Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:08 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:01 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:21 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:29 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:46 am
5ft7in Scot who turned 28 in summer. Came through Hearts youth ranks but they did the old "Bolton to Alan Ball" and released him for being too wee.
Just been listening to an interview with Bornemouth's £11.5m from Sheff U, Welsh international midfielder, 5' 8", David Brooks ont' wireless. After being released by City he came to us, and guess we told him :roll:
We also got rid of Aaron Ramsdale who is now Bournemouth’s No.1 No.1
We musn't lose sight of the fact, according to some anyway, we have had this fantastically well run expensive youth set up for a good few years. Oh well.
It's not that expensive in the scheme of things: if you get a good 'un every now and again, it should pay its way. Also a very necessary production line. These things are always something of a crapshoot, with a vicious numerical funnelling demanding decisions that are by necessity based on guesswork. We rejected Ramsdale at 15 (IIRC) because he was too short, then he grew. Who knew?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Hoboh » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:00 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:08 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:01 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:21 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:29 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:46 am
5ft7in Scot who turned 28 in summer. Came through Hearts youth ranks but they did the old "Bolton to Alan Ball" and released him for being too wee.
Just been listening to an interview with Bornemouth's £11.5m from Sheff U, Welsh international midfielder, 5' 8", David Brooks ont' wireless. After being released by City he came to us, and guess we told him :roll:
We also got rid of Aaron Ramsdale who is now Bournemouth’s No.1 No.1
We musn't lose sight of the fact, according to some anyway, we have had this fantastically well run expensive youth set up for a good few years. Oh well.
It's not that expensive in the scheme of things: if you get a good 'un every now and again, it should pay its way. Also a very necessary production line. These things are always something of a crapshoot, with a vicious numerical funnelling demanding decisions that are by necessity based on guesswork. We rejected Ramsdale at 15 (IIRC) because he was too short, then he grew. Who knew?
The great scheme of things consists of a line of managers that never really trusted the system to the extent they promoted the youth unless in dire circumstances, well that's my opinion anyway.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:09 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:00 pm
The great scheme of things consists of a line of managers that never really trusted the system to the extent they promoted the youth unless in dire circumstances, well that's my opinion anyway.
That's certainly the case IMO. Freedman drove a wedge between the first team and the kids, Lennon didn't do much to solve it and although Parkinson was good at encouraging the youngsters and involving them in training sessions, he was a naturally conservative manager who'd rather trust an old pro than young blood.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by TonyDomingos » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:03 am

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:40 am

Hoboh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:00 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:08 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:01 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:21 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:29 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:46 am
5ft7in Scot who turned 28 in summer. Came through Hearts youth ranks but they did the old "Bolton to Alan Ball" and released him for being too wee.
Just been listening to an interview with Bornemouth's £11.5m from Sheff U, Welsh international midfielder, 5' 8", David Brooks ont' wireless. After being released by City he came to us, and guess we told him :roll:
We also got rid of Aaron Ramsdale who is now Bournemouth’s No.1 No.1
We musn't lose sight of the fact, according to some anyway, we have had this fantastically well run expensive youth set up for a good few years. Oh well.
It's not that expensive in the scheme of things: if you get a good 'un every now and again, it should pay its way. Also a very necessary production line. These things are always something of a crapshoot, with a vicious numerical funnelling demanding decisions that are by necessity based on guesswork. We rejected Ramsdale at 15 (IIRC) because he was too short, then he grew. Who knew?
The great scheme of things consists of a line of managers that never really trusted the system to the extent they promoted the youth unless in dire circumstances, well that's my opinion anyway.
But are we not seeing clearly the reason is the youth, generally weren't good enough?

Players like Vela and Clough got chances because they were good enough for the level we were at. But mainly they haven't been. And that's been clearly demonstrated this season.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Branagan » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:24 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:40 am
Hoboh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:00 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:08 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:01 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:21 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:29 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:46 am
5ft7in Scot who turned 28 in summer. Came through Hearts youth ranks but they did the old "Bolton to Alan Ball" and released him for being too wee.
Just been listening to an interview with Bornemouth's £11.5m from Sheff U, Welsh international midfielder, 5' 8", David Brooks ont' wireless. After being released by City he came to us, and guess we told him :roll:
We also got rid of Aaron Ramsdale who is now Bournemouth’s No.1 No.1
We musn't lose sight of the fact, according to some anyway, we have had this fantastically well run expensive youth set up for a good few years. Oh well.
It's not that expensive in the scheme of things: if you get a good 'un every now and again, it should pay its way. Also a very necessary production line. These things are always something of a crapshoot, with a vicious numerical funnelling demanding decisions that are by necessity based on guesswork. We rejected Ramsdale at 15 (IIRC) because he was too short, then he grew. Who knew?
The great scheme of things consists of a line of managers that never really trusted the system to the extent they promoted the youth unless in dire circumstances, well that's my opinion anyway.
But are we not seeing clearly the reason is the youth, generally weren't good enough?

Players like Vela and Clough got chances because they were good enough for the level we were at. But mainly they haven't been. And that's been clearly demonstrated this season.
Yeah we've had all the evidence we need that 'promote the youth' isn't the silver bullet a lot of people hoped. I understand where they came from, at times I was one of them: in desperate times, what a story it would be to throw on some youngsters and find they are the wonder kids that form the foundation of a new era.

Of all those that made the infant XI at the start of this season, Politic and Brockbank plus maybe Zouma and Edwards are the only ones that anyone would want starting week in week out. Not sure what other clubs do but, when you consider those 3/4 alongside Clough, Vela and Holding, as DSB said, we aren't getting a bad return. What? Roughly one first teamer a year on average?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:56 am

Branagan wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:24 am



Yeah we've had all the evidence we need that 'promote the youth' isn't the silver bullet a lot of people hoped. I understand where they came from, at times I was one of them: in desperate times, what a story it would be to throw on some youngsters and find they are the wonder kids that form the foundation of a new era.

Of all those that made the infant XI at the start of this season, Politic and Brockbank plus maybe Zouma and Edwards are the only ones that anyone would want starting week in week out. Not sure what other clubs do but, when you consider those 3/4 alongside Clough, Vela and Holding, as DSB said, we aren't getting a bad return. What? Roughly one first teamer a year on average?
I think that's a generous metric to be honest. The 4 you've mentioned are yet to prove themselves capable regularly in league one. I'd argue so far that Zouma particularly does not look very close to the standard required. The rest we wait and see on - but I'll bet that at least two won't make it.

Clough and Vela are now both struggling in their careers.

I'd say without any science our output has been poor - I'd think a minimum should be 1 per year breaking through and becoming established as Hill says - 100 appearances established not sporadic efforts then sliding back away again.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:19 pm

Cloughs an odd one...why it didn’t work out for him at Rochdale I struggle with. He should be absolutely fine at this level. Confidence issues have taken hold I now imagine. I’d still take him here to have another go but I wouldn’t be confident.

Vela has done himself over; playing in a poor league he won’t improve up there!

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:22 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:19 pm
Cloughs an odd one...why it didn’t work out for him at Rochdale I struggle with. He should be absolutely fine at this level. Confidence issues have taken hold I now imagine. I’d still take him here to have another go but I wouldn’t be confident.

Vela has done himself over; playing in a poor league he won’t improve up there!
IMO Vela was a limited player who had the ability to be a hard working, grafting box to box type but seemed on the face of it to lack real application.

Clough was a typical player of that type, burst onto the scene, look amazing but gets found out eventually and can't adapt. He's probably just too lightweight so very limited in what he can ever offer.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:34 pm

See, I always thought that Vela and Clough paired incredibly well. So well, in fact, that I said at the time that if anyone came in for one then they should also come in for the other.
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:38 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:34 pm
See, I always thought that Vela and Clough paired incredibly well. So well, in fact, that I said at the time that if anyone came in for one then they should also come in for the other.
That league one attack of Madine, Clough, Vela from midfield and Ameobi was in reality way way too good for that league. Shame it was only half a season then half of it dismantled. But its the only time I've seen Vela look like he fits into a team role. And suspect that was good players around him.

It suited Clough well since Ameobi came inside drifted out and Madine fought the centre backs it left Clough holes to exploit from the left.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by nelson66 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:45 pm

I think we have generally had a lot of poor players for a long time now.... no one wants to buy them off us ... and when they leave (usually contract expiry) they generally find their own level
https://www.betvictornorthernpremier.co ... ners-59029
Sanmi Odelusi being a classic example

Apart from Rob Holding - there can't be many others who have gone onwards and upwards and made a great career for themselves.
The Whites Are Going Up 2020 :pissed: :grin:

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dujon » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:02 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:34 pm
See, I always thought that Vela and Clough paired incredibly well. So well, in fact, that I said at the time that if anyone came in for one then they should also come in for the other.
:lol:

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Bertie Wooster » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm

Rumour doing the rounds that we have signed the Ex Rangers, Leicester & Blackpool striker Joe Dodoo. He was rumoured to be on the radar on deadline day. I don't know much about him, but apparently he's young, quite powerful & fast but hasn't had that many games - IMO its a gamble worth taking and we are very light up front.

It would be good to sign Ben Marshall as well who is apparently on trial and is a very good player but whether we could afford him is doubtful, and this would leave us light in central defence if we do only have 2 spare squad places ?

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:28 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:17 pm
Rumour doing the rounds that we have signed the Ex Rangers, Leicester & Blackpool striker Joe Dodoo. He was rumoured to be on the radar on deadline day. I don't know much about him, but apparently he's young, quite powerful & fast but hasn't had that many games - IMO its a gamble worth taking and we are very light up front.

It would be good to sign Ben Marshall as well who is apparently on trial and is a very good player but whether we could afford him is doubtful, and this would leave us light in central defence if we do only have 2 spare squad places ?
Think its a little beyond rumour given the BWFC tweet that says a signing will be announced at 4.30 heavily hints at DOdoo..

Anyway know nothing about him beyond seeing him score for Rangers on telly once.

I suspect that this decision follows their look at Sonny Graham and Bridcutt in the back 4 on Tuesday. Probably feel at a push Bridcutt can go into the back four and Graham play midfield - and that leaves them able to strengthen elsewhere. We can only sign 2.

Whilst Marshall is a good player I'm not totally convinced he offers what we need really (goals) but we shall see.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:12 pm

Haven't done much research on Ben Marshall but at a quick peep I can't help but notice he hasn't played below the second tier since we were in the top one. Playing for five different Champo teams in that time suggests someone who hasn't really settled down, except that he spent a busy three-and-a-half years up the devil's highway at Blackburn, before he was drummed out by Owen Coyle. (He's also played under Gary Megson, Nigel Pearson and Martin Allen.) He's been a bit less busy since Blackburn, dropping from 40+ games per season to more like 20, and he ended his Norwich contract by mutual consent in summer. He might be ready for a challenge. He played 64 times with Jason Lowe. Oh and he can also play right-back...

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:15 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:12 pm
Haven't done much research on Ben Marshall but at a quick peep I can't help but notice he hasn't played below the second tier since we were in the top one. Playing for five different Champo teams in that time suggests someone who hasn't really settled down, except that he spent a busy three-and-a-half years up the devil's highway at Blackburn, before he was drummed out by Owen Coyle. (He's also played under Gary Megson, Nigel Pearson and Martin Allen.) He's been a bit less busy since Blackburn, dropping from 40+ games per season to more like 20, and he ended his Norwich contract by mutual consent in summer. He might be ready for a challenge. He played 64 times with Jason Lowe. Oh and he can also play right-back...
He's clearly got good pedigree above the current level we're at. And I suspect would like Bridcutt look a good player down here - my question I guess is, what would he add - we're short on goals and he doesn't ever seem to have been close to prolific.

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:32 pm

It's Dodoo, as the Boo Radleys nearly sang. Rest of season, pending clearance.
dodoo.png
dodoo.png (2.34 MiB) Viewed 162 times
https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2019/octobe ... wanderers/

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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by TonyDomingos » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:56 pm

Ding-dong-dodoo.
Às armas, às armas!
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Re: Onwards and Downwards: 2020 transfer speculation thread.

Post by Prufrock » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:53 pm

Don't know anything about him but seems a shame there's another one in front of Connor Hall. Needs must I guess.
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