Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
LeverEnd
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8151
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 pm
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by LeverEnd » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:43 am

I think you're doing that binary thing again...
...

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20001
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Prufrock » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:10 pm

I wasn’t going to, I really wasn’t, but since DSB insists!

Timothy Michael Ream was absolute toss. I’m not being hyperbolic when I say I genuinely believe there’s an argument that he might be in an all-time worst Premier League XI (not all time worst BWFC Prem XI, but competition wide).

That Fulham team last year might be the worst ever at the back, and Tim and his pal Denis Odoi managed to stand out like reverse lighthouses as shining beacons of catastrophe.

The Derby County team of 07-08 widely remembered as the worst team in footballing history* conceded 89 goals. They conceded loads because they had genuinely no good players at all (Andy Todd played 15 games for them. In the Premier League. In 2007!), and finished with 11 points. Fulham last year actually had an all right side from the middle on, got 26 points and scored a few goals. They went down hopelessly because they were dreadful, dreadful at the back. I honestly laughed out loud at Tim Ream’s defending on at least two occasions on Match of the Day last year. My favourite moment was what looked like a tight offside call until they spun the camera and looked along the line and there, literally 8 yards behind the rest of his pals, halfway across the pitch nowhere near the ball, for absolutely no reason, was young Tim.

LE is absolutely right that there are certain groups of fans who will love any defender who is big and strong and goes clattering into people before leathering it into the posh seats (see Zoumas, Y and K). But there is an equal and opposite reaction of people who like a chin-stroking counter-argument as soon as anyone tries to play any football at all.

I’m happy to admit that, particularly when you’ve been treated to a few years of Zat Knight and big Dave, Ream was decent on the ball. Maybe once a game he’d take a long ball down on the chest instead of 20p-ing it away, and quite often he’d find a little 15 yard diag into midfield or to a winger. This is a good thing, but boy oh boy is it *not* *enough*. The problem if you’re a centre-back is that sooner or later, you are going to have to defend. And if you are horrifically, horrifically bad at that, then no little punched pass here or recovery run to bail out Zat is going to be make up for it.

Then we had that weird spell where everyone wanted him to play in central midfield. Well that was a fun experiment. Watching 10 Bolton players spread the width of the D outside their box and still Fulham playing through with ease on a dark, dark night at the cottage is not why Ream is terrible, but it certainly ended that debate. People were yearning for anybody who didn’t have toblerone boots (Darren Pratley played as a number 10 that night) so much that they wanted anyone with any technical ability to play, no matter how shite they were otherwise.

Ugh, he’s a sorry, sorry footnote in our history.

And also, by the by, stop going to Nandos you weird f*ck. I know you’re in a hotel in a new country but you’ve got to help yourself.

I agree with DSB on Cahill - that Arsenal should’ve bought him but they baulked at the fee, we got semi-screwed over and Gaz finished with a Champions League, 2 Prem titles and 60 England caps. It didn’t help Ream to come in after Cahill who was a ball-playing defender (certainly by the standards of the time) who could actually defend.



*since Rupert Murdoch invented football in the early 90s
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17164
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:13 pm

See?

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25829
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:18 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:10 pm
I wasn’t going to, I really wasn’t, but since DSB insists!

Timothy Michael Ream was absolute toss. I’m not being hyperbolic when I say I genuinely believe there’s an argument that he might be in an all-time worst Premier League XI (not all time worst BWFC Prem XI, but competition wide).

That Fulham team last year might be the worst ever at the back, and Tim and his pal Denis Odoi managed to stand out like reverse lighthouses as shining beacons of catastrophe.

The Derby County team of 07-08 widely remembered as the worst team in footballing history* conceded 89 goals. They conceded loads because they had genuinely no good players at all (Andy Todd played 15 games for them. In the Premier League. In 2007!), and finished with 11 points. Fulham last year actually had an all right side from the middle on, got 26 points and scored a few goals. They went down hopelessly because they were dreadful, dreadful at the back. I honestly laughed out loud at Tim Ream’s defending on at least two occasions on Match of the Day last year. My favourite moment was what looked like a tight offside call until they spun the camera and looked along the line and there, literally 8 yards behind the rest of his pals, halfway across the pitch nowhere near the ball, for absolutely no reason, was young Tim.

LE is absolutely right that there are certain groups of fans who will love any defender who is big and strong and goes clattering into people before leathering it into the posh seats (see Zoumas, Y and K). But there is an equal and opposite reaction of people who like a chin-stroking counter-argument as soon as anyone tries to play any football at all.

I’m happy to admit that, particularly when you’ve been treated to a few years of Zat Knight and big Dave, Ream was decent on the ball. Maybe once a game he’d take a long ball down on the chest instead of 20p-ing it away, and quite often he’d find a little 15 yard diag into midfield or to a winger. This is a good thing, but boy oh boy is it *not* *enough*. The problem if you’re a centre-back is that sooner or later, you are going to have to defend. And if you are horrifically, horrifically bad at that, then no little punched pass here or recovery run to bail out Zat is going to be make up for it.

Then we had that weird spell where everyone wanted him to play in central midfield. Well that was a fun experiment. Watching 10 Bolton players spread the width of the D outside their box and still Fulham playing through with ease on a dark, dark night at the cottage is not why Ream is terrible, but it certainly ended that debate. People were yearning for anybody who didn’t have toblerone boots (Darren Pratley played as a number 10 that night) so much that they wanted anyone with any technical ability to play, no matter how shite they were otherwise.

Ugh, he’s a sorry, sorry footnote in our history.

And also, by the by, stop going to Nandos you weird f*ck. I know you’re in a hotel in a new country but you’ve got to help yourself.

I agree with DSB on Cahill - that Arsenal should’ve bought him but they baulked at the fee, we got semi-screwed over and Gaz finished with a Champions League, 2 Prem titles and 60 England caps. It didn’t help Ream to come in after Cahill who was a ball-playing defender (certainly by the standards of the time) who could actually defend.



*since Rupert Murdoch invented football in the early 90s
Spot on. Though that was just the long form of what I (far less eloquently) said before. To think we had Knight and Ream - when you think about that league two doesn't seem too bad. And I suspect whatever happens we'll have better defenders.

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20001
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Prufrock » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:18 pm

Not the worst signing we made with the Cahill money though, tbf. Cheers, Owen.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

jmjhb
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 2336
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:52 pm
Location: Xanadu

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by jmjhb » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:20 pm

Yeah, agree with Pru on this. In a Championship-standard team Ream is fine but he's nowhere near a Premier League player.

jmjhb
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 2336
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:52 pm
Location: Xanadu

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by jmjhb » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:20 pm

Yeah, agree with Pru on this. In a Championship-standard team Ream is fine but he's nowhere near a Premier League player.

LeverEnd
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8151
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 pm
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by LeverEnd » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:53 pm

Of course it was a terrible downgrade. That's not Ream's fault. His fee was probably reasonable, based on his career to date and the games he played for us. The manner in which lost Cahill was scandalous mismanagement. Again not Ream's fault. Throughout a tempestuous period for the club he was a decent hardworking pro and deserves a lot more credit than he got.
...

Bruce Rioja
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 35810
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Drifting into the arena of the unwell.

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:33 pm

Didn't most of the Cahill money get blown on Sordell?
May the bridges I burn light your way

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:52 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:33 pm
Didn't most of the Cahill money get blown on Sordell?

Roughly the same amount of it went on both. And six months prior, we spent more than we spent on either on the signing of David N'Gog.

Nice one, Owen.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25829
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:51 am

LeverEnd wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:53 pm
Of course it was a terrible downgrade. That's not Ream's fault. His fee was probably reasonable, based on his career to date and the games he played for us. The manner in which lost Cahill was scandalous mismanagement. Again not Ream's fault. Throughout a tempestuous period for the club he was a decent hardworking pro and deserves a lot more credit than he got.
Cahill fee was agreed with Man City the summer before - £18M - then Citeh changed transfer policy due to changes in their scouting team. Arsenal would only pay £7M. Cahill wouldn't sign a new deal for obvious reasons.

It was a horrid situation but I'm not sure there was anything anyone at BWFC could have done about it - not without huge foresight. Its just a shame Chelsea weren't in for him in the summer.

Bruce Rioja
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 35810
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Drifting into the arena of the unwell.

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:27 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:52 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:33 pm
Didn't most of the Cahill money get blown on Sordell?

Roughly the same amount of it went on both. And six months prior, we spent more than we spent on either on the signing of David N'Gog.

Nice one, Owen.
Saw N'Gog playing for Coyle's hapless Ross County side last year, and he still looked utter shite at that level.

Nice one, Owen indeed.
May the bridges I burn light your way

Jakerbeef
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:57 am

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Jakerbeef » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:07 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:27 pm
nicholaldo wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:52 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:33 pm
Didn't most of the Cahill money get blown on Sordell?

Roughly the same amount of it went on both. And six months prior, we spent more than we spent on either on the signing of David N'Gog.

Nice one, Owen.
Saw N'Gog playing for Coyle's hapless Ross County side last year, and he still looked utter shite at that level.

Nice one, Owen indeed.
Ah, I remember. Funny old game; he went to both Bolton and my local Highland outfit. Thankfully the wee team recovered quickly. 6th in the SPL. :D

Harry Genshaw
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7150
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Half dead in Panama

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:49 pm

Just on the Arsenal Cahill business. I had it in my mind that Wenger offered us 3 -3.5m for Cahill in the January knowing he was out of contract in the summer. We rightly told him to feck off and he went to Chelsea instead for 7m. Have I misremembered that?

Arsenal's penny pinching bit them on the arse that time
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17164
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:01 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:49 pm
Just on the Arsenal Cahill business. I had it in my mind that Wenger offered us 3 -3.5m for Cahill in the January knowing he was out of contract in the summer. We rightly told him to feck off and he went to Chelsea instead for 7m. Have I misremembered that?

Arsenal's penny pinching bit them on the arse that time
Sounds realistic

I think they made a £53m transfer profit that season

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25829
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:01 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:49 pm
Just on the Arsenal Cahill business. I had it in my mind that Wenger offered us 3 -3.5m for Cahill in the January knowing he was out of contract in the summer. We rightly told him to feck off and he went to Chelsea instead for 7m. Have I misremembered that?

Arsenal's penny pinching bit them on the arse that time
Something like that. They'd offered 7 in the summer but given weeks earlier he was about to go to Citeh for £18M it was not seen as good business. Chelsea made clear they'd take him in January for whatever Arsenal offered in the summer so we had half a season out of him plus the same money...Gartside was keen to put one over Arsenal as they'd been lowballing us.

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:31 pm

Well, we're through.

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8503
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:37 pm

Yesss
Let’s get to wemberleeee

Harry Genshaw
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7150
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Half dead in Panama

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:02 am

I noticed a full strength Sunderland lost 0-3 at Scunny last night. Parkys got his work cut out there
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17164
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:24 am

We'll be away (cos we finished second) with a 43% chance of playing an Academy: Accrington Stanley, Blackpool, Port Vale, Salford City, Everton U21, Leicester City U21, Manchester United U21. Draw's on Saturday, game will be Tue 3 or Wed 4 Dec.

Accy, by the way, put five past Liverpool's kids - although most of the better teenagers were elsewhere in the first-team squad.

I done some words (before last night's games) on the state of play. Wolves went through, Spurs went out.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ef ... -tottenham

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Harry Genshaw and 28 guests