Administration and recovery

[Bruce Rioja]

^ Will the hotel have a list of creditors?

Headed by The Corby Trouser Press Company Ltd.

Followed by the Gideon Bible Distributors ltd co.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

It stinks because it is football protectionism. It is the football authorities saying "its ok to pay local businesses 25p in the pound as part of an administration but footballers - they have to get everything owed to them". So local businesses that might have supplied a club with services for decades can (and do) end up going out of business but footballers always get what they are owed.

Ooooh get you! So the same form of protectionism that led to the creation of cooperative societies, trade unions, Labour parties, mutual trusts, Lloyds insurance, and most of the economic guarantees behind National Bonds... That sort of stench!
If somebody selling pasties to a football club knows that they as unsecured creditors might only get 25p in the pound, why does it stink that the people who man the turnstiles get a pound in the pound??? You don't half talk some wank.

[Enoch]

There is something odious around.

Nixon reporting that there's a slight whiff.

Or that something is sniffing his arse.

[Martin_Cruise]

The Times is reporting that the Eddie Davies Trust ( £17.5 mill) and Ken ( £7.5 mill) are asking for £24.5 million between them.
If true it's no wonder that Sharon is having to haggle the price down.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

The Times is reporting that the Eddie Davies Trust ( £17.5 mill) and Ken ( £7.5 mill) are asking for £24.5 million between them.
If true it's no wonder that Sharon is having to haggle the price down.

More on that and the takeover in this BEN article...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... nces-bare/

Seems it all comes down to agreeing pay offs to EDT and KA, which is worrying....

[TANGODANCER]

I am not Ken Anderson's biggest fan. Will we ever be rid of him?

[Worthy4England]

The Times is reporting that the Eddie Davies Trust ( £17.5 mill) and Ken ( £7.5 mill) are asking for £24.5 million between them.
If true it's no wonder that Sharon is having to haggle the price down.

More on that and the takeover in this BEN article...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... nces-bare/

Seems it all comes down to agreeing pay offs to EDT and KA, which is worrying....

Aye and they both seem to want substantially more than is actually in the books...

[TANGODANCER]

Just a question, but is Eddie Davies's business,firm/company still trading and is the money owed to that business or his family? Pure idle curiosity.

[Worthy4England]

Just a question, but is Eddie Davies's business,firm/company still trading and is the money owed to that business or his family? Pure idle curiosity.

This is what I think is the case. They were two off-shore trusts rather than conventional businesses - Moonshift and Fildraw - Moonshift was his investment trust, Fildraw was his private trust (I think) so they don't "trade" like a shop - When he popped off I think both became part of the executors responsibilities and became the Eddie Davies Trust (EDT) and that owns all the assets - so not sure it's "trading" as such.

[TANGODANCER]

Just a question, but is Eddie Davies's business,firm/company still trading and is the money owed to that business or his family? Pure idle curiosity.

This is what I think is the case. They were two off-shore trusts rather than conventional businesses - Moonshift and Fildraw - Moonshift was his investment trust, Fildraw was his private trust (I think) so they don't "trade" like a shop - When he popped off I think both became part of the executors responsibilities and became the Eddie Davies Trust (EDT) and that owns all the assets - so not sure it's "trading" as such.

See Worthy, one of my reasons for asking was based on idle speculation that a man who can afford to write off a debt of a hundred million or so (most likely because he knew he'd never see it again anyway) must surely have left behind a considerable sum of money to his inheritors. If this is the case, just how much is involved when they take us to court for 17 mill? It certainly isn't that I blame them because they are undoubtedly owed it and they probably don't want any further dealings with the club, but as I said, idle curiosity prompted the question as to what E.D actually wished on his inheritors? Doubt we'll ever really know anyway.

[Worthy4England]

Well we can be fairly sure if there was a specific clause wiping the debt obligation the executor would have bern obliged to act upon it (unless it was contested). When he wiped off the debt, he could (had he wished) have wiped it completely. The fact he didn't suggests he was hoping for some return on the part he was still owed. We know in his lifetime he stopped bankrolling so it's no stretch to suggest that what was left in, he wanted back.

[LeverEnd]

It's not clear to me how much power the secured creditors have. If they disagree with the amount offered can they veto the whole thing or can the admins tell them tough shit that's all you're getting? If they do refuse the offer is it back to court for a judge or straight to liquidation?

[BWFC_Insane]

It's not clear to me how much power the secured creditors have. If they disagree with the amount offered can they veto the whole thing or can the admins tell them tough shit that's all you're getting? If they do refuse the offer is it back to court for a judge or straight to liquidation?

The secured creditors have to agree with their settlements - which in many cases means they have to be paid in full.

I'm told there are ways to deal with it should a secured creditor fail to reach agreement - but they are long winded and in our case not an option. In our specific case the decision for secured creditors is "take what is on offer" which will likely be the full amount the admins have determined (but those amounts are disputed) or business will go into liquidation and you'll get less and also cause the football club to disappear...take your choice.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Who's Keith Cousins, then?

Former agent of John Terry
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footb ... -deal.html

Former owner of Rushden & Diamonds
https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/spor ... -1-2770435
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/14034978

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... ills-paid/

The Bolton News has also learned reports claiming that ex-Rushden and Diamonds owner Keith Cousins is being lined up to be Wanderers’ next director of football are wide of the mark.

Cousins, who has also been vice-chairman at Peterborough United, has been working as a liaison between players and coaching staff and the administrators since their arrival on May 13.

He has been working with Phil Parkinson to identify a pool of targets for next season and has also been approached by clubs in the Premier League, Championship and SPL about potential loan moves, which could be brought in at short notice.

But sources at the club insist Cousins is not being lined-up for a permanent role and will only stay on at Bolton as a consultancy basis to Football Ventures.

[LeverEnd]

It's not clear to me how much power the secured creditors have. If they disagree with the amount offered can they veto the whole thing or can the admins tell them tough shit that's all you're getting? If they do refuse the offer is it back to court for a judge or straight to liquidation?

The secured creditors have to agree with their settlements - which in many cases means they have to be paid in full.

I'm told there are ways to deal with it should a secured creditor fail to reach agreement - but they are long winded and in our case not an option. In our specific case the decision for secured creditors is "take what is on offer" which will likely be the full amount the admins have determined (but those amounts are disputed) or business will go into liquidation and you'll get less and also cause the football club to disappear...take your choice.

Thanks. Is it possible that some real c*nt of a SC, let's call him Ken for argument's sake, could refuse to accept what's offered and try for a better deal for himself from liquidation? Could he make that happen or are there mechanisms to stop him?

[BWFC_Insane]

It's not clear to me how much power the secured creditors have. If they disagree with the amount offered can they veto the whole thing or can the admins tell them tough shit that's all you're getting? If they do refuse the offer is it back to court for a judge or straight to liquidation?

The secured creditors have to agree with their settlements - which in many cases means they have to be paid in full.

I'm told there are ways to deal with it should a secured creditor fail to reach agreement - but they are long winded and in our case not an option. In our specific case the decision for secured creditors is "take what is on offer" which will likely be the full amount the admins have determined (but those amounts are disputed) or business will go into liquidation and you'll get less and also cause the football club to disappear...take your choice.

Thanks. Is it possible that some real c*nt of a SC, let's call him Ken for argument's sake, could refuse to accept what's offered and try for a better deal for himself from liquidation? Could he make that happen or are there mechanisms to stop him?

It is possible because they have to sign an agreement in order to come out of admin. So yes a secured creditor could in theory scupper the deal. And given the disputes in amounts owed one can see why the deal has dragged on these past few weeks following Heads of Terms. There are mechanisms to stop a rogue SC from scuppering a good deal but it would be long winded and messy and mean we wouldn't exist anymore due to timing.


However, you have to remember that in liquidation none of the SC's will come out better off - they will get less than from admin. Secondly there is potentially a representational thing - would you want a receiver poking around the history of a business you'd run? Especially one that is now insolvent....however, I'm not a mind reader so who knows.

There is some level of confidence that things are finally starting to wrap up now. Is all I will say.

[Worthy4England]

It's not clear to me how much power the secured creditors have. If they disagree with the amount offered can they veto the whole thing or can the admins tell them tough shit that's all you're getting? If they do refuse the offer is it back to court for a judge or straight to liquidation?

The secured creditors have to agree with their settlements - which in many cases means they have to be paid in full.

I'm told there are ways to deal with it should a secured creditor fail to reach agreement - but they are long winded and in our case not an option. In our specific case the decision for secured creditors is "take what is on offer" which will likely be the full amount the admins have determined (but those amounts are disputed) or business will go into liquidation and you'll get less and also cause the football club to disappear...take your choice.

Before they get to "agree settlement", they have to agree on what the value is. If they genuinely disagree with the values of their "settlements", I would assume there's legal process they could follow to press their claim, so I'm not sure we would have a choice as to whether or not it's an "option"...

I guess in the meantime we could go bump...

[BWFC_Insane]

It's not clear to me how much power the secured creditors have. If they disagree with the amount offered can they veto the whole thing or can the admins tell them tough shit that's all you're getting? If they do refuse the offer is it back to court for a judge or straight to liquidation?

The secured creditors have to agree with their settlements - which in many cases means they have to be paid in full.

I'm told there are ways to deal with it should a secured creditor fail to reach agreement - but they are long winded and in our case not an option. In our specific case the decision for secured creditors is "take what is on offer" which will likely be the full amount the admins have determined (but those amounts are disputed) or business will go into liquidation and you'll get less and also cause the football club to disappear...take your choice.

Before they get to "agree settlement", they have to agree on what the value is. If they genuinely disagree with the values of their "settlements", I would assume there's legal process they could follow to press their claim, so I'm not sure we would have a choice as to whether or not it's an "option"...

I guess in the meantime we could go bump...

Yes indeed. I think in essence signing the agreement of settlement/deeds what ever they are called means they have conceded on the value of their claims....

I suspect the admins have said "here is what we can prove you are owed - if you have some proof of your claims then show it". The discrepancy partly reflects the hotel/club separation (thanks Ken!) but also partly reflects the complete mess the club has been in and consequently muddled accounting procedures!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Here's a question. What happens if admin does drag on? Let's not go into why that might happen, just the logistics. We know this process has been quicker than most, but there's a corollary to that: have there been any other admins wherein the club has found itself effectively unable to proceed as a football team, for the reasons we currently are - ie no manager (unless voluntary), not enough players?

I wonder if there is a time/date by which we have to declare ourselves 'ready' (ha!) for the season, as in "able to fulfil our fixtures" (fittingly enough). I'm not even talking about having enough grown-ups to make a fight against relegation, just enough bodies on the pitch...

[BWFC_Insane]

Here's a question. What happens if admin does drag on? Let's not go into why that might happen, just the logistics. We know this process has been quicker than most, but there's a corollary to that: have there been any other admins wherein the club has found itself effectively unable to proceed as a football team, for the reasons we currently are - ie no manager (unless voluntary), not enough players?

I wonder if there is a time/date by which we have to declare ourselves 'ready' (ha!) for the season, as in "able to fulfil our fixtures" (fittingly enough). I'm not even talking about having enough grown-ups to make a fight against relegation, just enough bodies on the pitch...

This is a good question. I'd like to know whether the administrators could accept the EFL structural payments in order to run us into the start of the season if necessary. If not I do not believe we'd be able to compete in fixtures for a whole load of reasons, not enough players, issue over existing players insurance and non payment etc....

From everything I've heard the administrators are very clear this needs completing before then. But of course it isn't entirely in their gift. I rather suspect that were they to think they could run the club - they would have started selling season tickets etc...but who knows....