What is our best starting eleven?

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:30 am

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:10 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:40 am
Don’t have to apologise for a well-written, thoughtful post... especially as I agree with most of it :)

Not that I’m rooted to my views: I genuinely hope to see this different Weir that you and BWFCi have seen to the lad I saw treading water at Wycombe and Gillingham. He’s in a funny spot, much older than the kids, and needs to establish himself. Good luck to him.

One thing to note is that we really haven’t got much “senior” squad to play with, so there’ll be kids on the bench. Politic and Brockbank have a case for inclusion, with Darcy and Zouma (maybe King Harmes) not far behind. That’s another balance for Hill - would sitting on the bench every week help or harm them?
Re Weir: You can add the Ipswich game to that. Based on the Ipswich and Gilingham games he would be lucky to make the bench going forward.

I think we have a real issue now at left back. I can't see a solution for that position based on our current squad until Earl is fit. Hill seems to like progressive football with lots of possession, which usually means attacking, energetic full backs, so I don't see Brockbank being used at full back. So possibly Lowe and Emmanuel as full backs with perhaps the more experienced Lowe out of position? Politic is a real talent imho, and being match fit, might retain his place.

So I'll have a stab at:

Matthwes

Emmanuel
Hobbs
Wright
Lowe

Bridcutt
Murphy (L)
Crawford

Verlinden / Politic
Buckley
Murphy (D)
See I'd put more or less anyone in ahead of Luke Murphy - Weir miles ahead on what I've seen. But we shall see.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Jugs » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:35 am

Probably agree with most others so far, give or take a few players. I'd take out Luke Murphy and I'd have Buckely in as a definite starter.

I kinda concur with Bruce that - since most of us have never heard of some of these lads - it's hard to pick an XI. But at the same time, it probably largely picks itself because we're not exactly spoilt are we haha.

Guess we'll know more after these next 2-3 games

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:28 pm

Indeed, whoever you pick the lack of (senior) options is demonstrated by the bench.

I don't know what Hill will do (and none of us know how fit these new lads are) but I hope he minimises the usage of square pegs. I can understand why people are suggesting playing Lowe or Emmanuel out of position at left-back, but unless Rotherham have a particularly dangerous right-winger I'd be minded to keep young White there and tell Jake Wright (among others) to mentor him through the game.

I'd go Matthews; Emmanuel, Hobbs, Wright, White; Bridcutt, Lowe, Crawford; Verlinden, D Murphy, Buckley. (Ideally, I'd rather have somebody more dynamic than Lowe, but he's a wise head, it's an away game, that's a front three and we have two attacking full-backs.) Which would leave a bench of Alnwick, Brockbank, L Murphy, Weir, Politic, O'Grady and one more kid, which might be Darcy unless we need someone else to 'cover' one of the first XI who isn't expected to last the 90.

It will also be intriguing to see the warm-ups (no really) at Rotherham. It was interesting to watch Parkin, Allamby etc putting the back four/five through their paces while the rest played short-sided games; Darby etc stepped in more recently when Parky and Parkin left, but sports-science chief Allamby and GK coach Lee Butler were still there at Gillingham and are still listed on the club site, along with head physio Matt Barrass and chief scout Tim Breacker, despite the latter's lack of petrol coupons. How long will the backroom staff last - and what shape they take under the new, near-comanagers - remains to be seen.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Jugs » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm

^^ I read that Rochdale had a 16 year old at full-back for their recent game v Sunderland, and that he played a blinder against McGeady. There's a lot to be said for playing one or two youngsters, and I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two start against Rotherham, whether circumstances call for it or not.

It's when we were playing 9 or 11 youngsters that we had problems.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:30 pm

Alnwick over Matthews for me any day of the week. Why has he disappeared off the face of the earth?

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:39 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:30 pm
Alnwick over Matthews for me any day of the week. Why has he disappeared off the face of the earth?
Was wondering where he'd gone. Wondered if he was trying to do an Oztumer, but nothing at all has been said. Iles has been ignoring Twitter questions on it as far as I can see.
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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:49 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:39 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:30 pm
Alnwick over Matthews for me any day of the week. Why has he disappeared off the face of the earth?
Was wondering where he'd gone. Wondered if he was trying to do an Oztumer, but nothing at all has been said. Iles has been ignoring Twitter questions on it as far as I can see.
Talk is (and I believe Iles hinted at this a while ago) that situation over summer affected his personal circumstances badly and he hasn't been in right frame of mind.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:50 pm

I think there’s summat up there. Hope the lads ok, always been a steady pair of hands. As I said, he’d be my first choice keeper all day long.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:22 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:50 pm
I think there’s summat up there. Hope the lads ok, always been a steady pair of hands. As I said, he’d be my first choice keeper all day long.
Mine too. Matthews always looks a little more prone to making a mistake.
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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by irie Cee Bee » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:41 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:28 pm
Indeed, whoever you pick the lack of (senior) options is demonstrated by the bench.

I don't know what Hill will do (and none of us know how fit these new lads are) but I hope he minimises the usage of square pegs. I can understand why people are suggesting playing Lowe or Emmanuel out of position at left-back, but unless Rotherham have a particularly dangerous right-winger I'd be minded to keep young White there and tell Jake Wright (among others) to mentor him through the game.

I'd go Matthews; Emmanuel, Hobbs, Wright, White; Bridcutt, Lowe, Crawford; Verlinden, D Murphy, Buckley. (Ideally, I'd rather have somebody more dynamic than Lowe, but he's a wise head, it's an away game, that's a front three and we have two attacking full-backs.) Which would leave a bench of Alnwick, Brockbank, L Murphy, Weir, Politic, O'Grady and one more kid, which might be Darcy unless we need someone else to 'cover' one of the first XI who isn't expected to last the 90.

It will also be intriguing to see the warm-ups (no really) at Rotherham. It was interesting to watch Parkin, Allamby etc putting the back four/five through their paces while the rest played short-sided games; Darby etc stepped in more recently when Parky and Parkin left, but sports-science chief Allamby and GK coach Lee Butler were still there at Gillingham and are still listed on the club site, along with head physio Matt Barrass and chief scout Tim Breacker, despite the latter's lack of petrol coupons. How long will the backroom staff last - and what shape they take under the new, near-comanagers - remains to be seen.
Nice 11. Need a Centre Back on the bench for cover - Zouma possibly.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:44 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:22 pm
Matthews always looks a little more prone to making a mistake.
While I agree he certainly has a slip in him, he has also made 26 saves in four games this season. His nearest rival for that stat, Lincoln's Josh Vickers, has made 22 from seven appearances. It's 6.5 per game; nobody else who's appeared more than once has topped two. Oh and 21 of Remi's 26 saves have been from efforts inside the area (whereas for Vickers, more than half have been from outside the box).

Last season, Remi averaged 3.9 saves per game, which was more than any other Champo GK who'd played 3+ games except the two Reading goalkeepers (each 4.1 saves per game). Ben Alnwick, as you ask, averaged 2.5 saves per game - 31st of the 47 keepers who made 3+ Champo appearances.

I know we've discussed before that goalkeeping is about more than just making saves but it's still rather important, and Matthews does it more than most. Here's hoping he doesn't have to stay as busy from here on in.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:45 pm

irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:41 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:28 pm
I'd go Matthews; Emmanuel, Hobbs, Wright, White; Bridcutt, Lowe, Crawford; Verlinden, D Murphy, Buckley. (Ideally, I'd rather have somebody more dynamic than Lowe, but he's a wise head, it's an away game, that's a front three and we have two attacking full-backs.) Which would leave a bench of Alnwick, Brockbank, L Murphy, Weir, Politic, O'Grady and one more kid, which might be Darcy unless we need someone else to 'cover' one of the first XI who isn't expected to last the 90.
Nice 11. Need a Centre Back on the bench for cover - Zouma possibly.
I'd have Brockers covering centre-back. Shouldn't need two.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:56 pm

Some picked up injuries according to KH. Daryl Murphy not in any training photos so seems like perhaps one who won't play.

Also said some need further work before being put into the side.

Sounds like some young lads will be starting on Saturday still.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:07 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:49 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:39 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:30 pm
Alnwick over Matthews for me any day of the week. Why has he disappeared off the face of the earth?
Was wondering where he'd gone. Wondered if he was trying to do an Oztumer, but nothing at all has been said. Iles has been ignoring Twitter questions on it as far as I can see.
Talk is (and I believe Iles hinted at this a while ago) that situation over summer affected his personal circumstances badly and he hasn't been in right frame of mind.
Let's hope it's remedied soon for his sake and ours. All hands on deck and all that. Plus like many I'd pick him over Matthews.
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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:04 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:44 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:22 pm
Matthews always looks a little more prone to making a mistake.
While I agree he certainly has a slip in him, he has also made 26 saves in four games this season. His nearest rival for that stat, Lincoln's Josh Vickers, has made 22 from seven appearances. It's 6.5 per game; nobody else who's appeared more than once has topped two. Oh and 21 of Remi's 26 saves have been from efforts inside the area (whereas for Vickers, more than half have been from outside the box).

Last season, Remi averaged 3.9 saves per game, which was more than any other Champo GK who'd played 3+ games except the two Reading goalkeepers (each 4.1 saves per game). Ben Alnwick, as you ask, averaged 2.5 saves per game - 31st of the 47 keepers who made 3+ Champo appearances.

I know we've discussed before that goalkeeping is about more than just making saves but it's still rather important, and Matthews does it more than most. Here's hoping he doesn't have to stay as busy from here on in.
Whereas I don't doubt the numbers (and thanks for digging them out), I'm really not sure it's as simple as simply counting 'saves per game'. A closer measure would shirley be shots made per goals conceded, no? And even then, there are all manner of other factors to consider beyond the crudity of the numbers, reasonable guide nonetheless.
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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:36 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:04 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:44 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:22 pm
Matthews always looks a little more prone to making a mistake.
While I agree he certainly has a slip in him, he has also made 26 saves in four games this season. His nearest rival for that stat, Lincoln's Josh Vickers, has made 22 from seven appearances. It's 6.5 per game; nobody else who's appeared more than once has topped two. Oh and 21 of Remi's 26 saves have been from efforts inside the area (whereas for Vickers, more than half have been from outside the box).

Last season, Remi averaged 3.9 saves per game, which was more than any other Champo GK who'd played 3+ games except the two Reading goalkeepers (each 4.1 saves per game). Ben Alnwick, as you ask, averaged 2.5 saves per game - 31st of the 47 keepers who made 3+ Champo appearances.

I know we've discussed before that goalkeeping is about more than just making saves but it's still rather important, and Matthews does it more than most. Here's hoping he doesn't have to stay as busy from here on in.
Whereas I don't doubt the numbers (and thanks for digging them out), I'm really not sure it's as simple as simply counting 'saves per game'. A closer measure would shirley be shots made per goals conceded, no? And even then, there are all manner of other factors to consider beyond the crudity of the numbers, reasonable guide nonetheless.
Bit busy today and the numbers aren't easy to find at third-tier level, but as "saves made" is [attempts on target] minus [goals], it's not quite the shots-per-goal you request but it's not far off it.

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:40 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:36 am
Bit busy today and the numbers aren't easy to find at third-tier level, but as "saves made" is [attempts on target] minus [goals], it's not quite the shots-per-goal you request but it's not far off it.
Soz, should of course read 'saves' made. My broader point though in relation to simply presenting these things numerically, and going back to my original point that I feel more comfortable with Alnwick in goal rather than Matthews is, and I'm using extremes here, of course;

If goalkeeper A lets one slip between his hands but it smacks him in the face and it bounces to safety - One save.
If goalkeeper B then dives full length to tip one over that's otherwise rocketing towards the top corner - still one save.
If goalkeeper A then 'does a Ben Amos' and manages to dive all over a weak shot which he allows to pass underneath him - one goal conceded.
If goalkeeper B then turns a Platini free-kick on to the underside of the bar which bounces down a centimetre over the line - still one goal conceded.

So, that stats show these two to be equal, but which one would you prefer in your side?
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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:52 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:40 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:36 am
Bit busy today and the numbers aren't easy to find at third-tier level, but as "saves made" is [attempts on target] minus [goals], it's not quite the shots-per-goal you request but it's not far off it.
Soz, should of course read 'saves' made. My broader point though in relation to simply presenting these things numerically, and going back to my original point that I feel more comfortable with Alnwick in goal rather than Matthews is, and I'm using extremes here, of course;

If goalkeeper A lets one slip between his hands but it smacks him in the face and it bounces to safety - One save.
If goalkeeper B then dives full length to tip one over that's otherwise rocketing towards the top corner - still one save.
If goalkeeper A then 'does a Ben Amos' and manages to dive all over a weak shot which he allows to pass underneath him - one goal conceded.
If goalkeeper B then turns a Platini free-kick on to the underside of the bar which bounces down a centimetre over the line - still one goal conceded.

So, that stats show these two to be equal, but which one would you prefer in your side?
That's the difference between qualitative and quantitative evidence. I take it then that you're a fan of xG, which is more the former? :D

Here's a less extreme, more relevant thing. If goalkeeper A makes six saves per game but lets in one howler, is he better or worse than goalkeeper B who makes no howlers but still only saves two out of four efforts?

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:09 pm

Some excellent hypothesising!

If you have say goalkeeper BA who seems generally pretty decent and you can’t remember any howlers. And you also have goalkeeper RM who dropped the ball at the foot of a striker at Wigan and let one slip through his hands at Leeds last season.

I’d pick BA!! Generally more solid I reckon. Last thing we need is a hard worked result being undone by a moment of madness. He’s been facing 20+ shots a game so I would hope he is making the most saves!

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Re: What is our best starting eleven?

Post by Prufrock » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:16 pm

You missed Wycombe.
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