Deduction prediction

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How many points do you think we'll be deducted? (excluding suspended)

Poll ended at Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:42 pm

0
1
6%
1
0
No votes
2
0
No votes
3
5
28%
4
0
No votes
5
0
No votes
6
10
56%
7
0
No votes
8
0
No votes
9
0
No votes
10
0
No votes
11
0
No votes
12
2
11%
13
0
No votes
14
0
No votes
15
0
No votes
16
0
No votes
17
0
No votes
18
0
No votes
19
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 18

Prufrock
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:31 am

Absolute farce. Absolutely no excuses for it taking this long. Pathetic organisation.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:07 am

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:31 am
Absolute farce. Absolutely no excuses for it taking this long. Pathetic organisation.
Are we going to arbitration? Perhaps we've appealed and they don't want to announce it till arbitration panel held.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:13 am

Then say that. It's a travesty that it's taken 7 fecking months to make any kind of decision anyway. To then continue to keep fans and other clubs in the dark is pathetic.

For all their talk of the "integrity of the competition" (from those cnuts!!) they have guaranteed that whatever they do now it's a racing certainty that clubs/fans will be rightfully aggrieved at the end of the season.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Jugs » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:29 am

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:13 am
Then say that. It's a travesty that it's taken 7 fecking months to make any kind of decision anyway. To then continue to keep fans and other clubs in the dark is pathetic.

For all their talk of the "integrity of the competition" (from those cnuts!!) they have guaranteed that whatever they do now it's a racing certainty that clubs/fans will be rightfully aggrieved at the end of the season.
Exactly. Had we known the outcome of the Brentford debacle at the start of the season, it'd have been a lot easier to take than getting twatted it by it now that we're (some of us anyway) starting to get a glimmer of hope.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:04 pm

It goes way beyond us too. If we stay up despite the punishment teams will feel we weren't punished enough. If they deduct e.g. 20 then our results will surely tail off and everyone we've beaten will be livid. They've already fecked it letting us play the kids at all. One of those teams who got a free three points will surely be involved in a tight battle against a team who hasn't.
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That it's going to lose its mind
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Jugs » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:26 pm

Exactly.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:59 pm

Jugs wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:58 am
Pathetic.
Aye. Although irked I didn't mind the delay till today - I presumed they were hearing our appeal, or at least having A Really Hard Think, or whatever. Now it's kicked down the road again... possibly because one or other panel member has other stuff to do (I believe one of them is a legal expert and thus might have a real job, unlike say John Aldridge) and they haven't reached consensus, I dunno.

All we can do is all we can do, which is mainly over the white line: keep winning. If we get up to 4, 7, 10 points and they push us back in the minus it's gonna look awful on them.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by DJBlu » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:36 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:59 pm
Jugs wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:58 am
Pathetic.
Aye. Although irked I didn't mind the delay till today - I presumed they were hearing our appeal, or at least having A Really Hard Think, or whatever. Now it's kicked down the road again... possibly because one or other panel member has other stuff to do (I believe one of them is a legal expert and thus might have a real job, unlike say John Aldridge) and they haven't reached consensus, I dunno.

All we can do is all we can do, which is mainly over the white line: keep winning. If we get up to 4, 7, 10 points and they push us back in the minus it's gonna look awful on them.
I really don't think they care.

The longer it goes on the worse it is for everybody involved.

I wouldn't be surprised if the punishment isn't implemented until next season.

I mean we think we've seen it all....

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:56 pm

I think the league will be wanting it finalised beyond any doubt before announcing it. Imagine how much shit they get if say its a 12 point deduction reduced to 6 or 9 after appeal weeks later. They cannot afford that. So I assume the panel have recommended a penalty the league have looked at it, informed Bolton and want to see if we appeal. They don't want to say that in public because clearly this is bent as feck and they have to make it seem legitimate.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:57 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:56 pm
I think the league will be wanting it finalised beyond any doubt before announcing it. Imagine how much shit they get if say its a 12 point deduction reduced to 6 or 9 after appeal weeks later. They cannot afford that. So I assume the panel have recommended a penalty the league have looked at it, informed Bolton and want to see if we appeal. They don't want to say that in public because clearly this is bent as feck and they have to make it seem legitimate.
Apart from the bent bit, upon which I couldn't possibly concur, I agree with pretty much all of this. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's good news. I mean I agree we're probably appealing it, which is good, but we might be appealing 'cos it's like 15 points or some shit.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:02 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:57 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:56 pm
I think the league will be wanting it finalised beyond any doubt before announcing it. Imagine how much shit they get if say its a 12 point deduction reduced to 6 or 9 after appeal weeks later. They cannot afford that. So I assume the panel have recommended a penalty the league have looked at it, informed Bolton and want to see if we appeal. They don't want to say that in public because clearly this is bent as feck and they have to make it seem legitimate.
Apart from the bent bit, upon which I couldn't possibly concur, I agree with pretty much all of this. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's good news. I mean I agree we're probably appealing it, which is good, but we might be appealing 'cos it's like 15 points or some shit.
Yeah I wasn't suggesting it was good or bad. I'd suggest if anything it means a high penalty that may be reduced. But we'll see.

It could just be utter incompetence or likely a mixture of the two.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:20 pm

They hammer us. We go mad.

They go lightly on us and the gobby half a dozen or so clubs proper kick off.

The EFL will choose the path of least resistance which does not bode well for us.
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:36 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:20 pm
They hammer us. We go mad.

They go lightly on us and the gobby half a dozen or so clubs proper kick off.

The EFL will choose the path of least resistance which does not bode well for us.
They'll get resistance whatever they do, and not just from our relegation rivals. Peterborough gobshite Darragh MacAnthony was suggesting over the weekend that the league "might" get sued if Wycombe and Ipswich, who beat our kids, go up.

I mean I don't mind if we restage those four games that happened before the takeover, that's fine by me Darragh...

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Mar » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:09 pm

I suspect that the punishment will be around 6 points and doled out either at the start of the next season, or at the end of this, depending on where we finish.

If we finish in the drop zone, they can easily add a points deduction without impacting the squad. If we finish well above the drop zone, i'm sure they can give us a points deduction that will put us just above the relegation zone. If we finish just above, where 6 points would relegate us i'm sure they will dish it out next season.

I suspect, given the nature of our predicament, there will be an element of leniency doled out with this. It's hard to have a case against Bolton here that won't likely be taken to an panel of arbitration. The competition has already become a bit farcical due to us playing youth teams in the early stages. Further giving us a points deduction will only compound this at an earlier stage.

What if the arbitration panel rules that the points deduction should've been handed out to the previous ownership and rules the same against the deduction that happened prior to the season starting. Some deeply concerning precedents could be set here and i'm sure the EFL are going to likely not get tangled up in that if they can avoid it.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:51 pm

I don't think I'd like to be a member of the E.F.L Committee right now. Nothing new, but whatever they come up with at the present time will get some serious earache and aggro from some direction or other..By not having mandatory, unshakeable rules and regs to cover every eventuality, they leave them selves wide open to attack from all directions. Job One for me would address that to see to that right off and close all the loopholes. Lesson Learned etc...In the future, it might be the clubs who suffer from rule bending/breaking, but at least it would be in the manual and unarguable and the jury wouldn't need to even sit. Will they learn...hmm, it's debatable....
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:44 pm

Mar wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:09 pm
I suspect that the punishment will be around 6 points and doled out either at the start of the next season, or at the end of this, depending on where we finish.

If we finish in the drop zone, they can easily add a points deduction without impacting the squad. If we finish well above the drop zone, i'm sure they can give us a points deduction that will put us just above the relegation zone. If we finish just above, where 6 points would relegate us i'm sure they will dish it out next season.

I suspect, given the nature of our predicament, there will be an element of leniency doled out with this. It's hard to have a case against Bolton here that won't likely be taken to an panel of arbitration. The competition has already become a bit farcical due to us playing youth teams in the early stages. Further giving us a points deduction will only compound this at an earlier stage.

What if the arbitration panel rules that the points deduction should've been handed out to the previous ownership and rules the same against the deduction that happened prior to the season starting. Some deeply concerning precedents could be set here and i'm sure the EFL are going to likely not get tangled up in that if they can avoid it.
This is exactly what they did with Birmingham last season. Waited til they couldn't reasonably go up then dock them not enough points not to take them down. They'd like to do that to us but we've started winning and other clubs have been unexpectedly shite, so we have a chance. They are now shitting themselves I believe, and they are bent and corrupt, just like BWFCI suggests. An organisation whose CEO was matey with Ken Anderson. Absolute and utter disgrace. The club should kick up a fuss about any penalty, even if lenient, on the basis that the EFL has no authority to administer it.
...

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:56 pm

Roughly, how many teams might actually be affected end of season in terms of pot and promotion or relegation? (requiring opinion, not fact that can't be ascertained at this stage) It surely won't be the whole of the league, so the complainers should be minimised somewhat?
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:20 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:56 pm
Roughly, how many teams might actually be affected end of season in terms of pot and promotion or relegation? (requiring opinion, not fact that can't be ascertained at this stage) It surely won't be the whole of the league, so the complainers should be minimised somewhat?
Our relegation rivals: if we take anyone averaging around a point per game or less, that's
• Southend
• McDons
• Wombles
• Accy
• Tranmere
• Lincoln

• Rochdale

Promotion: under the MacAnthony Argument, anyone who played our weakend team got an unfair advantage. That's
• Wycombe (currently 1st)
• Ipswich (currently 2nd)
• Coventry (currently 3rd - although they failed to beat us)
• Rotherham (currently 6th - stretching a point slightly but that's what folks like MacAnthony do)
• Gillingham (currently 14th)
• Tranmere (currently 18th)

You can also throw in
Doncaster, who might (incredibly uncharitably) feel the EFL should have made us play the game against them

It's three points for a win (which complainants may say the EFL effectively handed to some teams), and if you draw a three-point zone below those listed above who beat us, you can also add in
• Oxford
• Fleetwood
• Sunderland
• Bristol Rovers
• Shrewsbury
(all four within 3pts of Rotherham), plus
Burton
• Rochdale
• Lincoln
(all within 3pts of Gillingham), plus
• Accy
• Wombles
• McDons
(all within 3pts of Tranmere)

As far as I can see, the only two teams which aren't directly affected in one way or other by the first six "walkover" games we played (and the one we didn't, and our resultant punishment) are Blackpool and Peterborough, and one of their chairmen is sabre-rattling about court cases.

So yeah, they've really f*cked it up this time.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by jimbo » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:56 pm

Wow wow wow. Twitter saying we’ve only been given a suspended 5 point deduction!

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Bertie Wooster » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:11 pm

jimbo wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:56 pm
Wow wow wow. Twitter saying we’ve only been given a suspended 5 point deduction!
Yes 5 points suspended plus a fine

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