Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

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Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Branagan » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:19 am

Latest from the BEN suggests there could be big changes afoot at the Academy - with some noses being put out of joint in the process.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... ce-change/

“What worries me is that people are opposing necessary changes at this football club, necessary to survive financially. We can’t go back to frivolous spending.

“I love developing players and I am brutally honest about it but unfortunately people get offended by it.”

Do we think it's Phillips and Lee that haven't been quite so welcoming of Hill's arrival, especially if he's been telling them he expects something different from them? We know Lee wanted the manager's job and I've read that Phillips has been annoyed at being overlooked in the past. Add to that they've had nothing but praise (at least externally) for the Academy to date and Hill coming in with new ideas could rub them the wrong way.

As well as working out what exactly is going on here. I thought it might be good to have a thread that keeps tabs on the youngsters that do or don't come through the ranks to see whether Hill really can turn us into a real exporter of talent.

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:22 am

I might be seeing it wrong, but reading between lines it might seem Hill is having a dig at salaries in his remarks about spending? Whose salaries might that be?
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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:30 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:22 am
I might be seeing it wrong, but reading between lines it might seem Hill is having a dig at salaries in his remarks about spending? Whose salaries might that be?
He's having a go at the lack of productivity of the academy - and saying that needs to change - he's essentially saying we need to produce our own players and to do so the coaches in the academy need to change. It reads as a dig at Jimmy Phillips really.

Not sure it needed saying publicly. Best kept in house for me.

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Branagan » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:43 am

I read it as a Jimmy dig too. Reckon he's on the way out?

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Hoboh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Yawn...

Saviour of the club is the academy, don't forget all the Beckham's, Scholes, Ronaldo's it has produced since Philips, an average at best player but wore his heart on his sleeve and others took it on.

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:24 pm

I agree with KH on this. The Academy can win all the awards it wants, but its primary function is to bring players through, and it isn't doing that to an acceptable level. Now, previously the kids were lucky to get a sniff anyway as the likes of Freeman, Lennon and Parkinson all favoured bringing in their old mates first and foremost, but now our recruiting has to start at academy level. Of course, they're not all going to make it, but we need a better return than we've previously had.
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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:22 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:30 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:22 am
I might be seeing it wrong, but reading between lines it might seem Hill is having a dig at salaries in his remarks about spending? Whose salaries might that be?
He's having a go at the lack of productivity of the academy - and saying that needs to change - he's essentially saying we need to produce our own players and to do so the coaches in the academy need to change. It reads as a dig at Jimmy Phillips really.

Not sure it needed saying publicly. Best kept in house for me.
He says, quote:

“What worries me is that people are opposing necessary changes at this football club, necessary to survive financially. We can’t go back to frivolous spending. You can’t spend that type of money or run up that type of debt and expect there to be no change.”

That's what I meant about salaries. Buying players and paying their wages are his and the board's territory, not JP'S. I doubt he's talking about kit sales or season tickets, that isn't his territory financially. The academy and it's running is also Keith Hill's overall responsibility as club manager. One of the first things he'll have been told is "cut costs" . He's obviously showing he's got the message. J.P or anyone else will get the "My way or the highway" hymn sheet and had better learn the words rapidly. That's how I see it. .
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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:23 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:24 pm
I agree with KH on this. The Academy can win all the awards it wants, but its primary function is to bring players through, and it isn't doing that to an acceptable level. Now, previously the kids were lucky to get a sniff anyway as the likes of Freeman, Lennon and Parkinson all favoured bringing in their old mates first and foremost, but now our recruiting has to start at academy level. Of course, they're not all going to make it, but we need a better return than we've previously had.
I agree with him - I'm just not sure he needs to be quite so vociferous with what does seem like personal criticism in public.

I've thought for a while we need to evaluate the academy, u18 and u23 setups - and Hill will do so. Yet we had people clamouring for DL to get the managers job......for some unknown reason.

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:26 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:22 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:30 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:22 am
I might be seeing it wrong, but reading between lines it might seem Hill is having a dig at salaries in his remarks about spending? Whose salaries might that be?
He's having a go at the lack of productivity of the academy - and saying that needs to change - he's essentially saying we need to produce our own players and to do so the coaches in the academy need to change. It reads as a dig at Jimmy Phillips really.

Not sure it needed saying publicly. Best kept in house for me.
He says, quote:

“What worries me is that people are opposing necessary changes at this football club, necessary to survive financially. We can’t go back to frivolous spending. You can’t spend that type of money or run up that type of debt and expect there to be no change.”

That's what I meant about salaries. Buying players and paying their wages are his and the board's territory, not JP'S. I doubt he's talking about kit sales or season tickets, that isn't his territory financially. The academy and it's running is also Keith Hill's overall responsibility as club manager. One of the first things he'll have been told is "cut costs" . He's obviously showing he's got the message. J.P or anyone else will get the "My way or the highway" hymn sheet and had better learn the words rapidly. That's how I see it. .
He's talking about the club needing to produce its own players rather than spend fortunes on signings as we did under ED's ownership. And his argument is that the academy staff and youth team coaches need to change in order to improve the production of those young players. Its not about salaries - its about Hill's past comments about our young players working too much in the gym and not with a ball and also being kept back too much until too late a stage in their development.

The finance bit is purely "we're now a lower league team without lots of money so to be successful we need to bring through lots of good players and therefore people need to change what they're doing cos its not working".

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:35 pm

Regardless as to his "It's aimed at everybody" assertion, I find it impossible to read “Don’t fear change, don’t fear challenge, don’t go and hide in an office somewhere – get out on the training pitch, do your job, be a coach.” without thinking that that's aimed at one person and one person alone.
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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Branagan » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:54 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:35 pm
Regardless as to his "It's aimed at everybody" assertion, I find it impossible to read “Don’t fear change, don’t fear challenge, don’t go and hide in an office somewhere – get out on the training pitch, do your job, be a coach.” without thinking that that's aimed at one person and one person alone.
Agreed, and the "don't hide in an office somewhere" bit takes it beyond philosophy and hypothetical. Someone linked to the academy is clearly refusing to cooperate with Hill or at the very least is delegating too much for his liking, hence 'get out on the training pitch'. Either way, sounds like someone's on their way and I can only think it's JP. Who else will have an office at the academy apart from anything else?

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:06 pm

He's a cock talking like that to the press. Powers that be need to rein him in. Might well be absolutely right but needs to be said privately in one of the office hidey holes rather than to the press.
Happy with his work with the squad, which is the main thing, but the running off of his mouth I can do without. If it's not his usual rambling nonsense, then it's creating division.
Exactly the opposite of what the new owners are supposed to be all.about.
Oh, but surely just for one day, we could fight and we could win
And if only for a little while, we could insist on the impossible...

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Hoboh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:45 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:06 pm
He's a cock talking like that to the press. Powers that be need to rein him in. Might well be absolutely right but needs to be said privately in one of the office hidey holes rather than to the press.
Happy with his work with the squad, which is the main thing, but the running off of his mouth I can do without. If it's not his usual rambling nonsense, then it's creating division.
Exactly the opposite of what the new owners are supposed to be all.about.
Why do some people think you have to hide everything critical behind closed doors? Yes BWFC is a private company but it has a public responsibility as well due to being dependent on public support to keep said public informed of how it progresses. Too many people hide their failings behind closed doors, biggest example at the moment, the MET police, so you think that kind of mentality is ok? just hide failure away? protect and wrap everyone up in cotton wool and say that's the real world? :hang:

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:10 pm

^ I think there's a world of difference between the two scenarios tbf!

The academy has been doing OK, certainly when compared to the barren years of the 90s & when compared with other similar size clubs. For the last ten years we've had managers too afraid to give the kids a chance unless there's been an injury crisis. Our circumstances now, suggests many more will get that chance in the next couple of years. Hopefully several will go on to do well for us or be sold at a tidy profit
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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:10 pm
^ I think there's a world of difference between the two scenarios tbf!

The academy has been doing OK, certainly when compared to the barren years of the 90s & when compared with other similar size clubs. For the last ten years we've had managers too afraid to give the kids a chance unless there's been an injury crisis. Our circumstances now, suggests many more will get that chance in the next couple of years. Hopefully several will go on to do well for us or be sold at a tidy profit
The thing about managers not giving them a chance - its quite clear he few that had even a hope were given a chance. Its just the quality wasn't there.

I don't think he should say it publicly but I do think Hill is right - we need a shake up. Not enough have come through. And it has to change.

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:48 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:06 pm
He's a cock talking like that to the press.
To be honest, I'm starting to get used to it. I don't like it, but airing the club's dirty laundry in public seems to be what he does.
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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:30 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:45 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:06 pm
He's a cock talking like that to the press. Powers that be need to rein him in. Might well be absolutely right but needs to be said privately in one of the office hidey holes rather than to the press.
Happy with his work with the squad, which is the main thing, but the running off of his mouth I can do without. If it's not his usual rambling nonsense, then it's creating division.
Exactly the opposite of what the new owners are supposed to be all.about.
Why do some people think you have to hide everything critical behind closed doors? Yes BWFC is a private company but it has a public responsibility as well due to being dependent on public support to keep said public informed of how it progresses. Too many people hide their failings behind closed doors, biggest example at the moment, the MET police, so you think that kind of mentality is ok? just hide failure away? protect and wrap everyone up in cotton wool and say that's the real world? :hang:
Talk about going off on rambling tangents and irrelevant analogies. Worse than the man himself.
Was about to respond but you've so completely twisted what I said that I can't be arsed. Just reread my post.
I did say I'd avoid listening to anything Keith Hill says and I'll stick to it. The footballs improving, I'll stick to that.
I will say one thing, he's got form for slagging off fans, so I see an unpleasant fall out if anyone dares to criticise him or the team. Let's hope there's no reason to eh?
Oh, but surely just for one day, we could fight and we could win
And if only for a little while, we could insist on the impossible...

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:07 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm
The thing about managers not giving them a chance - its quite clear he few that had even a hope were given a chance. Its just the quality wasn't there.
I don't think it's clear at all. There's loads of promising youngsters who drift out of the game because they don't get chance to develop by playing against better players.

Teams like Bury and Crewe have in the past produced large numbers of first teamers through their youth system because their finances and thin squads necessitated giving them a run in the first team.
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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:47 am

Transfermarkt has an interesting page on each club: under History then Youth Academy, it lists the alumni and what they've gone on to do. Here's ours:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bolton- ... on=0&art=0

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Re: Keith Hill's School For Gifted Youngsters

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:10 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:48 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:06 pm
He's a cock talking like that to the press.
To be honest, I'm starting to get used to it. I don't like it, but airing the club's dirty laundry in public seems to be what he does.
He says its to get a response. Perhaps he is right.

I was not a huge fan at first but he's growing on me - I hope that he can execute his plan as well as he talks about it.

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