Administration and recovery

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Bertie Wooster
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Bertie Wooster » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:42 pm

So are you saying that basically they are not really that interested in how successful or stable the football club is on the pitch ? In which case the administrators were not being completely truthful then with their statement following FV being preferred bidders ?

"They were also able to show the viability of a minimum two-year business plan for the club which was of the utmost importance".

Worthy4England
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:54 pm

Would certainly be good to get a decent update that actually told us something substantive. I'd be a lot more concerned if they didn't have a Bolton fan, who's previously helped bail us out, on the board...

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:21 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:57 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:36 pm
but still I think that’s football fan anxiousness not business sense...
I don't. The pragmatist in me tells me that there's no fecking way on Earth that we're going to be good to go 18 days from now.
What do you mean by good to go? My point was more that the business of the deal is priority for those involved. The football season secondary. And the alternative to FV not completing this is liquidation.
All / any of it.
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:52 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:57 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:36 pm
but still I think that’s football fan anxiousness not business sense...
I don't. The pragmatist in me tells me that there's no fecking way on Earth that we're going to be good to go 18 days from now.
What do you mean by good to go? My point was more that the business of the deal is priority for those involved. The football season secondary. And the alternative to FV not completing this is liquidation.
All / any of it.
Aye that "good start" to catch up 12 points is looking a bit fookin thin at this point.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:56 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:52 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:57 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:36 pm
but still I think that’s football fan anxiousness not business sense...
I don't. The pragmatist in me tells me that there's no fecking way on Earth that we're going to be good to go 18 days from now.
What do you mean by good to go? My point was more that the business of the deal is priority for those involved. The football season secondary. And the alternative to FV not completing this is liquidation.
All / any of it.
Aye that "good start" to catch up 12 points is looking a bit fookin thin at this point.
I rather feel next season is a foregone conclusion at this point. The bigger picture is owners committed to helping turn our fortunes round in the longer term. I have confidence only in that a long term fan and supporter of the club is involved.

Bertie Wooster
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Bertie Wooster » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:58 pm

Hotel admins have said tonight that it will be at least a further 4-6 weeks before any sale of the hotel, and that they haven't had any dialogue or contact with FV to date.

Therefore surely its time for FV to either put up (i.e. complete very soon) & start to run the football club correctly or admit defeat, walk away and see if someone else is daft enough to do it.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:29 pm

CODE: SELECT ALL

Jim_McDonuts
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Jim_McDonuts » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:36 pm

Who's J.P. Thomas?
(& why do they all have pub singer 1st name as 2nd name surnames??)

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:38 pm

Basran's been gone for ages.
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:39 pm

Jim_McDonuts wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:36 pm
Who's J.P. Thomas?
(& why do they all have pub singer 1st name as 2nd name surnames??)
One of the mighty four. Sorry, incredible three.
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

Worthy4England
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:57 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:58 pm
Hotel admins have said tonight that it will be at least a further 4-6 weeks before any sale of the hotel, and that they haven't had any dialogue or contact with FV to date.

Therefore surely its time for FV to either put up (i.e. complete very soon) & start to run the football club correctly or admit defeat, walk away and see if someone else is daft enough to do it.
I'm not sure there's much of an option around "someone else". If we take Admins view of FV bid at face value (that it was monitarily the best offer by some way), then if FV can't get to a solvent deal, they might take the view that any of the others wouldn't be able to either, so they'd have to liquidate...

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by malcd1 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:04 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:38 pm
Basran's been gone for ages.

Agree. Old news.

The rumour the other day was that FV was having to find another investor to help with the purchase. No idea if it was true or not.
Do not trust atoms. They make up everything.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:24 pm

Well they're not getting the hotel until well into the season if at all. So now we'll see what they're made of. I'm really not in the slightest bit optimistic.
...

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by nelson66 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:21 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:24 pm
Well they're not getting the hotel until well into the season if at all. So now we'll see what they're made of. I'm really not in the slightest bit optimistic.
when the going gets tough the tough get going... if FV have the financial balls of steel... now's the time for them to show em
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Dujon » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:33 am

I am, as Perfan used to say (she seems to be a retired member these days) "confuserated"

BWFC or its holding companies relative to the ownership of both the Club itself and the White's hotel via other links to BWFC: In other words does the Club own the hotel? Or perhaps the other way around? Given the situation with hotel wages it would appear from this distance that it is the former.

On the other hand the appointment of different administrators for the sale of the Club and the hotel says otherwise. It therefore appears to this small mind that the legal eagles define the two entities as different, regardless of any internecine involvement.

In that case it is not a matter of the Club's administrators selling off assets in order to try to keep the Club afloat financially, but something out of their control. Ergo, if an intending purchaser of the Club insists on the two administrators to agree on a 'price' for the 'package' and one of them demurs, then we, the fans/supporters, are facing the EFL axe.

Am I wrong?

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:55 am

I am curious as to why the hotel is generating such interest. It has always been a slight loss-making enterprise even when 25,000 were turning up for each home game. Why would people like David Sullivan and the ex Forest chairman be interested? Does the south stand car park come with the hotel?

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Whookam » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:48 am

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:55 am
I am curious as to why the hotel is generating such interest. It has always been a slight loss-making enterprise even when 25,000 were turning up for each home game. Why would people like David Sullivan and the ex Forest chairman be interested? Does the south stand car park come with the hotel?
I've not looked into this too much but I thought that the hotel recently made money?

or have I been Andersoned?

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:58 am

Dujon wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:33 am
I am, as Perfan used to say (she seems to be a retired member these days) "confuserated"

BWFC or its holding companies relative to the ownership of both the Club itself and the White's hotel via other links to BWFC: In other words does the Club own the hotel? Or perhaps the other way around? Given the situation with hotel wages it would appear from this distance that it is the former.

On the other hand the appointment of different administrators for the sale of the Club and the hotel says otherwise. It therefore appears to this small mind that the legal eagles define the two entities as different, regardless of any internecine involvement.

In that case it is not a matter of the Club's administrators selling off assets in order to try to keep the Club afloat financially, but something out of their control. Ergo, if an intending purchaser of the Club insists on the two administrators to agree on a 'price' for the 'package' and one of them demurs, then we, the fans/supporters, are facing the EFL axe.

Am I wrong?
Ken Anderson owns the lot - there are about 4 separate businesses - so 4 separate legal entities - that make up "everything that is BWFC". But he owns these things with the equivalent of huge mortgages on them - it's like if you buy your house with 100% mortgage - on paper your the owner, but in reality the bank is.

When we went into Admin, whoever called Admin - the owner or key secured creditors - got to appoint the Admins. So Davies family appointed one for the Club (Burnden Leisure) as they're the largest secured creditor against that bit (effectively own more of it than Anderson as a % of total debt), but they're not the largest secured creditor against the hotel - that's Prescot Business Parks, so we ended up with two admins for different legal entities.

Legal eagles didn't define how many entities there were - we did (Club). Admins can't sell off assets we don't actually own (because they're secured against loans). Legally they have to get the best deal for both legal entities as separate businesses, because they are - they'd have to do this if there was only one Admin representing both.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:00 am

Whookam wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:48 am
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:55 am
I am curious as to why the hotel is generating such interest. It has always been a slight loss-making enterprise even when 25,000 were turning up for each home game. Why would people like David Sullivan and the ex Forest chairman be interested? Does the south stand car park come with the hotel?
I've not looked into this too much but I thought that the hotel recently made money?

or have I been Andersoned?
Was losing around half a million a year last couple of accounts...

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:01 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:58 am
Dujon wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:33 am
I am, as Perfan used to say (she seems to be a retired member these days) "confuserated"

BWFC or its holding companies relative to the ownership of both the Club itself and the White's hotel via other links to BWFC: In other words does the Club own the hotel? Or perhaps the other way around? Given the situation with hotel wages it would appear from this distance that it is the former.

On the other hand the appointment of different administrators for the sale of the Club and the hotel says otherwise. It therefore appears to this small mind that the legal eagles define the two entities as different, regardless of any internecine involvement.

In that case it is not a matter of the Club's administrators selling off assets in order to try to keep the Club afloat financially, but something out of their control. Ergo, if an intending purchaser of the Club insists on the two administrators to agree on a 'price' for the 'package' and one of them demurs, then we, the fans/supporters, are facing the EFL axe.

Am I wrong?
Ken Anderson owns the lot - there are about 4 separate businesses - so 4 separate legal entities - that make up "everything that is BWFC". But he owns these things with the equivalent of huge mortgages on them - it's like if you buy your house with 100% mortgage - on paper your the owner, but in reality the bank is.

When we went into Admin, whoever called Admin - the owner or key secured creditors - got to appoint the Admins. So Davies family appointed one for the Club (Burnden Leisure) as they're the largest secured creditor against that bit (effectively own more of it than Anderson as a % of total debt), but they're not the largest secured creditor against the hotel - that's Prescot Business Parks, so we ended up with two admins for different legal entities.

Legal eagles didn't define how many entities there were - we did (Club). Admins can't sell off assets we don't actually own (because they're secured against loans). Legally they have to get the best deal for both legal entities as separate businesses, because they are - they'd have to do this if there was only one Admin representing both.
Ken appointed administrators for the hotel....and largest secured creditor against the hotel....I don't know but I suspect that might be in dispute!

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