Administration and recovery

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 38457
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Lost between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light a penny candle from a star.

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:05 pm

dave the minion wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:19 am
Jim White on TalkSport said he'd had a 3word text from KA: Ongoing talks. Optimistic.

Read into that what you will.....
It means he's optimistic of getting his hands on money. He isn't interested in anything else so that's all it can mean. Hope it also means we'll see the last of him for good.
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8503
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:11 pm

If Ken gets his hands on money we are saved
He’s not in for much if it’s liquidated

CrazyHorse
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 10542
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:51 pm
Location: Up above the streets and houses

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by CrazyHorse » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:17 pm

Slow news day isn't it?
Businesswoman of the year.

bristol_Wanderer3
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1711
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:53 pm

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:18 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:57 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:11 pm
I know what you said,
This is my non - ITK reckon inferred from the bits we do know. It is also pretty positive so would appreciate if nobody came along pointing out the flaws.

But!!
That would obviously be bad for KA. So I imagine the trustees are saying that they will also accept the eg 80% from KA but there is negotiation over some sort of indemnity for the trustees if they get sued down the line (i.e. Ken, MJ, FV, someone picks up the tab).
I really cannot get my head around this part, who the hell could sue EDT and for what exactly??

Sorry :oops:
I said no questions!

I mean sued by the beneficiaries of the EDT (e.g. ED's kids, grandkids, any charities who benefit).

Remember we have £5m loan from EDT to KA (don't know if we know if it was to KA personally or to a corporate vehicle). And then £5m loan from KA to club.

I *imagine* what is happening is FV have said to Ken, we'll give you e.g. £3.5m and he's said "fine, as long as EDT will take £3.5m from me". Now one way of looking at that is this is the best way for EDT to get as much money back. If they say no, club goes bust, Ken gets pennies in the £ and so EDT get pennies in the £. Another way is for EDT to say to Ken "you owe us £5M. That you then lent it to an insolvent football club is your problem, we want our £5m". Option b) would make the most sense but Christ only knows how Ken's assets are structured and how easy it would be for EDT to actually get their £5m, so they might decide a guaranteed £3.5m is better than a risky £5m.

Trustees are personally liable if they f*ck up when administering a trust. So it's possible that if EDT take option a) (settle for £3.5m), down the road one of Eddie's grandkids could sue the trustees saying that they should have taken option b) and there'd be more money.

I (baselessly) suspect that the trustees are only happy to sign off on taking e.g. £3.5m (and so Ken is only happy to sign off on taking £3.5m, no chance he'll agree to be out of pocket if he can help it) if someone indemnifies them against the risk of the trustees suing them later on.

My hope comes because it sounds like the hold up in the deal is Ken (he won't sign off on getting £3.5m if he owes EDT £5m). However, if push comes to shove, in liquidation he'd likely get much less than this e.g. £3.5m, still owing £5m, and so will sign off eventually).

Hope that makes sense, for the almost nothing that it is worth!
^^ Just a thought on the possible sums involved:

- In January 2017 KA issued a shiny, glossy prospectus aimed at city investors suggesting BWFC could be bought for £25m.
- In January 2017 we sell Zach Clough for £3m
- In September 2017 KA gains full control of BWFC
- In January 2018 we sell Gary Madine for £5m, paid up front, according to KA at the time, with a further bonus on Cardiff's possible promotion.
- June 2018 Cardiff are promoted, are quoted as paying us a bonus "in excess of £1m" and KA declares we made a small profit in 2017/18.
- September 2018 - Blumarble fiasco. ED apparently lent KA £5m, and after threatening to put us in admin, KA loans the club £5m. Tragic death of ED.
- March 2019 - FV pull out of buying the club citing hidden debts..
- August 2019 - Nixon says our debts were £41m. Similar figures have been mentioned elsewhere.

Now presumably that £25m sale price in Jan 2017 included a pay off for KA. So it is fair to say that the amount requiring to be paid off to buy BWFC, went from somewhere close to £20m in Jan 2017 to around £40m in 2019, despite a profitable season in 2017/18, and the sale of Clough.

Whilst we don't know the monetary path in the accrual of these debts, I would suggest it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that the amounts involved between EDT and KA are much, much higher than the £5m Blumarble loan...

nelson66
Promising
Promising
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by nelson66 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:11 pm

Tick Tock Tick Tock -- waiting for a flurry of activity at 4.55pm
The Whites Are Staying Up 2020 :pissed: :grin:

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:32 pm

The EFL's deadline bears little relevance now, barring a suspension of our fixtures, as it's the administrator's deadline for liquidation that matters. In that respect, I would think we have the rest of the evening and tomorrow morning, if not even longer, to conclude a deal for the takeover.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23249
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:41 pm

Looking bad for Bury at the moment. :-(

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12774
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Hoboh » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:44 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:32 pm
The EFL's deadline bears little relevance now, barring a suspension of our fixtures, as it's the administrator's deadline for liquidation that matters. In that respect, I would think we have the rest of the evening and tomorrow morning, if not even longer, to conclude a deal for the takeover.
If the EFL boot us out with Bury I think it has massive relevance, any potential buyer would not have to worry about funding the football side merely maximising any assets they could get their paws on and that given our situation for probably the next 5 years minimum of expenditure on the football side would be more than welcome to them :cry:

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:48 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:44 pm
nicholaldo wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:32 pm
The EFL's deadline bears little relevance now, barring a suspension of our fixtures, as it's the administrator's deadline for liquidation that matters. In that respect, I would think we have the rest of the evening and tomorrow morning, if not even longer, to conclude a deal for the takeover.
If the EFL boot us out with Bury I think it has massive relevance, any potential buyer would not have to worry about funding the football side merely maximising any assets they could get their paws on and that given our situation for probably the next 5 years minimum of expenditure on the football side would be more than welcome to them :cry:

That's not an option today for us. They can only lift the suspension on the Notice of Withdrawal, which is a fourteen day notice. Only after that notice period expires would we have our golden share withdrawn. The more pressing issue is that the administrator has told us there's not enough money to continue funding administration longer than tomorrow.

mrkint
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 2681
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:21 am
Location: On the hunt for Zat Knight's spinal cord

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by mrkint » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:50 pm

Bury's proposed takeover by C&N has collapsed https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/ ... 2575859715

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8503
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:52 pm

That’s a shitter for Bury.

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20001
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Prufrock » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:01 pm

F*ck. Hope that's some last minute brinkmanship.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

Bruce Rioja
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 35810
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Drifting into the arena of the unwell.

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:23 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:01 pm
F*ck. Hope that's some last minute brinkmanship.
I'm hearing that Dale's asked for more money.
May the bridges I burn light your way

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17164
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:26 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:23 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:01 pm
F*ck. Hope that's some last minute brinkmanship.
I'm hearing that Dale's asked for more money.
Seems deeper than that, if PA Media's chief sports reporter Matt Slater is to be believed.

"...it's grim but the celebrations on Friday night were very premature. The mortgages on the ground/bar taken out by Stewart Day (and fudged by Steve Dale in the CVA) are like unexploded bombs under the pitch...C&N can rightly say that there simply wasn't enough time to resolve those issues but - even if Day, Dale and their lenders had been angels during this process - I'm told the league had reservations about C&N's ability to deliver all the money needed to keep Bury in the EFL....I'm told there was one other radical proposal made today, from another party, but it was rejected. Meanwhile, Bolton are in real danger of joining Bury in...who knows? Northern Premier, probably. As of an hour ago, total stalemate between Ken Anderson and Eddie Davies Trust."

F*ck.

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17164
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:33 pm

Oh and if you want something the read while you wait, FourFourTwo have published my waffle.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/wh ... ppen-again

User avatar
TANGODANCER
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 38457
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 pm
Location: Lost between the Regency and the Rubaiyat and forever trying to light a penny candle from a star.

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:37 pm

So despite all else, we can safely assume a lot of lies have been told amongst all this. Bassini is still banging the savoir drum and A Game of Thrones doesn't even begin to go there.
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

mrkint
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 2681
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:21 am
Location: On the hunt for Zat Knight's spinal cord

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by mrkint » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:43 pm

Sky Sports News with a countdown timer to 5pm.

Not a good look lads.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17164
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:49 pm

mrkint wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:43 pm
Sky Sports News with a countdown timer to 5pm.

Not a good look lads.
And being rightly upbraided online for their tin-eared approach.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12774
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Hoboh » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:33 pm
Oh and if you want something the read while you wait, FourFourTwo have published my waffle.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/wh ... ppen-again
Good read DSB although I would have titled it, Rats in the sewers?

If Bury goes, I standby the thought the EPL will be gunning for us.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17164
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:59 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:33 pm
Oh and if you want something the read while you wait, FourFourTwo have published my waffle.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/wh ... ppen-again
Good read DSB although I would have titled it, Rats in the sewers?

If Bury goes, I standby the thought the EPL will be gunning for us.
Ta. It wasn't my headline: I'd suggested "Got any change?"

I think the EFL will genuinely hope they don't have to kill two clubs within a fortnight. They'll hope the expulsion of one might end the grubbing, ego-stroking and pissing contest at another. We'll see.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Harry Genshaw and 22 guests