Administration and recovery

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Marc Iles was saying all last week that there was no chance of liquidation.

His thinking there seemed to be because then everybody gets nowt, which is statistically less than some.

Not (only) the same problem for Bury is it? We seem to be good to go aside from paying off football creditors in full now which FV don't have the money for. More stuff wrong at Bury in addition I think.

Indeed. Bloke who bought the club for a quid a few months ago has never proven he's got more than the fiver in his arse pocket.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Not (only) the same problem for Bury is it? We seem to be good to go aside from paying off football creditors in full now which FV don't have the money for. More stuff wrong at Bury in addition I think.

...not least being the fact they're Bury. It's like being Brighton, but up north.

[beer_swiller]

Hi all. Only posted once in the past few years, which is probably wise.
Here's a little poem I put together.

Clubs in crisis
Now that’s a big relief
A massive weight off the shoulder
Our football club has been saved
But still the problems smoulder
Were not out the wood as yet
But we start the season no less
with no big thanks to the EFL
They could have prevented this mess.

The problems began many years ago
When the Premier league got too much
As for Messrs Gartside and Davies
Both never had the midas touch
They spent a fortune on players
And recouped very little in return
It was they who started our downfall
And began the cause for concern.

There’s not just Bolton who have troublers
But a few more clubs besides
Notably Bury, their game is suspended
And this is where football divides
Whilst the premier league becomes richer
And with clubs like Bury in crisis
It puts the game into perspective
When you look at these transfer fee prices.

The EFL should do a lot more
It’s the season ticket holders that pay
They are that clubs bread and butter
When a twelve point deduction enters play
With no vetting of dodgy owners
They allowed them to bleed the clubs dry
How many more will they allow past the gate
Who never have a money supply.

We’ll kick off the season at Wycombe
A game I never thought would be played
Yet we desperately need more players
Many left coz they never got paid
But the EFL aren’t finished there
They’ll deduct more points for the strike
Again, it’s the fans that will suffer
Stop behaving like you’re the “Third Reich”

[Harry Genshaw]

That last line!!

[Bruce Rioja]

That last line!!

Does that class as the writer having invoked Godwins law/theory?

[Worthy4England]

Just to be a picky bastard - the start of our downfall pre-dates Davies being on the board. We were £24m in debt in 1999. Situation not dissimilar to today. Difference is when Davies came on board, he actually had money and was happy to spend it.

[Martin_Cruise]

Just to be a picky bastard - the start of our downfall pre-dates Davies being on the board. We were £24m in debt in 1999. Situation not dissimilar to today. Difference is when Davies came on board, he actually had money and was happy to spend it.

In the early years whatever Eddie was spending his money on, it wasn't the team.When we were promoted in 2000/01 the other promoted clubs Fulham and Blackburn spent far money on their team.They also spent far more money on their team after winning promotion.
I think Bolton spent 650k on Henrik Pedersen that summer after promotion as opposed to Fulham splashing out £25 -30 million.

[BWFC_Insane]

Just to be a picky bastard - the start of our downfall pre-dates Davies being on the board. We were £24m in debt in 1999. Situation not dissimilar to today. Difference is when Davies came on board, he actually had money and was happy to spend it.

In the early years whatever Eddie was spending his money on, it wasn't the team.When we were promoted in 2000/01 the other promoted clubs Fulham and Blackburn spent far money on their team.They also spent far more money on their team after winning promotion.
I think Bolton spent 650k on Henrik Pedersen that summer after promotion as opposed to Fulham splashing out £25 -30 million.

But signing the likes of Ngotty and Djorkaeff during that season whilst not incurring fees won't have come cheap in terms of wages. And during that sort of period I remember Everton's Moyes bemoaning the fact that Bolton were offering higher wages than Everton at the time.

[Martin_Cruise]

Whatever David Moyes thinks, Bolton had the lowest wage bill in the Premier League in the 2001/02 season. I don't have the figures at hand but would be shocked if Bolton ever had a higher wage bill than Everton in Eddie's time

[Prufrock]

Just because somebody else spent more doesn't mean he wasn't spending money Pretty sure he was subsidising losses right from the beginning. That Jack Walker and Mohammed al-Fayed were putting in more is neither here nor there.

[Martin_Cruise]

Just because somebody else spent more doesn't mean he wasn't spending money Pretty sure he was subsidising losses right from the beginning. That Jack Walker and Mohammed al-Fayed were putting in more is neither here nor there.

Maybe, my point was that in the early years he wasn't spending his money on the team.In our first year in the PL under Eddie we'd have gone straight back down in bottom place if the league was arranged in order of transfer spending/wages paid.

[BWFC_Insane]

Whatever David Moyes thinks, Bolton had the lowest wage bill in the Premier League in the 2001/02 season. I don't have the figures at hand but would be shocked if Bolton ever had a higher wage bill than Everton in Eddie's time

I'm sure we did given we started making expensive additons during the season - no transfer window then.

And I'm sure Everton's total bill was higher than ours but we were offering high salaries to particular players. Few teams in the top flight had a higher % wages to turnover ratio.

[Prufrock]

I still don't understand what that's supposed to show anyway. The comparison is 17 teams who were in the Prem the year before, and even more heavily subsidised fellow promotees Blackburn and Fulham.

Again, that other teams spent more is neither here nor there on the question of whether ED was putting his hand in his pocket to subsidise losses at a rate v few people could afford (even if some other people were subsidising other clubs at an even higher rate).

[Bruce Rioja]

I remember Everton's Moyes bemoaning the fact that Bolton were offering higher wages than Everton at the time.

We were also selling considerably more hospitality packages than Everton (Boxes at Goodison? None) Moyes's point was moot.

[BWFC_Insane]

I still don't understand what that's supposed to show anyway. The comparison is 17 teams who were in the Prem the year before, and even more heavily subsidised fellow promotees Blackburn and Fulham.

Again, that other teams spent more is neither here nor there on the question of whether ED was putting his hand in his pocket to subsidise losses at a rate v few people could afford (even if some other people were subsidising other clubs at an even higher rate).

In fairness I think there is a point that when ED first came in he wasn't paying out for first team. He made investments to improve training ground etc. And when we went up we were very cautious. The spending on first team came a season or two later really....

[BWFC_Insane]

I remember Everton's Moyes bemoaning the fact that Bolton were offering higher wages than Everton at the time.

We were also selling considerably more hospitality packages than Everton (Boxes at Goodison? None) Moyes's point was moot.

You were lucky to get a seat where you could see the pitch from at Everton nevermind a box....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

when we went up we were very cautious. The spending on first team came a season or two later really....

Which made perfect sense given only three or four years previously (in the doomed 97/98 season) we'd spent unwisely enough to threaten the club's future, hence Frandsen being sold off to Blackburn and Todd flouncing.

[Prufrock]

And again, *relatively*.

Anyway, one thing this reminds me of is all that chat that ED wasn't really being that generous, all the loans and losses were a big tax swizz to offset against his profit-making businesses.

Was there anything in that? I was about 12 at the time so my knowledge of tax reliefs wasn't that strong.

I know you couldn't do it now as there are restrictions on where you can carry losses in time and limits on the type of losses (e.g. from the same trade) but I also know the rules have tightened a lot in the last few years. Was that ever realistically the case?

[TANGODANCER]

"And during that sort of period I remember Everton's Moyes bemoaning the fact that Bolton were offering higher wages than Everton at the time.

"

Which sort of sums up in a general way what is still totally wrong with football/sport, today. Don't come to the auction if you can't afford to buy!.
That wouldn't really matter except to point out that we (Bolton) are unlikely to hit the big time ever again. We took a trip to Neverland and couldn't keep up the repayments so they sent the bailiffs in. Not totally our fault as we're no different than any others in wanting to keep up with the Joneses, but let's hope lessons have been learned by the sport in general. Highly unlikely, I know, but all balloons pop sometime. Manipulation is the name of the game with a whole gang of Ken Andersons and Bassinis ever hovering in the shadows like vultures over a sheep farm.

Meanwhile, Come on you Whites.....

[Worthy4England]

Just to be a picky bastard - the start of our downfall pre-dates Davies being on the board. We were £24m in debt in 1999. Situation not dissimilar to today. Difference is when Davies came on board, he actually had money and was happy to spend it.

In the early years whatever Eddie was spending his money on, it wasn't the team.When we were promoted in 2000/01 the other promoted clubs Fulham and Blackburn spent far money on their team.They also spent far more money on their team after winning promotion.
I think Bolton spent 650k on Henrik Pedersen that summer after promotion as opposed to Fulham splashing out £25 -30 million.

Not sure your assertion that it wasn't on the team is correct - it might not have been on headline transfer fees - but our model was not to pay them and try and get free agents where we could.

They probably did spend more on transfers but maybe not on salaries as well. In the year that Pedersen signed we signed Dean Holden, David Norris, Alan O'Hare, Colin Hendry, Kostas Konstandtinidis, Youri Djorkaeff, Stig Toftig, Mario Esparerto, Jeff Smith, Fredi Bobic, Gerald Forchelet, Derek Niven, Javi Viander, Kevin Poole, Rod Wallace, Bruno N'Gotty, Akinori Nishizawa, Henrik Pederson and Nicky Southall….

That was after signing 13 players the previous season.