Deduction prediction

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How many points do you think we'll be deducted? (excluding suspended)

Poll ended at Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:42 pm

0
1
6%
1
0
No votes
2
0
No votes
3
5
28%
4
0
No votes
5
0
No votes
6
10
56%
7
0
No votes
8
0
No votes
9
0
No votes
10
0
No votes
11
0
No votes
12
2
11%
13
0
No votes
14
0
No votes
15
0
No votes
16
0
No votes
17
0
No votes
18
0
No votes
19
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 18

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:00 pm

Okay Donkers, here you go: Have three points on us and we won't bother turning up to play you. Oh, but wait a minute, that might cost us another fine and more points deducted in addition to the 12 we lost already for not playing you with our cheerleader girls, a fat man with a flag and the tea lady (all we had available at the time and all unpaid volunteers) . Tell you what, we'll let you win and then you can have the three points and still go whining to the E.F.L Monday that you should have another three. Will that do? Are you that afraid of Bolton Wanderers?

I've just read the drivel on their site about pubs not serving Bolton fans (as if any of them had anything to do with anything except watch our kids get hammered weekly) I'd be ashamed if I'd written that childish blubbering. I thought Yorkshire lads had a bit more balls than that. Obviously not.
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 pm

It would be funny if we went on a right tear and pipped them to the play offs on goal difference, including an emphatic win against them in the re-arranged game. :oyea:

I know, I know, calm down...

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:17 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 pm
It would be funny if we went on a right tear and pipped them to the play offs on goal difference, including an emphatic win against them in the re-arranged game. :oyea:

I know, I know, calm down...
I mean, we've won more games in the last five than anyone below 7th, so...

Seriously, though. This is potentially brilliant news. We're still a very long way from staying up but if this decision stands we could get a proper fillip from it. As I've said before, if we're in with a chance in January then I can imagine Hill and Flicker selling potential recruits the chance of footballing immortality. Showing them the Wilbraham video, asking them if they fancy a slice of that cake.

If we can get the right players – in quality and quantity - we can have a damn good go at this, which will carry over into next season - whichever division we're in. And although there will be a shitstorm over the next few days rom all manner of parties fully embracing their right to say whatever the like, we should keep our heads down - from Sharon through Keith to the humblest of forum-dwellers - and try not to inflame it. Next task is coming out of embargo, which one assumes (compared to this decision) would be quite an easy ask if the books are as tidy as we'd like to think.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:41 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:17 pm
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 pm
It would be funny if we went on a right tear and pipped them to the play offs on goal difference, including an emphatic win against them in the re-arranged game. :oyea:

I know, I know, calm down...
I mean, we've won more games in the last five than anyone below 7th, so...

Seriously, though. This is potentially brilliant news. We're still a very long way from staying up but if this decision stands we could get a proper fillip from it. As I've said before, if we're in with a chance in January then I can imagine Hill and Flicker selling potential recruits the chance of footballing immortality. Showing them the Wilbraham video, asking them if they fancy a slice of that cake.

If we can get the right players – in quality and quantity - we can have a damn good go at this, which will carry over into next season - whichever division we're in. And although there will be a shitstorm over the next few days rom all manner of parties fully embracing their right to say whatever the like, we should keep our heads down - from Sharon through Keith to the humblest of forum-dwellers - and try not to inflame it. Next task is coming out of embargo, which one assumes (compared to this decision) would be quite an easy ask if the books are as tidy as we'd like to think.
Wise words DSB. No point in ballooning around - I can see the view from other clubs re the penalty BUT they don't understand really what happened.

Seems as though Paul Appleton and Andrew Gartside played a hand in ensuring the Doncaster punishment was minimised - thanks chaps!

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by nelson66 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:03 am

Am pretty sure that Football Ventures must have discussed this with the EFL and been given an indication as to the likely outcome before they took the club over.
No matter.... its a great result for us... and we have suffered enough over the last few years
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:06 am

nelson66 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:03 am
Am pretty sure that Football Ventures must have discussed this with the EFL and been given an indication as to the likely outcome before they took the club over.
No matter.... its a great result for us... and we have suffered enough over the last few years
The EFL didn't decide the penalty. Their independent panel did. It seems other clubs like Doncaster believe the EFL might appeal the decision.

EDIT: EFL are appealing.
Last edited by BWFC_Insane on Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Harry Genshaw » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:12 am

Having a look on general footy forums and other clubs and it's clear many are unhappy but as Insane says, many don't understand what happened either.

What has surprised and disappointed me is how quickly the good will towards us in August has now been replaced by self interest.
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:25 am


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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:44 am

F*ck the EFL!!

Can we fine them and extend the ban if it’s a frivolous appeal?

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:47 am

This is an utter shambles by the way.

I’m sure all football fans can agree on that.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Prufrock » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:36 am

Farce. I still think we end up "up" here. Can't see any appeal doing more than "unsuspending" the 5 and that's fewer than almost anyone expected. And I reckon worst case realistically they'll only unsuspend the 3 for Doncaster (which we can make back by stuffing the self-pitying c*nts. Oh woe is me, please do tell how the EFL have fecking shafterld YOU?! You will get much sympathy from the BL postal area.).
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:37 am

Prufrock wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:36 am
Farce. I still think we end up "up" here. Can't see any appeal doing more than "unsuspending" the 5 and that's fewer than almost anyone expected. And I reckon worst case realistically they'll only unsuspend the 3 for Doncaster (which we can make back by stuffing the self-pitying c*nts. Oh woe is me, please do tell how the EFL have fecking shafterld YOU?! You will get much sympathy from the BL postal area.).
It goes to a different commission. So anything can happen. But then presumably Bolton will appeal that - so it goes round and round.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:42 am

It’s a fecking joke
The only winners are the legal profession

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by nicholaldo » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:50 am

Bearing in mind the rest of the league's anger at the decision, it was inevitable they'd appeal. It's incredibly frustrating because I think we all just wanted to draw a line under it and move on, yet now we've probably got it hanging over us for at least another couple of months if not longer.

On an unrelated note, how on earth haven't been selected for one of those documentaries yet?

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Prufrock » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:08 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:37 am
Prufrock wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:36 am
Farce. I still think we end up "up" here. Can't see any appeal doing more than "unsuspending" the 5 and that's fewer than almost anyone expected. And I reckon worst case realistically they'll only unsuspend the 3 for Doncaster (which we can make back by stuffing the self-pitying c*nts. Oh woe is me, please do tell how the EFL have fecking shafterld YOU?! You will get much sympathy from the BL postal area.).
It goes to a different commission. So anything can happen. But then presumably Bolton will appeal that - so it goes round and round.
I don't mean they can't do anymore than that but I think it's highly unlikely on an appeal, just human nature.

Written reasons will be interesting. Interested to know what the standard on appeal is, too.

Do they simply remake the decision from scratch or do they just consider whether the first one was flawed. Hopefully it works like an appeal in the courts would and the new panel works on the basis of the factual scenario set out by this one.
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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:05 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:08 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:37 am
Prufrock wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:36 am
Farce. I still think we end up "up" here. Can't see any appeal doing more than "unsuspending" the 5 and that's fewer than almost anyone expected. And I reckon worst case realistically they'll only unsuspend the 3 for Doncaster (which we can make back by stuffing the self-pitying c*nts. Oh woe is me, please do tell how the EFL have fecking shafterld YOU?! You will get much sympathy from the BL postal area.).
It goes to a different commission. So anything can happen. But then presumably Bolton will appeal that - so it goes round and round.
I don't mean they can't do anymore than that but I think it's highly unlikely on an appeal, just human nature.

Written reasons will be interesting. Interested to know what the standard on appeal is, too.

Do they simply remake the decision from scratch or do they just consider whether the first one was flawed. Hopefully it works like an appeal in the courts would and the new panel works on the basis of the factual scenario set out by this one.
Given the whole process has zero transparency I wouldn't be surprised if the EFL just keep passing it around till they get the decision they want. Suspect the final panel to see this will be John Aldridge, Barry Knight and the Doncaster Chairman.

EFL - I now fully believe are not only incompetent but entirely corrupt. They've operated a ridiculously long and non-transparent process and months after even the most useless organisations would have reached a decision we still waited- then got it and now they're appealing their own panel.

Debbie Jevans - you're bent love. And you're running a corrupt, bent scandalous organisation.

If the Supporters Trust had a single thing about them they'd use their "fighting fund" to take the EFL to task for a) Harvey's comments and general behavior re Ken Anderson and b) Harvey's text messages to Bassini. Go on Supporters Trust do something useful for once.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:40 pm

I hope we appeal the appeal and keep it going till the end of the season which will really show up the “fixture organisers” competition as the farce it is!

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:03 pm

Shaun Harvey has an interesting background:

1994-2004 - At Bradford as underling of Geoffrey Richmond. Bradford went into admin 2002. Richmond declared bankrupt 2004.
2004-2011 - CEO of Leeds United. Check out Leeds' financial fortunes during this period. Involves a lot of CVA's and points deductions and time in L1.
2011-2019 - EFL, CEO from 2013. I think it is fair to say the EFL has overseen an escalating number of cases of financial mismanagement over this period, including a very questionable role in our own.

I question whether Rick Parry is really the guy to clean up the EFL's act.

Anyway, the only bet I would take is that this will be a spectacular omnishamble of a process. Wouldn't surprise me if the final decision is made with a few games left, unfairly impacting on the competition, and denying us a hard earned play off spot :)

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by Bertie Wooster » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:35 pm

So the EFL are appealing against the independent commission that they (the EFL) put together - so they are effectively appealing against themselves because they didn't like the decision that 'their own' commission came up with.

They are only doing this because the like of Doncaster don't like the commissions decision, because they didn't get a free 3 points playing against our Youth team.

2 things here for me - firstly, this will continue to go on & on, because if this EFL appeal against themselves results in overturning the EFL's independent commission decision & results in a points deduction then BWFC will then appeal that decision and it will roll on & on possibly until next season.

Secondly, I suspect that its going to be quite a 'grudge' match against Doncaster when we eventually play them - on & off the pitch, the EFL have now managed to create a rivalry that previously never existed.

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Re: Deduction prediction

Post by LeverEnd » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:25 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:50 am
Bearing in mind the rest of the league's anger at the decision, it was inevitable they'd appeal. It's incredibly frustrating because I think we all just wanted to draw a line under it and move on, yet now we've probably got it hanging over us for at least another couple of months if not longer.

On an unrelated note, how on earth haven't been selected for one of those documentaries yet?
Can you see Ken sanctioning a look behind the scenes? :D
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