Not enough said Moore....

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:19 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:51 pm
There are mitigating circumstances. Just like there were for PP. From what I have seen and heard though I don’t think Keith is the man for the job.

Back on Parky - I think Sharon tried to keep him but he could see where this was headed and knew he could get a gig at L1 or above. He has been proven right as well.
They definitely wanted him to stay but I think his heart deep down wouldn't have been in it. Too much had happened.

And he knew he'd be facing a huge rebuild that he probably didn't want to - having been there and done that at Bradford. Fair play to him.

The problem with Hill is that he keeps banging on about the long term and a project and that's fine. We have to think longer term. But good managers. Really, really good managers never try to excuse the short term by telling you how things will be better longer term. They find a way of making things as good as they can be now whilst in the background quietly putting building blocks in place.

irie Cee Bee
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:55 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by irie Cee Bee » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm

Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.

LeverEnd
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8174
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 pm
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm

irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.
I don't agree. I think all the signs on and off the pitch are that he's completely the wrong man for the job and the sooner he's gone the better.
Normally I'd agree with the patience argument, but FV rushed into appointing him and admitted as much. Can't afford a bad start next season, plus a swift change would give a new man chance to have a look at things before summer recruitment starts.
...

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.
I don't agree. I think all the signs on and off the pitch are that he's completely the wrong man for the job and the sooner he's gone the better.
Normally I'd agree with the patience argument, but FV rushed into appointing him and admitted as much. Can't afford a bad start next season, plus a swift change would give a new man chance to have a look at things before summer recruitment starts.
I really struggle because I find him so obnoxiously awful and have from day 1 that I fear that may cloud my judgement.

I can't remember a manager I had this reaction to where I actively disliked their personality immediately.

User avatar
Abdoulaye's Twin
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8521
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:27 pm
Location: Skye high

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.
I don't agree. I think all the signs on and off the pitch are that he's completely the wrong man for the job and the sooner he's gone the better.
Normally I'd agree with the patience argument, but FV rushed into appointing him and admitted as much. Can't afford a bad start next season, plus a swift change would give a new man chance to have a look at things before summer recruitment starts.
I really struggle because I find him so obnoxiously awful and have from day 1 that I fear that may cloud my judgement.

I can't remember a manager I had this reaction to where I actively disliked their personality immediately.
Megson comes close.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:36 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.
I don't agree. I think all the signs on and off the pitch are that he's completely the wrong man for the job and the sooner he's gone the better.
Normally I'd agree with the patience argument, but FV rushed into appointing him and admitted as much. Can't afford a bad start next season, plus a swift change would give a new man chance to have a look at things before summer recruitment starts.
I really struggle because I find him so obnoxiously awful and have from day 1 that I fear that may cloud my judgement.

I can't remember a manager I had this reaction to where I actively disliked their personality immediately.
Megson comes close.
He was dour but I'm not sure I ever disliked him that much. I disliked Coyle immensely by the end - but more that he was allowed to destroy the club and all I could do was watch his incompetence sink us.

Hill - its not that. From interview one I found him unbearable. Think I said so at the time too.

LeverEnd
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8174
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 pm
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:07 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:36 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.
I don't agree. I think all the signs on and off the pitch are that he's completely the wrong man for the job and the sooner he's gone the better.
Normally I'd agree with the patience argument, but FV rushed into appointing him and admitted as much. Can't afford a bad start next season, plus a swift change would give a new man chance to have a look at things before summer recruitment starts.
I really struggle because I find him so obnoxiously awful and have from day 1 that I fear that may cloud my judgement.

I can't remember a manager I had this reaction to where I actively disliked their personality immediately.
Megson comes close.
He was dour but I'm not sure I ever disliked him that much. I disliked Coyle immensely by the end - but more that he was allowed to destroy the club and all I could do was watch his incompetence sink us.

Hill - its not that. From interview one I found him unbearable. Think I said so at the time too.
I thought Hill sounded like a good fit based on lower league experience and working on a tight budget. Sad to admit I was totally wrong.
...

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8538
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:50 am

On paper he seemed a good fit.

In practice he has been anything but.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:01 am

LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:36 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.
I don't agree. I think all the signs on and off the pitch are that he's completely the wrong man for the job and the sooner he's gone the better.
Normally I'd agree with the patience argument, but FV rushed into appointing him and admitted as much. Can't afford a bad start next season, plus a swift change would give a new man chance to have a look at things before summer recruitment starts.
I really struggle because I find him so obnoxiously awful and have from day 1 that I fear that may cloud my judgement.

I can't remember a manager I had this reaction to where I actively disliked their personality immediately.
Megson comes close.
He was dour but I'm not sure I ever disliked him that much. I disliked Coyle immensely by the end - but more that he was allowed to destroy the club and all I could do was watch his incompetence sink us.

Hill - its not that. From interview one I found him unbearable. Think I said so at the time too.
I thought Hill sounded like a good fit based on lower league experience and working on a tight budget. Sad to admit I was totally wrong.
I thought he was a good fit too. And he probably is. My judgment is just clouded by the fact to me he's incredibly irritating.

Jugs
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1948
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:31 pm
Location: On a shelf

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Jugs » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:16 am

FV Have got a big decision to make in the summer. Can't afford another bad start. Don't want to get to end of October, out of the promotion race and deciding it's time to look for a manager to salvage that season.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23358
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:07 am

Iles reporting Hill at the moment - Hill says we can sack him tomorrow... :-)

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12844
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Hoboh » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:32 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:01 am
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:36 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.
I don't agree. I think all the signs on and off the pitch are that he's completely the wrong man for the job and the sooner he's gone the better.
Normally I'd agree with the patience argument, but FV rushed into appointing him and admitted as much. Can't afford a bad start next season, plus a swift change would give a new man chance to have a look at things before summer recruitment starts.
I really struggle because I find him so obnoxiously awful and have from day 1 that I fear that may cloud my judgement.

I can't remember a manager I had this reaction to where I actively disliked their personality immediately.
Megson comes close.
He was dour but I'm not sure I ever disliked him that much. I disliked Coyle immensely by the end - but more that he was allowed to destroy the club and all I could do was watch his incompetence sink us.

Hill - its not that. From interview one I found him unbearable. Think I said so at the time too.
I thought Hill sounded like a good fit based on lower league experience and working on a tight budget. Sad to admit I was totally wrong.
I thought he was a good fit too. And he probably is. My judgment is just clouded by the fact to me he's incredibly irritating.
Don't beat yourself up mate, for once you are in tune, frame it :D

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12844
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Hoboh » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:33 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:50 am
On paper he seemed a good fit.

In practice he has been anything but.
^^^^^^ This.

Hoboh
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 12844
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Hoboh » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:41 am

KEITH Hill can see potential pitfalls on the horizon as Wanderers prepare to host Wycombe, still licking their wounds from two successive defeats in the last week.

Forget the football hierarchy – Bolton’s four FA Cups, their 11 consecutive years of Premier League football, the superstars who have worn the white shirt – the stark reality is that they will welcome Gareth Ainsworth’s side as underdogs in their own stadium on Saturday. And for good reason.

Opinions differ on the terraces as to how culpable Boltonian Hill should be after inheriting a club fresh out of administration and still in freefall in August, one, as he rightly points out, which had hardly been pulling up trees under Phil Parkinson for two seasons prior in the Championship.


But nevertheless, terrace pride has been stung by the constant poundings taken in the last five months, and there is a sense that with survival now a distant prospect the wrong performance on Saturday could be a tipping point.

Hill may be forgiven for wishing this season away, even though it looks destined to end in relegation. Given a chance to start again in League Two – a division in which he and David Flitcroft have a very reasonable record – and build from the bottom up, many still feel he has all the right attributes to turn around a club now unrecognisable from those top flight days.

But with more than a third of it left to run, he knows only a run of results will get people back onside.

“I have been to big clubs before who are languishing in League Two, Portsmouth for example, and witnessed the home crowd turning on the home team because they were not beating a perceived lower standard club,” he told us. “There is a pressure, a massive one, whether it’s Coventry, Bolton, Portsmouth, Sunderland.

“Paul Cook went in at Pompey and got play-offs then automatic promotion, so it was a quick in and a quick out.


“If we’d have taken over this football club in the close season with basically no points deduction and a plan of spending a budget wisely on a group of players to get out of League One, it would have been our agenda. But it isn’t.


“Patience? There is none in football. But there’s only one quick fix and that’s a cheque book. And it doesn’t always work when you spend money.”

In one sense, Hill’s job is not dissimilar to the last man who managed Bolton when they fell into the bottom division for the one and only time in their history, Phil Neal.

Steady erosion through the 1980s left the Liverpool legend, then player-manager, with a near-impossible job on his hands. But an immediate promotion propelled the club back into the old Division Three and enabled Neal to pave the way for Bruce Rioch. And we all know what happened there.

The remainder of this season may be viewed as an exercise in PR. Hill may have divided supporters with a couple of comments of late – but his knowledge of life at this level of football is extensive. And he is not green enough to think the defeats will be accepted without question.

Asked what he has to do to win back some people’s faith, he said: “We’ve got to win, we’ve got to give them hope. Everybody likes a little bit of hope.

“I would speak to the Portsmouth supporters, for example, because they have been through some bad experiences watching the team lose games in League Two, being mid-table in League Two.

“It is funny, regardless of what standard of football you are playing at, supporters come back through the turnstiles when you are winning games and they are happy again.


“Football is a long journey and you have to have a certain amount of character to stand up for yourself in the hard times. It’s easy when everyone is winning and you are better than your opponents and you are automatic.

“There have been too many changes this season and I am not complaining. I am trying to configure our best options.

“We have to make fewer mistakes because they have detracted from OK performances. I don’t think there was a lot of drama in the first half against Doncaster. There was a certain amount of control but we didn’t have a release, for example Dennis Politic who can carry the ball up the pitch, but we have to take more responsibility to get closer to opponents and if we can’t, create pressure from a distance by doing our job.”
So basic week in, week out errors in positioning and marking and comic defending are not your fault Hill?

Just go and let us see the true ambitions of FV.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:53 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:32 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:01 am
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:07 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:36 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:19 pm
irie Cee Bee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Based on Hill's utterances I also don't think he is the man to take us back up next season in League 2, but he has been dealt a bad hand so its only fair that we give him an opportunity prove us wrong.
I don't agree. I think all the signs on and off the pitch are that he's completely the wrong man for the job and the sooner he's gone the better.
Normally I'd agree with the patience argument, but FV rushed into appointing him and admitted as much. Can't afford a bad start next season, plus a swift change would give a new man chance to have a look at things before summer recruitment starts.
I really struggle because I find him so obnoxiously awful and have from day 1 that I fear that may cloud my judgement.

I can't remember a manager I had this reaction to where I actively disliked their personality immediately.
Megson comes close.
He was dour but I'm not sure I ever disliked him that much. I disliked Coyle immensely by the end - but more that he was allowed to destroy the club and all I could do was watch his incompetence sink us.

Hill - its not that. From interview one I found him unbearable. Think I said so at the time too.
I thought Hill sounded like a good fit based on lower league experience and working on a tight budget. Sad to admit I was totally wrong.
I thought he was a good fit too. And he probably is. My judgment is just clouded by the fact to me he's incredibly irritating.
Don't beat yourself up mate, for once you are in tune, frame it :D
Its more a question of whether anyone we can bring in is actually better. There are a handful of good managers a tiny number of great ones and the vast vast majority are total rubbish. We've seen that down the years. After Allardyce, Megson was probably OK but a not great PR man. Sammy Lee a shocker. Coyle a disaster. Freedman unable to lift the club and became a manic depressive. Lennon a joke. Parky a solid manager who did a generally super job before Ken ruined it and now Hill...?????

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8538
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by officer_dibble » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:18 pm

We’ll have to look outside the usual pot of managers in my opinion. We need someone with new ideas not burdened by managing what will be the biggest club in that league by a mile. Job will be too much / too big for the standard pool of managers who will be linked with the job.

DJBlu
Site Admin
Posts: 3944
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:38 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by DJBlu » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:00 am

He's at it again, the U23s are getting the verbal today.

Bertie Wooster
Promising
Promising
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:28 am

He's also at it again with the supporters - KEITH Hill has asked Wanderers fans to stand by their club in its hour of need

Asked if Wanderers fans were experiencing a test of faith, he told The Bolton News: “I don’t think I agree. They (the fans) are seeing a better team beat us. People who play the game understand.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25933
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:35 am

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:28 am
He's also at it again with the supporters - KEITH Hill has asked Wanderers fans to stand by their club in its hour of need

Asked if Wanderers fans were experiencing a test of faith, he told The Bolton News: “I don’t think I agree. They (the fans) are seeing a better team beat us. People who play the game understand.
The old ‘people in football understand’ eh? Wonder where I’ve heard thay before.....

Bertie Wooster
Promising
Promising
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Not enough said Moore....

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:52 am

I also think that he's (Hill) trying to say that he's watched Leeds under Bielsa and whilst laying into our U23's saying how disappointed he is with their performances & results, he mentions that the Leeds U23's replicate & mirror the way that the Leeds 1st team play, which makes the step up more seamless.

This confuses me as our U23's do currently replicate & mirror the 1st team - they lose every week just like the 1st team.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests