Not enough said Moore....

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:02 pm

To be fair, I think he's criticising the players on the fringe of the first-team for not taking the opportunity to present their case for selection in the football they do play. It wouldn't surprise me if a couple have been in his ear about it. Most managers would be sensible enough to deal with that and the associated grumbles from supporters about it privately but in Hill's case it's resulted in another unprompted public relations failure.

For me, I've pretty much made my mind up on him but he has a point in that we've been playing against opponents recently who are simply better than we are. I don't feel that the squad of players we've had has been managed as well as it should've been but it's true that it's difficult to drill a defensive shape and structure when forced to make as many changes to our defensive seven as we have. He now has the ability to introduce some stability to the starting line-up for the next couple of months so he should just be quiet, dial down the rhetoric, and concentrate on instilling a style of play and a sense of coherence in the way we approach matches. If we're still making the same defensive errors and displaying the same naivety in April then I think there's only one decision to make (assuming it hasn't already been made).

Bertie Wooster
Promising
Promising
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Hill needs to go and go soon, he was the cheap option by FV but they have now had time to have a look at him and listen to Kenyon surely they can see now that he's not the future. Admittedly he was dealt some hard cards but he's improved absolutely nothing in any area of the pitch, he's had 6 months or so now surely we should be seeing some progress in a least one dept i.e. more solid defensively, more creative or combative in midfield, better pressing, move the ball quicker, quicker tempo, more goals, better set pieces - there is none of this and these are mostly players that he has signed (remember he knows his onions), all he does is slag everyone else off but he himself never makes mistakes or bad decisions - the man is an egotist.

FV should get rid now & appoint the best 'available' manager and someone with fresh new ideas, not some dinosaur just because he is Bolton born.

It's probably too late, as Blackpool are after him but FV should have been looking at getting Nathan Jones in weeks ago.

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:31 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:04 pm
Hill needs to go and go soon, he was the cheap option by FV but they have now had time to have a look at him and listen to Kenyon surely they can see now that he's not the future. Admittedly he was dealt some hard cards but he's improved absolutely nothing in any area of the pitch, he's had 6 months or so now surely we should be seeing some progress in a least one dept i.e. more solid defensively, more creative or combative in midfield, better pressing, move the ball quicker, quicker tempo, more goals, better set pieces - there is none of this and these are mostly players that he has signed (remember he knows his onions), all he does is slag everyone else off but he himself never makes mistakes or bad decisions - the man is an egotist.

FV should get rid now & appoint the best 'available' manager and someone with fresh new ideas, not some dinosaur just because he is Bolton born.

It's probably too late, as Blackpool are after him but FV should have been looking at getting Nathan Jones in weeks ago.

Nathan Jones reportedly turned down Bristol Rovers in December, with their local newspaper being quoted as follows:

"It is understood that Jones, having managed in the second tier, isn't quite ready to drop down into League One unless he feels it's to a club who can be considered Championship-ready, both on and off the field."

He won't be joining us, whether Blackpool are in for him or not.

If FV are as sensible as I hope they are, the earliest we'll change manager is this summer.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12844
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Hoboh » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:45 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:31 pm
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:04 pm
Hill needs to go and go soon, he was the cheap option by FV but they have now had time to have a look at him and listen to Kenyon surely they can see now that he's not the future. Admittedly he was dealt some hard cards but he's improved absolutely nothing in any area of the pitch, he's had 6 months or so now surely we should be seeing some progress in a least one dept i.e. more solid defensively, more creative or combative in midfield, better pressing, move the ball quicker, quicker tempo, more goals, better set pieces - there is none of this and these are mostly players that he has signed (remember he knows his onions), all he does is slag everyone else off but he himself never makes mistakes or bad decisions - the man is an egotist.

FV should get rid now & appoint the best 'available' manager and someone with fresh new ideas, not some dinosaur just because he is Bolton born.

It's probably too late, as Blackpool are after him but FV should have been looking at getting Nathan Jones in weeks ago.

Nathan Jones reportedly turned down Bristol Rovers in December, with their local newspaper being quoted as follows:

"It is understood that Jones, having managed in the second tier, isn't quite ready to drop down into League One unless he feels it's to a club who can be considered Championship-ready, both on and off the field."

He won't be joining us, whether Blackpool are in for him or not.

If FV are as sensible as I hope they are, the earliest we'll change manager is this summer.
After losing possibly a few thousand peed off punters? Hardly the way to go to set up a sustainable forward looking club is it?
Or is it FV's proverbial pot really is empty after the initial purchase and fees took their bite of the wedges of cash some banded around?

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:20 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:45 pm
nicholaldo wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:31 pm
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:04 pm
Hill needs to go and go soon, he was the cheap option by FV but they have now had time to have a look at him and listen to Kenyon surely they can see now that he's not the future. Admittedly he was dealt some hard cards but he's improved absolutely nothing in any area of the pitch, he's had 6 months or so now surely we should be seeing some progress in a least one dept i.e. more solid defensively, more creative or combative in midfield, better pressing, move the ball quicker, quicker tempo, more goals, better set pieces - there is none of this and these are mostly players that he has signed (remember he knows his onions), all he does is slag everyone else off but he himself never makes mistakes or bad decisions - the man is an egotist.

FV should get rid now & appoint the best 'available' manager and someone with fresh new ideas, not some dinosaur just because he is Bolton born.

It's probably too late, as Blackpool are after him but FV should have been looking at getting Nathan Jones in weeks ago.

Nathan Jones reportedly turned down Bristol Rovers in December, with their local newspaper being quoted as follows:

"It is understood that Jones, having managed in the second tier, isn't quite ready to drop down into League One unless he feels it's to a club who can be considered Championship-ready, both on and off the field."

He won't be joining us, whether Blackpool are in for him or not.

If FV are as sensible as I hope they are, the earliest we'll change manager is this summer.
After losing possibly a few thousand peed off punters? Hardly the way to go to set up a sustainable forward looking club is it?
Or is it FV's proverbial pot really is empty after the initial purchase and fees took their bite of the wedges of cash some banded around?

I think that's an irrational fear myself.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23358
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 pm

^^ yeah, I'm not thinking there's a bus shelter near the unibol with 2,000 fans hid behind it just waiting for Hill to go...

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12844
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Hoboh » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:43 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 pm
^^ yeah, I'm not thinking there's a bus shelter near the unibol with 2,000 fans hid behind it just waiting for Hill to go...
Now you are being silly! Okay keep Hill. keep playing the way we are until the end of the season and let's wait for record season ticket sales eh Worthy? Oh and start the season in a similar way and let's see how many pay per game fans keep turning up then chuck in there won't be many filling the away end either, lose, lose. Bad business plan!
And that's before who will give a flying about a new strip advertising Tommy's curry shop.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:15 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:43 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 pm
^^ yeah, I'm not thinking there's a bus shelter near the unibol with 2,000 fans hid behind it just waiting for Hill to go...
Now you are being silly! Okay keep Hill. keep playing the way we are until the end of the season and let's wait for record season ticket sales eh Worthy? Oh and start the season in a similar way and let's see how many pay per game fans keep turning up then chuck in there won't be many filling the away end either, lose, lose. Bad business plan!
And that's before who will give a flying about a new strip advertising Tommy's curry shop.
Honestly it makes little difference. Rest of the season is gone and whilst better performances help I don’t see it making much difference. And next year we are on league two crowds won’t be great.

I don’t rate Hill but only question now is whether there is someone better to get us promoted next season. I think there are but easy to say.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12844
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Hoboh » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:21 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:15 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:43 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 pm
^^ yeah, I'm not thinking there's a bus shelter near the unibol with 2,000 fans hid behind it just waiting for Hill to go...
Now you are being silly! Okay keep Hill. keep playing the way we are until the end of the season and let's wait for record season ticket sales eh Worthy? Oh and start the season in a similar way and let's see how many pay per game fans keep turning up then chuck in there won't be many filling the away end either, lose, lose. Bad business plan!
And that's before who will give a flying about a new strip advertising Tommy's curry shop.
Honestly it makes little difference. Rest of the season is gone and whilst better performances help I don’t see it making much difference. And next year we are on league two crowds won’t be great.

I don’t rate Hill but only question now is whether there is someone better to get us promoted next season. I think there are but easy to say.
Hope mate, Hope that's what it's about.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23358
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:28 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:43 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 pm
^^ yeah, I'm not thinking there's a bus shelter near the unibol with 2,000 fans hid behind it just waiting for Hill to go...
Now you are being silly! Okay keep Hill. keep playing the way we are until the end of the season and let's wait for record season ticket sales eh Worthy? Oh and start the season in a similar way and let's see how many pay per game fans keep turning up then chuck in there won't be many filling the away end either, lose, lose. Bad business plan!
And that's before who will give a flying about a new strip advertising Tommy's curry shop.
The average attendance in L1 has been maybe 7500 the last 10 seasons. In L2 it's 4300...so yes I expect us to lose some fans next season. Why would you think I was suggesting we'd do record season ticket sales? With or without Hill, I'm fairly sure they'll be lower than this season. Maybe Pep will fancy a new challenge with City out of Europe.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17245
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:14 pm

Is it the same 2,000 who'd definitely come back when we sacked Parkinson, and Freedman, and Megson, but didn't?

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23358
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:06 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:14 pm
Is it the same 2,000 who'd definitely come back when we sacked Parkinson, and Freedman, and Megson, but didn't?
Them's would be the ones, aye.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12844
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Hoboh » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:56 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:14 pm
Is it the same 2,000 who'd definitely come back when we sacked Parkinson, and Freedman, and Megson, but didn't?
Tongue rather in cheek, I'd suggest using Worthy's figures there's a lot more gone than that.
Even if some don't like what they term "part time fans" or "bandwagon jumpers", their cash helps keep the club going.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17245
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:11 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:56 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:14 pm
Is it the same 2,000 who'd definitely come back when we sacked Parkinson, and Freedman, and Megson, but didn't?
Tongue rather in cheek, I'd suggest using Worthy's figures there's a lot more gone than that.
Even if some don't like what they term "part time fans" or "bandwagon jumpers", their cash helps keep the club going.
But they've left because we're losing and sliding, not because (as was so often claimed) "the football is rubbish". I crunched the numbers before and Megson got the same crowds as Coyle.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12844
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Hoboh » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:35 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:11 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:56 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:14 pm
Is it the same 2,000 who'd definitely come back when we sacked Parkinson, and Freedman, and Megson, but didn't?
Tongue rather in cheek, I'd suggest using Worthy's figures there's a lot more gone than that.
Even if some don't like what they term "part time fans" or "bandwagon jumpers", their cash helps keep the club going.
But they've left because we're losing and sliding, not because (as was so often claimed) "the football is rubbish". I crunched the numbers before and Megson got the same crowds as Coyle.
Even under Megson there was some 'hope' then with his ways he started to bin that alienating fans, along came, on paper at least, someone the fans knew and to a degree admired, started ok, injected 'hope' then he too binned it and fans slowly bled away.
Supporters just don't stop supporting a team but when more of the same keeps happening, slowly, they lose the will to turn up to every game in wind and rain.
We have had poor appointments of managers since BSA and any fire in the team has been slowly extinguished and I personally think that is down to p*ss poor man management as much as anything else and I see no difference now under Hill.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17245
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:57 am

I can see all that, Hobes, fair enough. But here’s a thought. When skies are grey and the team is struggling, and I’m weighing up whether or not to go and watch us, there’s a couple of things that make me think it’s possibly not worth it. One is the team being rubbish. The other is the atmosphere being poisonous and some people being ever so keen to display their discontentment. I suspect I’m not alone in the latter. The on-pitch struggles I can cope with; I find the blind rage of fully grown men howling witless uncomprehending abuse at everyone (including, often, his own team’s supporters for not joining in with the derision) much more objectionable.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:08 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:57 am
I can see all that, Hobes, fair enough. But here’s a thought. When skies are grey and the team is struggling, and I’m weighing up whether or not to go and watch us, there’s a couple of things that make me think it’s possibly not worth it. One is the team being rubbish. The other is the atmosphere being poisonous and some people being ever so keen to display their discontentment. I suspect I’m not alone in the latter. The on-pitch struggles I can cope with; I find the blind rage of fully grown men howling witless uncomprehending abuse at everyone (including, often, his own team’s supporters for not joining in with the derision) much more objectionable.
In fairness you and I agree and are the same. I've said before that the matchday is spoiled for me because so many seem to see it as a "vent my fury at my own team and anyone who disagrees" especially I find away from home where there is a big crowd. Home games are more just grumbles.

However, I think the majority don't really care and just want a winning side with something to hope for and some success at the end of it. Reality has left football support now. I just think at every club expectations will forever be completely unreasonable. That said, Hill displays all the characteristics of a man out of his depth and struggling for oxygen. Its perhaps telling why he's only ever been any good at Rochdale....

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 17245
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:14 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:08 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:57 am
I can see all that, Hobes, fair enough. But here’s a thought. When skies are grey and the team is struggling, and I’m weighing up whether or not to go and watch us, there’s a couple of things that make me think it’s possibly not worth it. One is the team being rubbish. The other is the atmosphere being poisonous and some people being ever so keen to display their discontentment. I suspect I’m not alone in the latter. The on-pitch struggles I can cope with; I find the blind rage of fully grown men howling witless uncomprehending abuse at everyone (including, often, his own team’s supporters for not joining in with the derision) much more objectionable.
In fairness you and I agree and are the same. I've said before that the matchday is spoiled for me because so many seem to see it as a "vent my fury at my own team and anyone who disagrees" especially I find away from home where there is a big crowd. Home games are more just grumbles.

However, I think the majority don't really care and just want a winning side with something to hope for and some success at the end of it. Reality has left football support now. I just think at every club expectations will forever be completely unreasonable. That said, Hill displays all the characteristics of a man out of his depth and struggling for oxygen. Its perhaps telling why he's only ever been any good at Rochdale....
Interesting - I usually watch us at the "small crowd" games down south and in most cases, despite the on-pitch manure, the atmosphere isn't as bad as I'm led to believe (?) it gets at home games. Maybe it's the investment of time and distance, although I'd understand if that turned sour too.

I do recall - and it's topical as we're back there soon - that game at Wimbledon early in Parky's first season. When we were one down there was a bloke - sheets to the wind, obviously - who was basically "offering out" anyone who didn't join in with his barracking of Trotter, Madine, the usual suspects; confrontationally arguing with anyone trying to get behind the team. Mate of mine actually moved away (this being a terrace). And at that moment, what made me consider - albeit only briefly, for I knew he was an exception - abandoning ship was not the shit on the pitch but the shits watching it and determinedly trying to stamp on any positivity as oppositional to their worldview.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:23 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:14 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:08 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:57 am
I can see all that, Hobes, fair enough. But here’s a thought. When skies are grey and the team is struggling, and I’m weighing up whether or not to go and watch us, there’s a couple of things that make me think it’s possibly not worth it. One is the team being rubbish. The other is the atmosphere being poisonous and some people being ever so keen to display their discontentment. I suspect I’m not alone in the latter. The on-pitch struggles I can cope with; I find the blind rage of fully grown men howling witless uncomprehending abuse at everyone (including, often, his own team’s supporters for not joining in with the derision) much more objectionable.
In fairness you and I agree and are the same. I've said before that the matchday is spoiled for me because so many seem to see it as a "vent my fury at my own team and anyone who disagrees" especially I find away from home where there is a big crowd. Home games are more just grumbles.

However, I think the majority don't really care and just want a winning side with something to hope for and some success at the end of it. Reality has left football support now. I just think at every club expectations will forever be completely unreasonable. That said, Hill displays all the characteristics of a man out of his depth and struggling for oxygen. Its perhaps telling why he's only ever been any good at Rochdale....
Interesting - I usually watch us at the "small crowd" games down south and in most cases, despite the on-pitch manure, the atmosphere isn't as bad as I'm led to believe (?) it gets at home games. Maybe it's the investment of time and distance, although I'd understand if that turned sour too.

I do recall - and it's topical as we're back there soon - that game at Wimbledon early in Parky's first season. When we were one down there was a bloke - sheets to the wind, obviously - who was basically "offering out" anyone who didn't join in with his barracking of Trotter, Madine, the usual suspects; confrontationally arguing with anyone trying to get behind the team. Mate of mine actually moved away (this being a terrace). And at that moment, what made me consider - albeit only briefly, for I knew he was an exception - abandoning ship was not the shit on the pitch but the shits watching it and determinedly trying to stamp on any positivity as oppositional to their worldview.
Yeah go to a Rochdale away or something and there are lots of people who seem to think they're entitled to spoil everyone else's day by loudly booing, being abusive from the first minute etc...the thing is there have always been people like this but they used to be more the exception and almost played to their character deliberately. Now its a lot of people.

Add in the kids setting off smokebombs under the stands whilst a hundred of them film it in the toilets...you're basically creating the perfect storm for me not to enjoy it. Especially when you know, 9 times out of 10 however bad the opposition are, we're worse.

Home - where I sit at least there are very very few moaners just a few grumbles and sighs. But I think its more that we've all been going for decades and decades and don't have the energy or will to really do much else!

Harry Genshaw
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7194
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Half dead in Panama

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:04 pm

^
I've experienced similar, with increasing frequency but it's still sad to hear. I did wonder if part of it is just becoming older as well as a symptom of the modern game/fan.

We did moan at Burnden didn't we?! I can recall both Neil Whatmore and later Tony Kelly, making gestures to fans who were giving them stick.

Largely though, my formative years as a supporter throughout the 80s was like most others , with a resigned acceptance as we got worse, year after year. I don't know whether our long run in the Prem has caused it but there does seem to be some sense of entitlement amongst some of our supporters that appears to lend itself to increased aggression and general shit housery. Away games in the last few years at Blackpool, Wigan, Rochdale and Accrington have been pretty cringeworthy. Home games hadn't been a problem until last Saturday, when a young group in the North Lower, the family stand remember, started to shout abuse at Wycombes keeper. It wasn't witty or original but extremely offensive and embarrassing to everyone around there, except the pillocks that were shouting it.

I've heard suggestion that increased cocaine usage is partly responsible. No idea if that's true or not.
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests