Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:13 am

“Obviously he gets time but this is going to end I tears” is exactly where I am at.

Wholly mitigating circumstances (a one day transfer window ffs!) but I’ve seen and heard enough to get a whiff of concerning bullshit with chino Keith. I think some of our young players have gone backwards. I don’t see him being the man to lead us out of league two at the moment.

Oh and the EFL can crack on with the points deduction as well now!

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:58 am

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:33 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:30 pm
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:25 pm
The entertainment for the 1st 15 mins was excellent, we played well & could have been 3 up had Verlinden's shot that hit the post gone in.

But after that until I left it was shocking, possibly the worst Bolton performance in memory, the team just surrendered - they certainly did not play for Keith Hill, no one was running through brick walls for him.

His casual, cocky approach (jeans etc) is now rubbing off on the team, they are way to casual & disorganised
We need to be clear the first fifteen minutes were Burton dominating punctuated by two great pieces of play by DoDoo. The signs we were getting battered were there. Had those two goals not been scored could have been a Rugby score really.
Can you pack it in with the awful politician "let's be clear" nonsense especially when you're just putting forward your sus opinion. As others have said, I don't know what game you were waching if you thought the ref got not much wrong, or indeed if you think Burton dominated the first 15 mins.

That's two games in a row where the referees have been absolutely hopeless around correctly sending off a Bolton player. No real big decisions, at least today, just a constant stream of weirdness. Nothing free kicks given for bits and pieces, handfuls of shirts visibly yanked, or big two handed shoves not given. A game of football threatened by a refereeing lottery at any point.

More pressingly, two games in a row where we have been let down by idiotic senior players. Thought Murphy was really goodin the first half, looked to revel in being the senior midfielder, tenacious in the tackle, used the ball well. But that's unforgiveable. You could argue each yellow was a touch harsh especially in the light of what went unpunished but still can't have any complaints at all. "Might havr got away with it on another day" is not an excuse. Even the first one you say OK it's a mad first half he's trying to take a tactical and slow things down (though noting he couldn't even do that properly as they played on and got a shot away) but the second one, 5 mins into the second half, going nowhere inside their own half, absolutely braindead. Him and Lowe can get f*cked.

I'm absolutely not having Burton dominated the first 15 either! Their two centre backs had the ball without pressure three times in that period and managed to miss the pitch! They're one of the worst teams I've ever seen at the Reebok. In the first half their left back had me and our kid joking about going for a run when we got home as the dream isn't over, and in the second the keeper had us googling Boxing Day deals on keeper gloves. They were utter shite. They did boss the second half of the first half, but that's mainly because we have no midfield and our centre halfs, without any protection, had no answer to them rolling balls into Akins who bullied them both. We were well worth our 2-0 lead (though then also worth our 3-2 defecit).

James Weir isn't good enough. He's massively low on confidence but he was non-existent in the first half. No lack of effort but has Verlinden's sense of where to press and when (i.e. none). No fixing that. Not his fault (or Hill's really), but with him and an inexperieced Darcy the back 4 were hopelessly exposed from about 20 mins on.

There are huge mitigating circumstances for why we are where we are (though those who used to beat Parkinson but want to defend Hill can feck off). You can't blame Hill for why we had a really poor midfield out there today. Small squad, injuries, plus idiotic decisions from Lowe and Murphy are out of his control. You can't blame Hill for an experienced defender in Wright managing to get far too tight and get rolled for simple, basic goals in each half (I have more sympathy for the second where the overrun midfield meant Wright got isolated with Boyce and with us needing to nick the ball back, but the first one (their 3rd?) was one of the worse goals I've seen a professional team concede). It's a patchwork team where some signings will work out and some won't.

That said...I don't see what the plan is. We're told he's a "footballing" manager, but that first half was entirely big diags (if we worked hard to force them, or even worse big straight lumpls) to Murphy and Dodoo. I'm not even saying that's wrong, but the rest of the team isn't set up that way. We frig about at the back until the centre-backs are on the edge of our box before Remi nice people it up and then when it's cleared our midifeld 3 have 40 yards to fill between them. If you drop off then you have to try to play out, or if you're going long push up and squeeze the space. One minute we're playing out, the next we're not. BWFCi is absolutely right on the point about Hill trying to be too clever. Dodoo is a number 9. I don't mind him doing a job down the right and he was excellent for the first 20, but taking off Murphy and sticking tiny Verlinden through the middle while Dodoo stayed wide was insane. Then Buckely went central while O'Grady went wide left. Plus the whole Bridcutt nonsense. It's never a good sign when you can't work out what a manager is trying to do.

I know a few folk get frustrated and problably go a bit far with their expectations v when we could expect to be, but I think folk would have a lot more patience if we could work out what's happening. Also, on the other hand, I doubt Burton have a single player on what we're paying the two Murphys (by way of example) and they're not skint by 3rd tier standards, so there is that. We can't expect mircales. We can expect, four months in, a team that looks like it knows what it's doing defending set-pieces. (Or attacking them). We can't complain about not having been able to practice defending with 10 men either, though practicing defending with 11 would be nice too.

We've got (I think) two players contracted beyond June, Brockbank and Edwards, yet neither have seen a minute since coming back from injury. We seem to have a plan for two weeks then tear it up and start again. We need to be deciding wh's going to be here next year, how we're going to play, and treating the rest of this season as a tester for who can cut it and how. Instead it's another combination of journeymen thrown together. Are we going to try to play more, in which case, pick fullbacks who want the ball (cough, Adam, cough). Try to play through the middle. If we give it way trying, great, you've got the luxury of a free hit. Or, go the other way. Be direct, use the strengths of Murphy and Dodoo. They'd be a cracking two with a compact hard working side behind them. At the moment I don't know what they are.

The worst thing about all this is the waste of the fresh start. Burton were largely dreadful but had good players in the final third and punished us. That's enough at this level even with a competition winner in nets and a back four who literally could't kick the ball in the direction they meant to. Shrewsbury were dicks but I thought really impressive. Used the ball well, had a system where everyone knew their job, everyone wanted the ball. They lacked quality in the final third but they have the budget of fecking Shrewsbury. You get more of a free rein than almost any manager ever here. And it's drifting aimlessly.

And, I know but come on, the daft nice person is lolling about in jeans and another Adidas beanie. He's a fecking weirdo. Owen's footballing brain wit Dougie's social skills.

Obviously he gets time, but this is going to end in tears.
Well I agree with most of that. The ref I thought was fine - far better than the Shrewsbury one. He did let some shirt pulling go - sure - but which ref doesn't? I mean by the league one standards he did ok - Murphy gave him no choice and that fuelled a lot of fan indignation over 50:50's he probably got lot of those wrong but again week in week out I see that happen.

Anyhow - regardless I'm absolutely not wanting him sacked- I just haven't warmed to him - and couple that with very odd decisions - a seemingly never ending change of plan - and very little discernible progress - I just like you see it ending in tears.

Next season will be his test - nothing less than promotion will do - and I fear he'll be spending large parts of it talking about "process and plans" rather than delivering results needed. Even then I don't believe he has the ability to build us up and get us out of league one.

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by boltonboris » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:40 am

An entertaining match if you're a neutral!

I don't think it was that bad - We looked tired, inexperienced and indecisive in the back 2/3rds and still almost came away with a point, had Darcey (who just looks better and better) been able to finish.

Weir, seems that are contrasting views - My view, was plenty of effort, but a poor touch and he looked unwilling to commit to playing a few yards further forward, which damaged us. He didn't get near the bounce of the ball and allowed the opposition too much time to face us up and dominate the play in our half.

Dodoo started blisteringly well, but then was turd.

The entire back 4 were shite, but then that's why they are here. They don;t get sufficient protection, but not being able to defend the back post, follow men in on set-pieces and just switching off is not something anybody else can take any portion of the blame for. The 3rd and 4th goal were really basic. Somehow 1v1 with back to goal, yet their striker(s) just turned Wright so f***in easily. Not tight enough on the pass approach, then too tight on the first touch. Just really basic.
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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:50 am

boltonboris wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:40 am
An entertaining match if you're a neutral!

I don't think it was that bad - We looked tired, inexperienced and indecisive in the back 2/3rds and still almost came away with a point, had Darcey (who just looks better and better) been able to finish.

Weir, seems that are contrasting views - My view, was plenty of effort, but a poor touch and he looked unwilling to commit to playing a few yards further forward, which damaged us. He didn't get near the bounce of the ball and allowed the opposition too much time to face us up and dominate the play in our half.

Dodoo started blisteringly well, but then was turd.

The entire back 4 were shite, but then that's why they are here. They don;t get sufficient protection, but not being able to defend the back post, follow men in on set-pieces and just switching off is not something anybody else can take any portion of the blame for. The 3rd and 4th goal were really basic. Somehow 1v1 with back to goal, yet their striker(s) just turned Wright so f***in easily. Not tight enough on the pass approach, then too tight on the first touch. Just really basic.
There are some real basic things going wrong that could be fixed on the training ground - the midfield are often caught out pressing the ball when they shouldn't. Nobody fills the space in front of the centre backs routinely - a huge problem against Burton - contributed to why we looked wide open - but Shrewsbury also found loads of joy there. You have to have someone fill that - even if they aren't a static player sitting there all game like a Makelele someone has to have the responsibility for making sure they screen when the opposition are in possession. Especially given our midfield are appallingly bad at tracking their men. Watch Crawford and Murphy just let runners run past them - if you aren't disciplined in tracking then someone acting as a screen is vital.

Also the fullbacks are sometimes protected with their "winger" and sometimes just abandoned - we neither consistently get into a 4-5-1 shape when off the ball - nor consistently leave 3 up to act as an outlet. Often the wide players are caught in no man's land. This may be their fault but it happens so often that I wonder if its down to confusion. Its no coincidence that when down to 10 against Shrewsbury and Sunderland we were set up to be in a 4-5-1 (or 4-4-1) when out of possession we did not concede a goal. Because we had a defensive structure. Yesterday though - and against Southend we had no defensive structure at all and whilst the lack of midfield yesterday was some mitigation - the plan doesn't seem to be there. 2-0 we could have afforded to drop into a 4-5-1 screen the back four, protect the full backs and hit on the break. It might have been painful to watch - heck Burton may even have won the game regardless but I suspect we'd have made it an awful lot harder for them if we had.

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:32 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:58 am

Next season will be his test - nothing less than promotion will do - and I fear he'll be spending large parts of it talking about "process and plans" rather than delivering results needed. Even then I don't believe he has the ability to build us up and get us out of league one.
I share some of your concerns re Hill but your opening line there surprises me. I'd love us to go straight back up but we've no divine right to and for me, it wouldn't be enough on it's own to pot Hill if we didn't.

As relevant examples neither Portsmouth and Bradford managed it. Nor did Luton when they dropped a division lower.

If we're competing and as you allude to, it looks like there's a process and plan then I think that's all most of us can expect.
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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:40 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:32 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:58 am

Next season will be his test - nothing less than promotion will do - and I fear he'll be spending large parts of it talking about "process and plans" rather than delivering results needed. Even then I don't believe he has the ability to build us up and get us out of league one.
I share some of your concerns re Hill but your opening line there surprises me. I'd love us to go straight back up but we've no divine right to and for me, it wouldn't be enough on it's own to pot Hill if we didn't.

As relevant examples neither Portsmouth and Bradford managed it. Nor did Luton when they dropped a division lower.

If we're competing and as you allude to, it looks like there's a process and plan then I think that's all most of us can expect.
Bolton Wanderers should be able to come straight back out of league 2. Under any circumstances. If they cannot then something has gone very wrong. Forget divine right or billy big bollocks - I don't think a club of the stature of BWFC with still over 10,000 fans should expect or be satisfied sitting in league 2. I'm the first to want a heavy dose of realism BUT we simply cannot afford to end up marooned in league 2. This season gives Hill more time than any other manager to plan and build and put things in place behind the scenes and ensure next season is a success.

But beyond that the finances dictate that next season simply has to be promotion. When I said Hill will talk about "process and plans" I don't mean that in a positive way. Our best manager in our history did not hide behind process or plans - he did that in the background but he knew the only thing that mattered was the result. He took us into the premiership when had we not got there - the financial implication for the club was dire indeed. Under immense pressure he knew he had to deliver.

Hill will have to do the same next year. If Parky managed promote our last hapless lot from league one with Anderson in charge under an embargo - then there really is absolutely no excuse for Hill next season.

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:32 pm

I don't think anyone would be satisfied with us being marooned in league 2, but your post does come across as Billy big bollocks. If Portsmouth averaging 18000 per game and Bradford averaging 14000 per game couldn't get out at the first time of asking then why will we? You'd like to think we'd have a better chance than most but the leagues full of sides either punching above their weight in empty stadia or drowning in mediocrity despite full terraces.
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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:46 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:32 pm
I don't think anyone would be satisfied with us being marooned in league 2, but your post does come across as Billy big bollocks. If Portsmouth averaging 18000 per game and Bradford averaging 14000 per game couldn't get out at the first time of asking then why will we? You'd like to think we'd have a better chance than most but the leagues full of sides either punching above their weight in empty stadia or drowning in mediocrity despite full terraces.
Bradford achieve their crowds with hugely reduced ticket prices. So isn't a fair comparison. We all saw the way Pompey slipped down the leagues with a string of abysmal owners. There are parallels, but our ownership was resolved in August, we have the stability now to ensure our gate receipts easily will be top 2 in that division even if we simply spend within our means our budget will be top 2 in that league. We're a club who has spent one year in it's near 150 year history in the bottom division. If we aren't saying "anything other than promotion from league 2 is a failure" especially given we've essentially got a free season before to prepare then would we ever expect anything at all other than failure?

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:09 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:40 am

Bolton Wanderers should be able to come straight back out of league 2.
Apropos what, exactly?
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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:45 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:09 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:40 am

Bolton Wanderers should be able to come straight back out of league 2.
Apropos what, exactly?
If a club of our size with our support level is properly run, properly managed then I personally do not think it should be in league 2. We're going to go there because Anderson did neither of those things. But I don't see any reason why we can't get out of it - if properly managed and properly run. Our turnover will be the highest in the league - we will have had a good 9 months to prepare and get ready. I don't really think it acceptable for anything other than promotion next year. Once you get stuck down there as Bradford, for example have found it becomes very difficult. But good management with our resources our ability to attract players - I see absolutely no reason we cannot escape. It will be hard and take hard work - and isn't just a click of anyone's fingers - still.

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:30 pm

(A still ahead of) Burton's fourth goal yesterday. That's us defending, is that! :(

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by irie Cee Bee » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:23 pm

We really do take defeats badly. Calling for the Managers head.

We clearly need to find a magician to manage our team. We had no players. We had no pre season. We miraculously got some players in 48hrs, most of whom were discarded by their clubs and unfit. We had to play with under 18s. We have injuries everywhere. Our two midfield enforcers were out of this game. The other senior picked up a red card. We scored 3 goals.

And people here say the manager is to blame. Unbelievable.

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:57 pm

irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:23 pm
We really do take defeats badly. Calling for the Managers head.

We clearly need to find a magician to manage our team. We had no players. We had no pre season. We miraculously got some players in 48hrs, most of whom were discarded by their clubs and unfit. We had to play with under 18s. We have injuries everywhere. Our two midfield enforcers were out of this game. The other senior picked up a red card. We scored 3 goals.

And people here say the manager is to blame. Unbelievable.
I don't think anyone is calling for his head, and the mitigating circumstances do not mean he's immune to criticism if he gets stuff wrong.
It's possible to be critical of certain aspects but broadly sympathetic and supportive.
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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:34 pm

Who has called for his head?

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by irie Cee Bee » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:39 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:34 pm
Who has called for his head?
Seriously?? Do we read what we post??

Did not someone say "Keith Hill really is a Sunday League manager at best - he needs to go now as he wont get us out of League 2 next year, he's taking the piss."

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by nicholaldo » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:32 pm

irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:39 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:34 pm
Who has called for his head?
Seriously?? Do we read what we post??

Did not someone say "Keith Hill really is a Sunday League manager at best - he needs to go now as he wont get us out of League 2 next year, he's taking the piss."

Nah, that's just Peter Thompson being Peter Thompson.

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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by TonyDomingos » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:47 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:30 pm
(A still ahead of) Burton's fourth goal yesterday. That's us defending, is that! :(

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Their fella on the right looks offside to me. Where's VAR when you need it, eh? :D
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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:32 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:32 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:39 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:34 pm
Who has called for his head?
Seriously?? Do we read what we post??

Did not someone say "Keith Hill really is a Sunday League manager at best - he needs to go now as he wont get us out of League 2 next year, he's taking the piss."

Nah, that's just Peter Thompson being Peter Thompson.
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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:38 pm

TonyDomingos wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:47 pm

Their fella on the right looks offside to me. Where's VAR when you need it, eh? :D
:D

If one of our player had even spotted him, then we'd possibly have had a claim for him having interfered with play. :D
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Re: Brew Years Day - Burton Albion (H) - 01-01-2020

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:29 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:30 pm
(A still ahead of) Burton's fourth goal yesterday. That's us defending, is that! :(

Image
The worst thing about that goal (unbelievably) isn't even that. Its the fact that if you watch the full goal - as Burton break Weir casually jogs back - makes zero attempt to get involved and slow the breakaway down inspite of having a few yards start and at no point affects the game in any way.

As bad as the back four were if you let teams go right through your midfield - you will concede a lot.

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