League One 2019/20

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Prufrock » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:20 pm

There are more options than win every game 1-0 and lose every game 4-3.

I agree that results are important but I don't doubt there are plenty who would take *some* nod to enjoyable football over maximising every point.

I think Parky is the second best manager of my Bolton supporting career (I started in the dog days at the end of Todd). The football wasn't great to watch but a) the list of mitigating circumstances is as long as Zat Knight's legs. The club's existence depended on getting back into the championship and staying there, so yeah, fair feck*; and b) there were still plenty great moments and there was always an intent to win games at least in L1 (as with Allardyce but cf Megson who played for 0-0s). I don't mind managers shutting up shop once we're in front, as long as we try to get in front.

That all said the circumstances are different now. Our natural ceiling without wealthy owners is bottom 1/3 of the championship, and we're not going any lower than L2. I don't see why fans shouldn't want to see some swashbuckling football while we're down here. The current management team have had lower league success with that style with far fewer resources, so why shouldn't that be the aim. We shouldn't be running the club anymore where we have to cling on to championship status no matter what just to keep the club going.

We need to be looking for an edge somewhere else, recruitment, academy, sports science, whatever. Live in our means, recruit well and attack each season, hope we can fluke a double promotion to the Prem along the way but know if we get relegated to L1 or L2 the club will still exist. Otherwise enjoy it down here.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:08 pm

Southend have appointed Sol Campbell.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:03 pm

We won 2-0, away.
Southend, directly above us, lost 7-1 at home.
Wimbledon, next up, lost 1-0 at Burton.
Tranmere, above them, lost 5-0 at Sunderland (revenge for Parky).
MK Dons, above them, lost 2-0 at Rochdale.

Here's the Cann table, which displays points gaps to scale, from before tonight's game. Keep this as a memento, because I think we might be closing those gaps...

cann table 221019.png
cann table 221019.png (55.62 KiB) Viewed 682 times
We're now 18 points from safety with two games in hand on the Wirral wankers and three-quarters of our season to go...

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:49 pm

It's such a small sample size that it's barely worth bothering with, however, just to satisfy my curiosity, I've gone to the trouble of looking at what the league table would look like had Hill's first match in charge been the first match of the season and had we not started with a points deduction. Simply to get a bit of a barometer.

Even accounting for the baptism of fire that was Hill's (and practically the whole of the first-team's) debut, and him having to get a group of strangers to gel with each other in a very short timescale, and that we were, and no doubt still are, behind on match fitness, and our terrible luck with injuries, we'd now be fourth bottom, above the relegation zone, despite the three clubs below us each having played one match more.

Obviously, because it's so small a sample size, that “league table” could look very different come Saturday tea-time, but still, I thought it was worthy of note.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:10 pm

When you think about it, it's all so blxxdy unfair what the E.F.L do. We've had our bollox battered emotionally, financially, had the club sold after months of agony, had our players stripped away, and then, in step those doyens of fair play and equality, the E.F.L, lets expose cheating, drug-taking, kick racism out of football, etc etc...put us in administration and give us a size twelves right in the jewel box for something a greedy past owner was responsible for, and all just because they can. Long live the beautiful game and all who make a packet out of her.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:12 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:10 pm
When you think about it, it's all so blxxdy unfair what the E.F.L do. We've had our bollox battered emotionally, financially, had the club sold after months of agony, had our players stripped away, and then, in step those doyens of fair play and equality, the E.F.L, lets expose cheating, drug-taking, kick racism out of football, etc etc...put us in administration and give us a size twelves right in the jewel box for something a greedy past owner was responsible for, and all just because they can. Long live the beautiful game and all who make a packet out of her.
And they'll give us more points deductions too. Though months on they still haven't managed to decide on these.

I don't really think we can complain about the points deduction going into admin is an automatic 12 point fine. Its in the rules to stop clubs exploiting the administration route - like say Leicester did.

But I think the fact they will add further points on for the Brentford and Donny games when both situations were created with a large helping hand from the EFL is IMO wrong. Harvey caused much of the problems around Brentford with his statements and later revealed background texts to Mr Bassini. So the EFL should admit they were part of the problem. The EFL also should have helped with the Doncaster game given the FA development rules clearly indicated it wasn't suitable for the kids to play that game - and given they were the ones approving each game. They were asked to postpone it but refused. That's also on them because clearly they'd been part of the reason we were in that position but when the going got tough they just put their hands up and walked away.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Prufrock » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:18 am

And that it's what, six months since Brentford. All this talk of the "integrity" of the league and noone fecking knows where we stand.

Agreed no complaints on the 12.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Bertie Wooster » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:38 am

Everyone has accepted the 12 point deduction due to going into admin - but why should we get any further punishment for the Doncaster game, it was only postponed & will still be played. It was a young player welfare issue following the leagues guidelines - its not much different to a team having a game postponed due to players away on international games i.e. Burton (they only had 2 players on international duty) or a game being postponed due to a mass illness (flu) affecting several players, or a even water logged due to a club not having spent any money on adequate drainage.

They cant punish us for Doncaster as the game will still go ahead, and with Brentford it was 6 months ago and again IMO its far too late to punish us now. We had no team for the first 5 games which meant that we only won 1 point and up until last night we where 21 points behind 4th bottom - how much more punishment should we receive ffs. Also if they deduct any further points it will again effect the integrity of the league as we would then have absolutely no chance of avoiding relegation & if they take that 'slight' carrot away from us, there is no incentive for us to be competitive in the remaining games so we may lose every game & then those teams who have played us when we had a remote chance i.e. Bristol Rovers, Sunderland, Oxford, Blackpool could then complain.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Prufrock » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:58 am

I still think we'll get something for Brentford at least. They're going to be v wary of letting clubs get away with striking players given how often they go unpaid in the lower leagues. Fingers crossed it's suspended because new owners blah blah. Either way 6 months on it's pathetic from the EFL.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:04 am

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:38 am
Everyone has accepted the 12 point deduction due to going into admin - but why should we get any further punishment for the Doncaster game, it was only postponed & will still be played. It was a young player welfare issue following the leagues guidelines - its not much different to a team having a game postponed due to players away on international games i.e. Burton (they only had 2 players on international duty) or a game being postponed due to a mass illness (flu) affecting several players, or a even water logged due to a club not having spent any money on adequate drainage.

They cant punish us for Doncaster as the game will still go ahead, and with Brentford it was 6 months ago and again IMO its far too late to punish us now. We had no team for the first 5 games which meant that we only won 1 point and up until last night we where 21 points behind 4th bottom - how much more punishment should we receive ffs. Also if they deduct any further points it will again effect the integrity of the league as we would then have absolutely no chance of avoiding relegation & if they take that 'slight' carrot away from us, there is no incentive for us to be competitive in the remaining games so we may lose every game & then those teams who have played us when we had a remote chance i.e. Bristol Rovers, Sunderland, Oxford, Blackpool could then complain.
Agree with this - one slight correction the guidelines re young players are not the leagues, but the FA's and intended for development stages.

So league can argue they are FA guidelines and aren't relevant to the situation we were in. However, the EFL put kids' development and futures on the line to save face. They should be ashamed of doing so.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by DJBlu » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:21 am

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:38 am
Everyone has accepted the 12 point deduction due to going into admin - but why should we get any further punishment for the Doncaster game, it was only postponed & will still be played. It was a young player welfare issue following the leagues guidelines - its not much different to a team having a game postponed due to players away on international games i.e. Burton (they only had 2 players on international duty) or a game being postponed due to a mass illness (flu) affecting several players, or a even water logged due to a club not having spent any money on adequate drainage.

They cant punish us for Doncaster as the game will still go ahead, and with Brentford it was 6 months ago and again IMO its far too late to punish us now. We had no team for the first 5 games which meant that we only won 1 point and up until last night we where 21 points behind 4th bottom - how much more punishment should we receive ffs. Also if they deduct any further points it will again effect the integrity of the league as we would then have absolutely no chance of avoiding relegation & if they take that 'slight' carrot away from us, there is no incentive for us to be competitive in the remaining games so we may lose every game & then those teams who have played us when we had a remote chance i.e. Bristol Rovers, Sunderland, Oxford, Blackpool could then complain.
I think the EFL know what we are getting and will hold out until the end of the season for the reasons you say. Any further punishment at this stage will affect the integrity of the competition. I wouldn't hold any hope that we aren't going to get punished as they binned off Bury without batting an eyelid.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:23 pm

We should go after the useless wankers legally and challenge any deduction. They are on the ropes right now and might just cave in. Although then other clubs would go mad so I don't know.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:24 pm

At best I'd hope for a suspended sentence for the Brentford game. The unforgiveable thing re Doncaster was 'us' unilaterally postponing it and making a statement before informing the opposition. The Administrators did us no favours with what appeared to be an arrogant action.

I'm expecting at least another -6 but how it's taken so long is beyond my ken
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:45 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:24 pm
At best I'd hope for a suspended sentence for the Brentford game. The unforgiveable thing re Doncaster was 'us' unilaterally postponing it and making a statement before informing the opposition. The Administrators did us no favours with what appeared to be an arrogant action.

I'm expecting at least another -6 but how it's taken so long is beyond my ken
It's so they can fudge it. Wait til we're good as down then it makes no difference.
Gutless shitbags did the same with Birmingham last season. Soon as they couldn't make the playoffs they got a deduction just small enough not to relegate them.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:01 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:45 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:24 pm
At best I'd hope for a suspended sentence for the Brentford game. The unforgiveable thing re Doncaster was 'us' unilaterally postponing it and making a statement before informing the opposition. The Administrators did us no favours with what appeared to be an arrogant action.

I'm expecting at least another -6 but how it's taken so long is beyond my ken
It's so they can fudge it. Wait til we're good as down then it makes no difference.
Gutless shitbags did the same with Birmingham last season. Soon as they couldn't make the playoffs they got a deduction just small enough not to relegate them.
Unfortunately, however small, it may be the opposite for us. Anything on top of the 12 will pull the plug.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:24 pm

I think they want to wait til the plug is already pulled so they can be seen to be strict without altering the result Tango.
Realistically we've no chance even with a few wins, but they'll want to wait I think.
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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:45 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:24 pm
I think they want to wait til the plug is already pulled so they can be seen to be strict without altering the result Tango.
Realistically we've no chance even with a few wins, but they'll want to wait I think.
It's quite possibly the case L.E. Either way they aren't there to do us any favours or themselves any harm. "Quia non potest.." should be their motto....
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:02 am

Doesn't help that they haven't had a leader for a while. And I'm not even talking about Harvey - he left after last season. Mind, it's supposed to be an "independent panel" so they needn't have waited.

But they're storing up problems for The Integrity Of The Competition the longer it goes on. Birmingham fans will be incandescent if their "accounting slip" is more harshly punished than our unilateral withdrawal from not one but two games - the very point of the league. And as has been noted (by Prufrock recently and me since April), with late payment endemic they will want to make sure hard-up clubs and pissed-off players alike aren't tempted into similar shenanigans.

After Brentford I think I predicted a 6pt or 9pt deduction. I don't think they'll double that but it won't be a mild slap and I'd be amazed if it's suspended as suggested yesterday - this isn't normal and they need to make that perfectly clear. For all the "football brotherhood" froth earlier in the season, clemency would produce hoots of derision from Southend, Wombles and the tight bunch above them, and understandably so. What Accy chairman Andy Holt would say, I can only imagine (because I've stopped following the garrulous gobshite).

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:40 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:24 pm
At best I'd hope for a suspended sentence for the Brentford game. The unforgiveable thing re Doncaster was 'us' unilaterally postponing it and making a statement before informing the opposition. The Administrators did us no favours with what appeared to be an arrogant action.

I'm expecting at least another -6 but how it's taken so long is beyond my ken
We went to the EFL and showed them the FA guidelines - and asked them to postpone it. They said no.

I think this is oft missed. But the bigger picture was every game we played gave Anderson and EDT more scope to delay and frustrate should they choose to. The EFL put us in that position by failing to put a deadline on it from the start. They were assured prior to Wycombe that it would be done - when a few days after that it wasn't they should have immediately started the same clock Bury were under. They were asked to enough times. Sadly their interest in actually helping the takeover was very superficial.

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Re: League One 2019/20

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:14 pm

^ Ultimately though the EFL and Doncaster found out about the postponement via the media. That was really poor and I'm sure won't do us any favours
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