New Manager Thread

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Prufrock » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:21 pm

Idk. My first instinct was to not to be too Sunderland about it. But the difference between managing a club the size of Bolton v Barrow means I'd be astonished if he didn't take it if offered.

Any manager is going to want to manage in the Premier League. The only only way to do that is to impressive enough to get another premier League job or to take a team into the premier League.

As Barrow manager there is next to zero chance of that happening. With us there's an extremely slim chance he could get us there but a pretty good chance he could get a top end championship job if he did well here. All about stepping stones.

You only need to look at Bradford to see that big crowds and big expectations don't guarantee success but this is comfortably in the top five jobs in the league above never mind the one we're in. You'd be thinking but together a team this season, try to go up and if you can then build momentum post embargo start next season well and you'd be linked with every champo job going.
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:21 pm

Of the choices I think I’d go with Evatt on balance. I don’t think Lowe and paying a big compo fee for him and his back room is way to go. Yes he’s experienced and obviously has something, but he’s done it twice with fairly well resourced teams. Not to question his ability but paying for him seems to make it expensive when everything is a gamble.

A free option like Bowyer is probably tempting to the owners, but if he was the right fit he’d be here already and I can’t help but feel again the fit isn’t right. We need to build something here. Not just scrap our way to a season of success with older experienced players a blueprint Bowyer has followed elsewhere to varying degrees of success.

Evatt seems to be a man who wants to build something. It’s purely a gut feeling based on little but he might be the gamble worth taking. A young dynamic manager with no experience but also no baggage. I don’t think there is a magic option.

If Phoenix gets his way and we end up with Sol...I genuinely fear for us next season. Tiny crowds who are disgruntled beyond belief. Don’t appoint a divisive character it’s the last thing we need now.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:12 pm

Nixon is citing £200k compo for either Evatt or Ryan Lowe. Wouldn't surprise me if that blows either out of our price range – especially Lowe who might be more attached to his backroom team: assistant Steven Schumacher, S&C chief John Lucas and analyst Jimmy Dickinson followed him from Bury. Lowe did keep a couple of locals on the Argyle staff - first-team coach and GK coach - but also turfed out the head physio before too long and brought his own man in. Like BWFCi, there's something about Lowe that just makes me think it'd be more expensive - not least that Argyle are more belligerently protecting their investment.

Evatt's team is smaller, and he's used to smaller budgets (bottom third in Division Five). Lowe has the promotions but arguably Evatt's achievement is comparable or greater - just the four players when he arrived, etc. And I do like what I hear about their style. I dunno, maybe I'm also being overly romantic - god knows we could do with a Rioch.

I understand what Pru says about "not being Sunderland" but as you also hint, this is a snakes and ladders game – or as one boardroom phrase has it, "where's the headroom": Barrow will be fiercely followed but what's the reasonable limit of their ambition? Evatt might figure that - unless they steam straight through D4, which is hardly unheard of - this might be as good as it gets, whereas we're now firmly slumbering, whatever giantness we may be able to achieve.

Then again I also keep thinking of the Cowleys, who were always destined to outgrow Lincoln but took them up to the D3 playoff fringes. Evatt won't be picturing an entire career at Barrow but will his next move be to "a Huddersfield"? Certainly he'd have to go some to make Champo owners think he's worth the risk – and he might figure us a better way up the ladder, with or without us.

It's an interesting decision for all concerned, and we'll almost certainly never know our first choice. Whatever the final choice is, I hope it works.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by The_Gun » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:44 pm

Operating with extremely limited information, I would imagine the decision for someone like Evatt would rest on reassurances regarding playing budgets. If FV can give confidence that we will retain some of our better players and be serious players in the free agent market, then Bolton looks a pretty decent option vs Barrow.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:47 pm

If we start winning football matches, it won't really matter who it is for a time...

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:58 pm

I think the point about Lowe and his budgets is something a lot of people have overlooked, especially as we don't yet know what ours might be. I'm unconvinced he's exceptional enough to warrant us going all out to bring him in, and it wouldn't make sense to me to pay so much compensation for him if others are available at a cheaper cost.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:21 pm

Looks like Campbell’s odds are dropping like a stone. I reckon few have heard same as me that he is Phoenix’s choice. What an awful appointment that would be.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by nelson66 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:52 pm

Sol bloody Campbell .... no bloody thanks :(
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:19 am

Iles says things should get moving soon, as he necks some cod liver oil...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -whittled/

Also says Evatt would cost £120,000, Lowe also be six figures and ”similar” for others in a job - including Nolan, Ricketts, Dean Holden and Sol Campbell. Personally I doubt clubs would demand compo for No.2s stepping up elsewhere but they would be within their rights to.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:00 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:19 am
Iles says things should get moving soon, as he necks some cod liver oil...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -whittled/

Also says Evatt would cost £120,000, Lowe also be six figures and ”similar” for others in a job - including Nolan, Ricketts, Dean Holden and Sol Campbell. Personally I doubt clubs would demand compo for No.2s stepping up elsewhere but they would be within their rights to.
Perhaps I'm out of touch with our current financial reality, but £120k doesn't sound that much if Evatt is identified as the right man. If we weren't able to pay that then I would be quite worried about FV's resources.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:05 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:00 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:19 am
Iles says things should get moving soon, as he necks some cod liver oil...

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -whittled/

Also says Evatt would cost £120,000, Lowe also be six figures and ”similar” for others in a job - including Nolan, Ricketts, Dean Holden and Sol Campbell. Personally I doubt clubs would demand compo for No.2s stepping up elsewhere but they would be within their rights to.
Perhaps I'm out of touch with our current financial reality, but £120k doesn't sound that much if Evatt is identified as the right man. If we weren't able to pay that then I would be quite worried about FV's resources.
120K is a lot for a league two club and of course then you've got to factor in backroom etc...

I think the current reality is that anything that costs money is a stretch. Were it not for COVID I think it would be very different. But 3 months with no income plus and no certainty on when a club like Bolton and a business like FV have with the hotel etc can start to actually earn enough to break even, as a bare minimum I think you've got to be cautious. However, at the same time appointing a manager just because they are cheap is a false economy if in 6 months you've got to fork out to sack them and appoint someone else.

It's a tough scenario - compounded by the fact that if rumours are to be believed their DoF wants one direction yet people within the FV consortium want another!

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Hoboh » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:27 am

Must be some money out there if you can pay a DOF then employ a coach so effectively pay two people to do one mans job! We ain't Barca etc awash with cash, nor do we need a yes sir forelock tugging coach at this level.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:38 am

A DoF is partly designed to save money.

At most clubs the most expensive overhead is player wages. If every new manager wants say 70% of the squad to be his own players, that’s 30% wasted, plus other asset damage as unwanted players are paid off or released or sold cheap.

Plan with a DoF - who wouldn’t normally be on as much as a manager - is that the head coach works with the players available and doesn’t demand a whole new set of toy soldiers. It avoids wastage.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:45 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:38 am
A DoF is partly designed to save money.

At most clubs the most expensive overhead is player wages. If every new manager wants say 70% of the squad to be his own players, that’s 30% wasted, plus other asset damage as unwanted players are paid off or released or sold cheap.

Plan with a DoF - who wouldn’t normally be on as much as a manager - is that the head coach works with the players available and doesn’t demand a whole new set of toy soldiers. It avoids wastage.
Indeed and when you sack manager or HC or whatever you don't need to start again. But Iles seems to suggest Bolton is a 'blend' of that and a more traditional setup. Personally I think I'd go with its confused. I reckon there are several voices in the mix confusing the situation. Kenyon, Phoenix, Mike James, Garty, Sharon........lot of chiefs.....

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:31 pm

I wasnt sure what qualified Phoenix to be a DoF in the first place. I'd be seriously questioning his judgement if he thought hiring Campbell and paying for the privilege was a good move.

Perhaps those 'who know football' (c/o P Gartside) may understand
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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:38 pm

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -approach/

No approach for Campbell according to Iles, who also says Evatt is being "very strongly backed behind the scenes".

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:17 pm

Hmm - no approach to the club; I would assume Phoenix has Sol’s number. However they appear to be assessing compo costs and that would presumably come from the club - unless we’re just going to guesstimate compo by asking salary x time left.

Piece also mentions Heckingbottom, who did a good job at Barnsley - a club who’ve been buying low (or training up) and selling high for decades. Then got chewed up and spat out by Leeds and Hibs, but he’s far from alone in that. Certainly an interesting addition to the no-compo list.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:30 pm

Yep, I forgot Heckinbottom existed! Highly regarded at Barnsley, failed where many have tried at Leeds. No idea what happened in Scotland, that is the worrying entry on his CV. Signed Josh Vela didn’t he?

Anyway I’m in the most excited by Evatt camp...Lowe sounds like a good appointment as well but not sure he fits the head coach bit?? It feels like we will know fairly soon now.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:33 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:17 pm
Hmm - no approach to the club; I would assume Phoenix has Sol’s number. However they appear to be assessing compo costs and that would presumably come from the club - unless we’re just going to guesstimate compo by asking salary x time left.

Piece also mentions Heckingbottom, who did a good job at Barnsley - a club who’ve been buying low (or training up) and selling high for decades. Then got chewed up and spat out by Leeds and Hibs, but he’s far from alone in that. Certainly an interesting addition to the no-compo list.
I saw the replies to Heckingbottom on twitter and all were negative in the extreme. But my recollection of him was he did an amazing job at Barnsley followed by struggling a bit at Leeds - with then a superb start at Hibs but alarming tail off. But I'd say he seems to me a better fit than many. Has experience. Is free. Has worked in lower leagues successfully. Hasn't had a job where you can say it was a trainwreck in any way.

I wonder what some expect. I've no strong feelings about many of the candidates, just wild hunches. Apart from Campbell. No way is that a good idea at all. But most other names mentioned - its pot luck really. Finding the one who just gets it and fits - might as well be a raffle. Because I'm unsure skill or judgement comes into it all that much. Gartside went with a hunch on Allardyce and it paid off - but remember that appointment was mainly driven by PG desperately trying to find a manager who didn't expect expensive signings.

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Re: New Manager Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:38 pm

I'd be quite pleased with Heckingbotham too. We're not going to get an experienced manager without some failure on their CV and he's allowed Leeds. Even Warnock failed there!

My preference now
Evatt
Heckingbotham
Lowe
Reid (no idea why, just think he has something about him)
Lee
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