment. I genuinely don't think Hill is blowing up balloons when he says they believe there's still a chance of avoiding relegation; they probably genuinely do. And what if we do somehow manage it, but we're then stuck with pre-contracted "Division Four" players and still under that two-year embargo? While I can understand the desire to build for the future, it has to be balanced with fighting for the present - and making players prove themselves. We won't get unsigned prodigies or underemployed geniuses, we'll get damaged goods. (Bridcutt is an example: bona-fide ability, bone-china physicality.) I think we'll see an almost scary amount of six-month contracts, bet-hedging by both club and players, and that's fine. Whether we stay up or not, we have to prove that we're a club worth coming to, and maybe a bit of hunger will help.
I hope you are correct. Letting those players go would suggest there are some 'done deals' already, as it would be too big a risk otherwise.
Iles's fresh tweet suggests ongoing activity...
https://twitter.com/MarcIles/status/1214182412789460992
Wanderers announce their pre-Rochdale press conference will be at 1.30pm on Friday... Almost as if Keith Hill is expecting to be busy right up to the point he cannot register any more players!
----------
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:48 pm
There is a difference between initial short term contracts out of necessity and having an eye on the future.

For example a 6 month loan for a player out of contract in the summer means there could well be an option. Whereas a 6 month loan for someone like "Verlinden" is short term by its very nature.
Yes, very much so. I'm just saying that a player - for instance, say, Jimmy Dunne - who we're not absolutely 100% sure will be brilliant next year should be on a six-monther, possibly with extension clauses, while he proves his worth (and we pick our division). But that's not to say we shouldn't borrow one or two who would only ever be short-term. For instance, would life truly had been better had we never borrowed Verlinden?
I guess we do not know. If we loan 4 than are never staying next year and then in the summer have to once again rebuild and scratch around - it just creates more risk. Potentially there is a solid argument for operating window to window (as to an extent we have to) - but it only takes a set of poor conditions/decisions in the summer for everything to go very dark indeed.

We need to go into next season with a core at least identified and known quantities IMO.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by jimbo » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:21 pm

Worth a mention that Chris Eagles has left Oldham today. Iles has retweeted the story. Anyone reckon he could be lined up for a return?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:22 pm

jimbo wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:21 pm
Worth a mention that Chris Eagles has left Oldham today. Iles has retweeted the story. Anyone reckon he could be lined up for a return?
Please no.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by jimbo » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:24 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:22 pm
jimbo wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:21 pm
Worth a mention that Chris Eagles has left Oldham today. Iles has retweeted the story. Anyone reckon he could be lined up for a return?
Please no.
I didn’t even realise he was still playing.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:27 pm

jimbo wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:24 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:22 pm
jimbo wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:21 pm
Worth a mention that Chris Eagles has left Oldham today. Iles has retweeted the story. Anyone reckon he could be lined up for a return?
Please no.
I didn’t even realise he was still playing.
We really need to end this unhealthy obsession some of our fans seem to have (on social media etc) with returns for former players. Especially ones as poor as Eagles is nowadays.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Prufrock » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:36 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:01 am
Couple of things. If they really were winging it and scratching around for players I'd expect them to keep the loanees rather than return them; to me, it seems a sensible and promising development to clear vital squad spaces, although obviously it heavily depends on who comes in to fill them.

Which brings me to point two: two-tier recruitment. I genuinely don't think Hill is blowing up balloons when he says they believe there's still a chance of avoiding relegation; they probably genuinely do. And what if we do somehow manage it, but we're then stuck with pre-contracted "Division Four" players and still under that two-year embargo? While I can understand the desire to build for the future, it has to be balanced with fighting for the present - and making players prove themselves. We won't get unsigned prodigies or underemployed geniuses, we'll get damaged goods. (Bridcutt is an example: bona-fide ability, bone-china physicality.) I think we'll see an almost scary amount of six-month contracts, bet-hedging by both club and players, and that's fine. Whether we stay up or not, we have to prove that we're a club worth coming to, and maybe a bit of hunger will help.
Whilst I take your point, if we do stay up they are highly unlikely to be Div 4 calibre players given they'll have been part of a squad (presumably an integral part given current form) that has put together a run at around 1.6ppg over a full half season.
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:34 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:36 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:01 am
I genuinely don't think Hill is blowing up balloons when he says they believe there's still a chance of avoiding relegation; they probably genuinely do. And what if we do somehow manage it, but we're then stuck with pre-contracted "Division Four" players and still under that two-year embargo? While I can understand the desire to build for the future, it has to be balanced with fighting for the present - and making players prove themselves. We won't get unsigned prodigies or underemployed geniuses, we'll get damaged goods. (Bridcutt is an example: bona-fide ability, bone-china physicality.) I think we'll see an almost scary amount of six-month contracts, bet-hedging by both club and players, and that's fine. Whether we stay up or not, we have to prove that we're a club worth coming to, and maybe a bit of hunger will help.
Whilst I take your point, if we do stay up they are highly unlikely to be Div 4 calibre players given they'll have been part of a squad (presumably an integral part given current form) that has put together a run at around 1.6ppg over a full half season.
Well, quite. But as usual it's aboput ballance. Say we make eight signings this month. How many should be planning for next season? It's not an idle question when squad numbers are restricted. There may be several players whom Hillcroft think are good enough for Div Four but probably not Div Three. How many spaces do we give up for a future we can't be sure of?

January's not the best time to make long-term plans but there will be players lapsing out of contract. Do we go for a Bridcutt - unlikely to stay for D4 but (if fit) much more likely to keep us up? Or some fallible kid who needs "minutes" in order to play the long game and be ready for next season? Now make that decision (say) eight times. As usual, it's balance.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:18 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:53 pm
But that's not to say we shouldn't borrow one or two who would only ever be short-term. For instance, would life truly had been better had we never borrowed Verlinden?
I guess we do not know. If we loan 4 than are never staying next year and then in the summer have to once again rebuild and scratch around - it just creates more risk. Potentially there is a solid argument for operating window to window (as to an extent we have to) - but it only takes a set of poor conditions/decisions in the summer for everything to go very dark indeed.
We need to go into next season with a core at least identified and known quantities IMO.
Case in point. Loaning four who aren't staying next season would be daft. Loaning one "Daniel Sturridge" who might save our arse - like yer man Forss who's scored half of AFC Wimbledon's goals - would not be daft at all.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:39 pm

jimbo wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:24 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:22 pm
jimbo wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:21 pm
Worth a mention that Chris Eagles has left Oldham today. Iles has retweeted the story. Anyone reckon he could be lined up for a return?
Please no.
I didn’t even realise he was still playing.
Eagles is a weird one. He's 34 now but he was only 28 when he left us and he's basically never settled since. Also dragged his feet about singing contracts and seemed happy to be a free agent. Odd stuff. I don't imagine he's The Answer.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:27 pm
We really need to end this unhealthy obsession some of our fans seem to have (on social media etc) with returns for former players. Especially ones as poor as Eagles is nowadays.
McGinlay for manager!

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